Quote Originally Posted by Ravenmore View Post
Given the chance anyone will try to cheat the system. You can not say that if the cheat was more widely known that every endgame LS that did salvge wouldn't have used it.
Im glad you know anyone will cheat the system given the chance, so lets stop making it seem like only hardcore players would.

Some hardcores got banned duping Salvage/Sandworm/Nyzul and I say to you - so what? We have no statistics of exactly who got banned since only few announced publicly that they got banned. For every hardcore player that was banned, how many others simply took their bans and moved on from XI? How many were banned simply for attending a run? How many were doing Nyzul and accidentally duped the loot?

SE handled the Salvage bans poorly, period. They applied napalm to a situation simply in response to having something go under their noses for a long time. I guarantee that many casuals and hardcores were killed off alike.

Quote Originally Posted by Vagrua
I believe he/she meant to prove that players didn't need any skill to get anything accomplished back then, only cheating/taking advantage of bugs/packet injection bots/telehacking/fleehackers. These players/groups have/had quite an advantage over the community that do not use them.
This idea of needing no skill to do stuff is completely asinine. Even if Sandworm or Dark Ixion was up for grabs by anyone @75, most groups would have been thoroughly pummeled by both.

If the typical player couldn't even do ODS right, what is supposed to convince me that in a perfect world without bots that the base could have even handled these mobs? Even up to today in Abyssea with all of the buffs one could ever imagine individuals are still noobing it up on mobs.

Im not going to deny that cheating wasn't rampant but most of the "king" tier mobs were designed for a hardcore base in the first place. To a hardcore player these mobs may seem easy but lets be serious, most people are talking to talk.

Even hardcore groups had days where they noobed it up on garbage like Cerberus.