Reopened: How can Empyrean be better than Relics?

[Korpg]

Wow, can't believe that Vegetto and I agree on the same thing so much...

I am making a Ukon at the moment, and I want to make sure it is the great axe of choice for me. That is why I asked the question, I wanted to know what the absolute best is, because I don't want to have different weapons for different events or weapons I won't use 99% of the time.

[Ravenmore]

Another thing is each update since relic were interduced had weapons gaining on relics. Its about the same as being in a HNM LS, even if the one you were in didn't bot doesn't mean it to wasn't tainted by it. Sponsoring dyna wasn't that much better, you put up 1mil/500k and walk away with 3 or 4 times your investment. Players could see sponsors as being favored by the leader. So even people with the means to get a relic stayed away from them. Even sponsoring you didn't need to be at the event. Not one thing about sponsoring was hard either. Time shink does not = challenge. With emp. weapons they removed a good deal of the time sink.

[wish12oz]

I just want to point out you're the kind of player I dislike. You have no real attachment to any of these weapons or items, you just want what's best at this particular moment.

And you're the kind of person who I dislike, because you can't move on to new gear/strategies/play styles/etc/etc/etc and live in the past with your relics and kings and sky and salvage.

I don't understand why some people want so badly to believe that anyone with a relic lied cheated and stole to get it.

You seem to be unaware of this so let me spell it out for you, all those people with the awesome gear either cheat, or play with a bunch of people who cheat and profit from it. Quit deluding yourself and thinking the 1% of people with everything who don't cheat are the norm.

The gp for serpent rumors is going to take a whole month on its own. If its so easy why isn't your fishing 100 with multiple ebisu?

Who says I don't have 100 fishings and ebisus? just from checking my FFXIAH you can see I have 50 fishing and lu shangs, use that to find and check my guildwork you can find my alt and see the same can be said of her. Who says I don't have other characters that I fish on and just use my mains to get the lu shangs for the mules to get them started? And just for the record, relics were never worth the investment for me, I used my gil for other things, still do. Maybe if they become superior at 99 I will give a crap, til then, g horn mule is all I'll ever care to do.

[Gotterdammerung]

Honestly ive always hated the idea of linking a WS to a specific weapon.
It poses balance issues as well as several logistical issues. A strong ws linked only to a specific Weapon can instantly make all other weapons in that category obsolete(balance issue). This is a beast example but im a bst so meh, worked to unlock farsha but often times i cant wear farsha because i require another weapon for wat im doing. During these times im locked out of using this cloudsplitter WS i worked to unlock because its tied into farsha. Would be much more practical if i had been able to quest for cloudsplitter and use it with any axe. And at the same time still have Farsha for when i can truly focus on pure DD (logistical issue).

I think Mythic's was a good balance in that respect. The WS gave added benefits for a mythic user BUT with a quest anyone could get and use the WS. Personally tho id prefer the WS's not be tied to a weapon at all. I would rather the weapon just have really unique and strong stats and make the special WS's available to everyone. With a quest or without a quest it doesnt matter.

If empyreon WS's and relic WS's were questable like mythic WS's, then the balance issue would be solved. The super stupid easy empyreons for the most part would stop being the ultimate top #1 weapons but still maintain a value as a strong weapon. The harder to make mythics would for the most part end up the strongest and the relics would easily pass up the empyreans.

[Alienmonkey]

And you're the kind of person who I dislike, because you can't move on to new gear/strategies/play styles/etc/etc/etc and live in the past with your relics and kings and sky and salvage.



You seem to be unaware of this so let me spell it out for you, all those people with the awesome gear either cheat, or play with a bunch of people who cheat and profit from it. Quit deluding yourself and thinking the 1% of people with everything who don't cheat are the norm.



Who says I don't have 100 fishings and ebisus? just from checking my FFXIAH you can see I have 50 fishing and lu shangs, use that to find and check my guildwork you can find my alt and see the same can be said of her. Who says I don't have other characters that I fish on and just use my mains to get the lu shangs for the mules to get them started? And just for the record, relics were never worth the investment for me, I used my gil for other things, still do. Maybe if they become superior at 99 I will give a crap, til then, g horn mule is all I'll ever care to do.

Show us how easy it is. Start a new account and get a relic within a month.

[Ravenmore]

Really its not about being hard since it was never hard to make a relic, time consuming yes. If we had the system we have now for relic they would be more common. Correct me if i'm wrong but the relic data was only for the cenus was one month.

[Byrth]

I think that was relic data from the last census up until April of this year.

[Ravenmore]

I don't know on the front page it said all data collected in may. They could have just compaired the two.

[Suirieko]

I think that was relic data from the last census up until April of this year.

SE said that the data were used up until the May 10th update, so before that Dynamis overhaul update.

I think Mythic's was a good balance in that respect. The WS gave added benefits for a mythic user BUT with a quest anyone could get and use the WS. Personally tho id prefer the WS's not be tied to a weapon at all. I would rather the weapon just have really unique and strong stats and make the special WS's available to everyone. With a quest or without a quest it doesnt matter.

For the most part, ESPECIALLY the mage's, this is how the weapons for the mages should've been all about. The stats actually benefits the mages, and what they do, especially Yagrush. Who wouldn't want a WHM with permanent Divine Veil effect? It's why it's extremely popular. Basically, the mythic had the right idea: It focuses on boosting certain aspect of the jobs, but most of them barely boost it to the point where the weapon was still unremarkable, and therefore, there was little justification to obtain them other than for the sake of achievement.

The Polearm, Ryunohige, is also a great example of how it benefits the job. It takes advantage of one of the unique aspect of Dragoons (the jumps) and greatly strengthens it. Jumps for Dragoon is already strong, with spirit and soul jumps, it's even stronger. This is why Ryunohige is considered as one of the best DD mythic weapon. Even then, you cannot deny that the mythic weapon is nearly unreasonable to obtain when only extremely few of them were actually worth getting. No one does it because the events involved, hardly anyone want do nowadays since abyssea gears replaced just about most of it. This is especially true for Salvage, and because of this, the cost of Alexandrites have skyrocketed, and there's never enough in the server to justify doing any mythic to begin with.

Finally, the other biggest problem with mythic is that it requires constant group effort. You need an alliance to do Einherjar at minimum. You still need 3 people to do all 50 assaults, AND Nyzul, which takes a lot of time. You still need a decent group to do ZNMs, and be prepared to do all 3 ZNM paths, multiple times, due to how rarity of the final three trophy. And of course, you still need a group for salvage for the Alexandrites. I'm not saying mythics should be soloable (this isn't the point here), but what I'm saying is you're going to have a very hard justifying finding people that is willing to stick with you the whole way there. Here's how people are going to see this. "The gears are outdated." or "The Mythic sucks (Unless you're doing Nirvana, Ryunohige, Yagrush, or Burtgang)." or "This is very time consuming, I don't think I'm up for it", you get the point.

People say that Mythic should've been the best. I agree, but guess what. They are far from the best. Case in point: Vajra is a very unremarkable weapon for a THF, especially since it barely boosts the SATA damage.

Dynamis relic is much easier now, there's no denying that. You *could* technically solo on the currencies, and find a few people (say 6 people) to kill the NMs drops, especially Attestation and fragment. Also, to say that Relics are easier to do than Empyrean weapons, It's debatable. Look at Masamune/Caladbolg/Armageddon, at most you only need two people for this, three to do this quicker (War, nin, whm for staggering red, obviously).

And? I loved getting my Usuaken armor. It took what felt like forever. When the af3 came out, I moved to it. I'm not going to wear inferior gear just because.

What I'm attached to is the journey and time it takes to get these items, not the items themselves.

Just because I don't use Usukane anymore doesn't mean I regret the journey and the process I took to obtain it.

If there is something better than what I have, I'll make means to obtain it. New journeys for new memories.

I agree with this 100%. A lot of the gears I have, I have attachments to it because of the journey to obtain the gears, and most of them I don't even use anymore because they were replaced, and there's nothing beneficial about it anymore. For example, the recently replaced Shura Togi +1? Most people at first would think I spend an extreme amount of money on it. How much did I really spend on it? ~425K. Almost two years ago, I spent 2 weeks looking for materials and a crafter to make the cursed togi. The divine lumbers were still expensive, and it involved a some mid-leveled gear that no one ever makes. After finally getting everything I needed, I asked my crafter friend to make it, and boom, it +1'd to my and the crafter's surprise. It was even first attempt too. It sucked that I no longer use it, so now my mannequin wears it in my MH, but hey, the journey to get it made it worth while.

[Alienmonkey]

Really its not about being hard since it was never hard to make a relic, time consuming yes. If we had the system we have now for relic they would be more common. Correct me if i'm wrong but the relic data was only for the cenus was one month.

No one who couldn't make a relic before the dyna update is going to have it finished by now most likely. It's still a ton of work.