Why more haste?

[Drhatchet]

Twilight Belt is superior from a purely DD standpoint IF you wear 4/5 af3+2 and replace the feet with any haste 2% feet only. Maintains haste cap and gives you more double attack (since tping in STR is really only effective if the mob has super high VIT). If tanking I'd just use the BB anyway because of the extra pdt.

Ues you need 26% in gear to hit 25% but you won't miss that small bit of haste unless your doing something with crazy amounts of magical haste stacked on (zerg).

That said, BB is still a sick belt, and if you have it you may as well use it.

[Cream_Soda]

Twilight Belt is superior from a purely DD standpoint IF you wear 4/5 af3+2 and replace the feet with any haste 2% feet only. Maintains haste cap and gives you more double attack (since tping in STR is really only effective if the mob has super high VIT). If tanking I'd just use the BB anyway because of the extra pdt.

No

Not at all

Enhanced DMG on kicks and 5/5 set bonus is going to beat 2% DA rather easily. Twilight is bad and anyone who uses it on monk should feel bad. This is excluding the PDT.

[Segasaturn]

While the Haste cap is 25% on gear, I'm under the impression that you would need 26% in gear to top off and be at a full 25%.....

[Cream_Soda]

While the Haste cap is 25% on gear, I'm under the impression that you would need 26% in gear to top off and be at a full 25%.....

That's true, but 25% is so cose to the cap, the last % of haste isn't 1% haste, it's like .3% haste, which is pretty minuscule.

[Cream_Soda]

Mnk/war w/ brutal, atma of apocalypse, epona's ring.

18% double attack, 18% triple attack.

Triple attack has priority over double attack (if both go to proc in the same attack round, you'll get the triple attack, but wo'nt get the double attack)

Using 100 attack rounds as an example.

Triple attack will proc 18 times.

Double attack would proc 18 times, but 18% of the time it'll be stopped by triple attack, so 18 * (.82) = an average of 14.76 DA procs.

18 TA procs at 2 extra hits per proc = 36 extra hits.
14.76 DA procs at 1 extra hit per proc = 14.76 extra hits.

100 + 36 + 14.76 = 150.76 attacks on average.

Now, let's do the same, but using 20% DA (Twilight belt).


20 extra hits, but only activates 82% of the time due to triple attack.


20 (.82) = 16.4 extra attacks. (vs 14.76 w/ 18% DA)


100 + 36 + 16.4 = 152.4 attacks on average.


152.4/150.76 = 1.09% increase in damage as compared to adding 2% DA to 0 DA and 0 TA. Essentially half the effectiveness.

The DMG+ on the kick boots themselves should give more than a 1% increase, yet alone the 5/5 set bonus on af3+2 as well as the .3% haste you're getting going from 25 to 26.


Edit: it's going to be even less than that 1% in actuality because I never accounted for kick attack damage, so the TP gain % increase and total damage % increase are going to be even less once you look at the kicks.

[Leonlionheart]

I was under the impression that Double Attack and Triple Attack could proc on both fists, but not on kick attacks.

I.E. instead of 18 additional hits in 100 attack rounds, its 36 from double attack with /war, brutal, epona's. 40 with twilight belt.

Assuming 10% proc rate from 5/5 af3+2, and a 22% Kick attack rate (Base+Merits+AF3+2 legs), that's generously giving 2 more hits per 100 attack rounds from the set bonus.

For PURE TP BUILD, Twilight+Fuma's+AF3 Head, hands, legs > BB + 5/5AF3+2. However the damage bonus on feet is going to outway that anyway, and the effect of double attack is lowered when using Atma of the Apocalypse.

Edit: I have hit 8 times in one attack round with Atma of the Apocalypse and 4/5 AF3+2 (I use the twilight belt+Fuma's to cap haste because Black Belt is too much of a time sink for a minor upgrade, if one at all when using Revenant Fists +2 and spamming Victory Smite. EVEN LESS of an upgrade considering the aftermath of Verethragna only procs on mainhand hits.) Meaning yes- TA and DA proc on both fists, but not on Kick Attacks.

[Cream_Soda]

I was under the impression that Double Attack and Triple Attack could proc on both fists, but not on kick attacks.

They can. The math is still correct however. in 100 attack rounds would just be looking at 200 instead of 100 (i do that a lot for some reason).

% wise everything would match up applying it to 200 punches instead of 100.

[Greatguardian]

As noted above, Black Belt destroys Twilight before even taking AF3+2 procs into account. Going from 4/5 to 5/5 AF3+2 is a 2% increase (3% to 5%) to proc an additional kick, not affected by DA/TA. In essence, it's +2% DA in a separate term which is not affected by the (semantics, I know) decreasing returns of standard DA.

In essence, putting absolutely everything in the favor of Twilight and only looking at attacks per round, you have:

(Triple Attack rate) + (Double Attack) + (Kick Attacks) + (Minimum Punches) + (AF3+2 proc)

(0.18)(2) + (1 - 0.18)(0.20) + (0.15) + 2 = .36 + .164 + .15 + 2 + 0.03= 2.704 attacks per round with Twilight

vs

(0.18)(2) + (1 - 0.18)(0.18) + (0.15) + 2 + 0.05 = .36 + .1476 + 0.15 + 2 + 0.05 = 2.7076 attacks per round with 5/5 AF3+2.

You're not getting more DA procs with Twilight and Fumas. You're getting fewer. And your additional attacks with AF3+2 do *More Damage* than your punches because you're wearing D+45 shoes.

I'm beating a dead horse but I figured it was worth pointing out that Twilight doesn't even have an edge in attacks per round either. Seriously, there is no reason at all for any MNK to not use a Black or Brown belt.

[SNK]

Anyone who seriously uses a Twilight Belt for ANYTHING over a Black Belt doesn't deserve to have either. Terrible suggestion to even think that Twilight has anything over Black Belt...

[Alei_Bahamut]

Anyone who seriously uses a Twilight Belt for ANYTHING over a Black Belt doesn't deserve to have either. Terrible suggestion to even think that Twilight has anything over Black Belt...

I would use twilight for WS. Double attack proc on Ascetic's Fury [yes please]! I do not have Victory Smite but I believe it works the same way with double attack proc on it raising damage to even higher levels~