Light based damage spells.

[Valkrist]

Before I say what I'm about to say, this is not meant to be a war or flame thread that's meant to say, "this job is better than my job." I know this is probably among the least important things on a WHM's mind, but the light element nukes really need an overhaul whether or not it's in terms of actual damage or what their debuff does.

In terms of actual damage, every version of Banish and the spell Holy do a pitiful amount of damage regardless of whether Afflatus Solace or Misery is going. On top of the fact that the recasts for the spells are generally 15-60~ seconds per cast for so little. It's so bad that a BLM spamming Stone I (One, not I) can probably do more damage for less MP. Even against undead these spells do amazingly low damage.

The Banish spell line was originally looked at as a way to debuff undead so that the DDs can do more damage through the special defense layer. Truth be told, the debuff that the Banish spells do are almost entirely ignored due to the fact that people view these spells as nothing more than as weak nukes. There is no form of notification that the debuff from Banish has landed or worn off for people to understand that these spells are truthfully, a Dia-like spell (that stacks with Dia, without the DoT) against undead.


So you can see merit to using Banish spells, but not to using Holy. So what does Holy bring to the table in its current form? As is, it is a very fast casting light damage (in terms of actual damage and its element being light.) Its damage is significantly augmented by a charged up Afflatus Solace, but never to the point where the spell is effective. Usable by both WHM and PLD, but neither party will use the spell as a form of damage due to its low damage and its high MP cost. It doesn't do additional damage like Banish spells to undead. Used as a yellow !! trigger in Abyssea.

It seems that the spell was designed purely as a form of damage, but the numbers it produces make it so that it's not usable by players. The only time the spell Holy does a sizable chunk of damage is when Proto-Ultima casts it, or when a colibri mimicries it back at you with its damage seemingly multiplied.

A lot of players are looking at Holy in FFXI and comparing it to Holy in FFIV or FFVII and thinking why isn't it on par with Meteor. I'm not asking for that kind of extreme change, but the spell really has fallen quite a ways with its history in previous FF games.

So unfortunately the spell Holy doesn't do much to benefit anyone aside for being used as a way to get a quick spell off for skill ups. The fact that the spell was given to PLD means that the job is meant to be able to do something with the spell as well, but unfortunately I can not see it in its current form.

Currently the spell that does the most light based damage belongs to SCH as Luminohelix. I don't know if it's intentional or not to give the job a very powerful light based nuke because it's a hybrid class that's a jack of all trades. As is, SCH is the only job that can do significant damage using light based spells because of this. Not that light based damage is something that's highly sought after, but it's a fact.


To sum things up, the Banish spell line is an undead debuff that does little damage in general. Holy is a purely offensive spell, but is only useful in monster hands. I think anything at this point to makes these spells more useful would be welcome to the job.

[Draylo]

Idk, the only issue is its resists because I've seen whms pump out 1k+ Holy. There are also a ton of matk gear that whm can obtain, the only issue is primarily macc I believe.

[Retsujo]

I never understood why Holy required so much MP to cast. I does maybe the same if not less damage than Banish III most of the time, and has one hell of a recast.

1k+Holy doesn't sound so much like good macc as it is maybe good healing numbers with Solace on. Solace only effects Holy damage, no other light-based damage spell, and your recorded healing numbers get erased with each cast. Misery increases Banish damage based on other damage dealt, though - similarly to Solace+Holy - casting a Banish spell erases that recorded damage and you have to start from scratch again.

I'm pretty sure the light-based nukes were designed just as a small damage bonus to debuff undead (for about what seems like the same duration as Flash's blindness), and not meant to cause even RDM-worthy damage. Though I gotta say, making trials that rely on light-based damage kills is a pain without any decent damaging light-based nuke spells.

[Teraniku]

I never understood why Holy required so much MP to cast. I does maybe the same if not less damage than Banish III most of the time, and has one hell of a recast.

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I always thought they balanced the mp cost of Holy with the speed of the casting.

[Bubeeky]

I always thought they balanced the mp cost of Holy with the speed of the casting.

unfortunatly no, it still costs a rediculous amount of mp, considering the crap damage it does....unless it's been powered up by a significant number of cures or w/e, it barely does a number of damage greater than the number of the mp cost :/

[Simian]

Misery+Banish - It is damage taken that augments Banish and it is only the last damage taken that is counted. Damage taken does not stack like curing does for Solace+Holy. I have hit 2K once with fully charged Solace+Holy as a Magic Burst and usually save it for a kill shot. It is a fast cast that can be started after the weapons skill animation has started and still get the MB. Solace+Holy will out damage Misery+Banish III every time.

What I have not been able to ascertain is just what is the cap for curing for Solace+Holy to get max benefit. At its inception I was hitting 704 damage and that seemed like a cap but later when it started doing over 1K routinely I figured that was some upgrade to Solace that accounted for that. Just not sure if there is a hard number cap or if the effect is 100% reliable. It is not like a TP meter we can see.

[Naria]

Long long time ago back when FFXI was only in Japan, Holy had comparable damage to the other AM, plus it instacasts. Blms hated it. It was nerfed. The Solace/Misery update was an attempt to throw whm a bone with out angering blms (one which I am very happy with). Personally, before a change to the dmg/debuff formulas I would like to see whm get Banish IV and Banishga III (I mean come on SE smn has banish IV but whm does not?)

[Malacite]

Long long time ago back when FFXI was only in Japan, Holy had comparable damage to the other AM, plus it instacasts. Blms hated it. It was nerfed. The Solace/Misery update was an attempt to throw whm a bone with out angering blms (one which I am very happy with). Personally, before a change to the dmg/debuff formulas I would like to see whm get Banish IV and Banishga III (I mean come on SE smn has banish IV but whm does not?)

O rly? Well, there are lots of things that changed before the game made it over here - for instance spells originally did not get resisted, that was a rather huge nerf to mages in general but especially BLM.


As to the OP's remarks of Banish doing crap damage, I have to disagree. It's far from spectacular, but Banish IS capable of dealing decent damage provided your divine skill is capped or near-capped.
Particularly in Abyssea, I have seem some dazzling Holy - I managed to fire one off on PLD (with Atma & Divine Emblem mind you) for nearly 2400 to a Faunus Wyvern. On WHM with Atma I tend to hit up around 800~900 average, 1600+ easily with Solace bonus.

Holy is pretty inefficient for it's MP no argument there, but the increases in MP cost for Holy II and Banish IV over their previous tiers is much, much smaller compared to elemental spells and that's nice.


I don't think that Holy should ever go back to dealing the kind of damage it used to do, just because that's not really WHM's purpose except vs Undead. It would be nice if WHM & PLD could really stick it to undead enemies with their Divine Magic, perhaps a new trait that's exclusive to them? (50+ so it can't be subbed). It's fine in the offline games, but in an MMO setting Divine Magic should only really be devasting to undead/demon mobs (basically anything undeniably evil and/or unnatural)

[Tsukino_Kaji]

WHM nuking is just where it should be, if you want more dmg, get more MAB.

[hollowsgrief]

I agree that its over due for an upgrade in divine magic teir, damage increase or not, whm is the only mage job that hasn't got any upgrades in nuke teirs, even if banish is a weak nuke, it is a nuke none the less and time for an upgrade. Banish IV, Banishga III, Banishga IV, and Holy II, help me out SE!!!! (I know Banishga IV is most likely never going to happen, but it would be nice if they did give us it!!)