SCH adjustments & Additions

[hideka]

oh, apologies if the gigantic brick wall-o-text hurt anyones head. i tend to make big posts...

[Kasandaro]

@ kasandro :
minuo pretium was dark arts, the light arts counterpart was Pravenio decessus.
the issue with making P.D. get overwritten by cureskin, is that the effect is limited by a 45 second timer naturally, so if someone went to heal the guy you just gave a death ward to, and wiped it, it would be a total waste of a strategem and MP. I also said that there would be an internal cool down on the effect per target. gonna refrence a wow mechanic really quick here, so apologies in advance:

Fair. I'm just thinking there shouldn't be a situation where a target has both cureskin and pravenius, for balance issues - maybe stack/block them the way Refresh/Sublimation mess with each other? (Course, that means mucking about around Stoneskin itself, so I dunno.)

(I've been swiping healing mechanics I want to see from GW; you're allowed to quote WoW at me. ^^)

as to which sj sch will use: RDM is the superior choice by far. now allow us to use misery/solace, and manawall (drop it to level 50), and MABEY youd see WHM and blm as useable choices, but other then that, RDM all the way lol.

Mana Wall at 49* (50 would just taunt us). And I think one of WHM's biggest weapons in their arsenal is Solace's cureskin: being able to drop 1K+ cures, with 250+ stoneskins, every six seconds really is huge for healing. I really don't want that subbable.

My point was, as /RDM is the de facto choice, why is it an issue (not raised by you) that SCH does not get the basic enfeebles natively. I mean, yes, it'd be nice occasionally to sub something to use our epic club or staff (or dagger! Blau Dolch ftw!) skills, but really.

{different reply, cutting the "gigantic brick wall-o-text" for length}
as for incorporating the crimson grimorie into the game Try this on for size:

So some weird hybrid of BLU spells and Automaton traits? Would need hella balancing to pull off, but it would certainly be interesting. Would have to have a very bizarre set of schema to not tap dance all over the other casters' toes.

[Shinzonx]

Speaking of level 99 merits it was menchend during the festaval that they was going to add merits for level 99 after all the new job adjustments aka level ups less they just toss in some low level stuff that should of already been in the game but still sch needs something that makes it its own job to where people wants it in there party now the level caps are up people can sub sch and thats the end of the JA uses rdm can sub sch and still do the same with ligh arts make rdm buffs more powerfull blm can sub sch if they want to most likely some of them still usein /rdm can get a power boost from dark arts abilities but people probably make you heal if u /sch on any job any how so like come on give a few ending spells that make people want to invite a sch for both light and dark maybe give sch Curaja and Ultima or Mighty Guard for buffs or somethin

[hideka]

oh you would pretty much get access to every blm and whm spell except for a few choice spells. you would be limited to 12 of those spells tops, and honestly 9/10 the schemia that come out are going to be weaker then your current spell. also there was gonna be schemia specifically designed to boost diffrent spells, and stratagems, as well as statuses. so the sch more then likely would be setting proc spells in their schemia.

you would have schemia to add in MAB, MACC, elemental affinity, cure potency, enmity, conserve mp, fast cast, hell pretty much every single stat in the game. the way it would work is: Base stat enhancers (non spell or stratagem enhancement schemia) would all be accessible at level 1, and would scale up in power for each level, thus allowing them to be used in supportjobs causing you to get a MASSIVE boost to whm and blm. JA enhancers would be avalible at the level they are learned. specific spell enhancers will be rooted in one elemental tree like this for example:

Blaze Schemia:
SCH level 30
Fire affinity +1~100
STR+1-10

the blaze schemia would give 1-100 fire affinity (not like the staff affinity, read prior post) based off of your main jobs level. so a blm could sub SCH, and get the full +100 affinity at level 99.

all other spells that arent native to SCH will be learned at the origonal jobs level +10. merit spells and top tier magic is excluded from this list.

[Fetus]

The blood seed grimorie: while it is cool in its concept, and would play into the SCH plot line, it would however bring scholar FAR too close to the Redmage Cast set, the diffrences between the two jobs would be far too slim, and wouldnt bring enough to the table for SCH to really merit having the ability.

The differences between BLM/RDM/WHM/SCH are already incredibly subtle and anything short of a game-changing overhaul wouldn't "fix" that. The differences between any of these four jobs is a handful of spells and a couple job abilities. My point is, Crimson Arts doesn't make SCH any more like a RDM than Dark Arts already makes SCH like a BLM than Light Arts already makes SCH like a WHM. Crimson Arts brings just as much as Light Arts or Dark Arts does, in theory. In the utopian scenario, SCH would gain access to Cure V via Addendum: White and it already does gain access to Tier-V elemental spells via Addendum: Black. To attain complete optimization, you either pick Light or Dark Arts and access the respective addendum. Crimson Arts offers a different platform to operate on. You would gain access to enhanced stratagems, excellent new magic but lose out on Tier-V spells from Light Arts or Dark Arts. It's a fair exchange. The game is about marginal gains and balance. This is marginal and balanced.

as it stands now switching between the arts is extremely painless with 45 second strategems;

48 seconds.

were this post made...... back in 75 cap days it would have been PERFECT, however now that we are nearing 99 cap, other jobs (namingly WHM BLM) have surpassed us in our individual fields, and RDM's have surpassed everyone in terms of being a hybrid, i feel it is a bad move for SCH to take ANY steps towards becoming more like another class. at this point we need things that will bring us further into our own individual role that will help boost us further along and make us more desireable in a party.

They were never our individual fields to begin with. WHM and BLM came first. They will always be superior for doing what they were built to do. SCH will never touch that. Scholar appears to transcend these boundaries at times, but you can't judge a job on what it does only on occassion.

Unfortunately with the crimson grimorie idea, we really are not gaining anything we already did not have, and we are being moved into a nearly IDENTICAL spell list to that of a redmage, thus making us less unique. the point of me suggesting native cure potency and magic attack bonus on our arts was to help compensate for the lack of gear on those fields, as well as to boost those fields for players who sub scholar (not nearly enough do, as rdm is pretty much the ultimate magical SJ for the time being).

Again, it optimizes slightly different magic skills, grants the same bonuses/penalties as Dark/Light Arts to those respective magic skills and gives SCH the ability to augment their stratagems to become more potent at the cost of HP. Again, with the "uniqueness" issue, we're all basically the same already. There is no realy difference between BLM/RDM/WHM/SCH if you are judging how unique they are based upon their spell acquisition. The differences lay mostly with job abilities. The problem is when we use /BLM/WHM/RDM as a support job, we get very little in terms of additional job abilities. When they use /SCH as a support job, they basically get 80% of what SCH has to offer. You start giving latent Cure Potency to Light Arts and latent Magic Attack Bonus to Dark Arts, it's over. Nobody will play SCH because using /SCH as a support job will be about as good as actually having it leveled. The only thing you'd be missing is Rapture/Ebullience/Perpetuance/Immanence and faster stratagem recast timers.

animus rasa would be unrealistic due to the fact that it would either have a horribly high recast, making it into a "every once in a while spell", or have a short recast/duration causing us to have to spam the crap out of it thus turning us into good old 75 cap redmages who pretty much only spam 1-3 spells untill our brains melt.

Again, it's a balancing issue. You can't have something like Animus Rasa without balancing it. A large recast time is what balances it. People complain about the recast time on Klimaform, but you still use it don't you? It hasn't turned you into a one-trick pony, has it? No, it hasn't. But it hasn't helped you get any invites lately, has it? No, it hasn't. You wanted something that would make SCH more valued. This is a good start.

I do really enjoy your idea of building our own grimoire. It's akin to a PUP building their automaton, but at the same time it still feels novel. But I feel like it's something that should've been introduced around... level 10 when SCH first gains access to Dark/Light Arts. I'm not sure how I feel about adding things like Ancient Magic Schemas, since it just brings SCH a couple spells closer to being a BLM, despite how similar they already are and it has no real purpose for existing outside of allowing SCH to proc grellow !! inside of lolAbyssea. I'm not sure why schemas would be adding things like +STR or +DEX unless you're just dictating that they're adding that bonus because STR is affiliated with fire and DEX with thunder and INT with ice, etc.

If that's the case, every user-made Grimoire is just likely to be a Elemental Magic Grimoire that has loads of ice-magic schemas to get as much bonus INT as possible and have a relatively devastating line of magic to top it off. Not to mention any additional bonuses they end up getting from the schemas. Also, the compounding affinity would just make something like this totally broken.

As a rough draft for an idea, it's good. But to consider it for serious implementation, it needs to definitely be refined further. It should be mentioned that something like this needs to be SCH onry, obviously. Good work, though, as usual.

[turtlebuddah]

I think the addition of crimson arts would be to boost enhanseing and enfeebling skills allowing for more spells in those two catagories and boosting accuracy, potentcy, and duration of effects. this way you can change from nuke to heal to support on the fly making sch that much more versatile

[hideka]

to be completely honest, i never had a need for klimaform before AF3 feet came out. those completely changed the way i opperated my scholar in terms of nuking.

as for sch being able to add in all spells (excluding merit tier, ja tier, the solace/misery specific spells, and cure 6), that wouldnt help our current damaging capabilities at all >_> think of it: What spells dont we have that can out preform our current spells (Bliz 5 Thunder 5 fire 5 not counted, as we will learn them next update)? awnser: Ja spells and AMII spells, both of which were ineligible to be learned :P.

also my mistake for being off by THREE SECONDS on the ja recasts.

and YES, healing and nuking were ALWAYS scholars individual fields, at level 75 we could preform on PAR with both jobs as we had nearly the same exact spell lists. we LITTERALY would have all but 13 of RDM's spells on our lists, 11 of which are pretty much WORTHLESS (enII spells, gain spells, & bar spells), and all at FULL power with even more spells on our lists. we would be freaking RDM+1 V2.0 . this is 1000000000000000% redmages teritory. by making the grimorie buff both sides at the same time, while restricting us to non-add spells, you are effectively turning us into a redmage. hell even the JA makes us sound like a redmage.

litteraly, by restricting our add spells, you give us an identical spell set to redmage (when /rdm as /rdm is the only sub a scholar should ever use) that just swaps out EN1 spells for Storms, En2 spells for helicies, Refresh II for addaloquium, Gain spells for Animus spells, addle would be the only spell w/o a counterpart. seems to me like sch has the better end of the stick when it comes to spell trade offs as enspells suck, gain spells suck, refresh II and addle would be the only really outstanding benefits to being a redmage over a SCH... whoooo two whole spells and a little bit more casting speed. whoopity doo.

blm has 23 spells that we cannot access, WHM has 24 spells that we can not access. RDM has 13. i dont think i need to argue this any more as to why we shouldnt be any closer to redmages in the slightest. (this dosent count merit spells, as theyre optional)

[hideka]

oh my bad we would have En1 spells on /rdm now wouldnt we. i guess that makes SCH +6 usefull spells over RDM

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Don't mind your list, though I'd say no to the Sublimation adjustment.

[Silvers]

I think we may be looking at this wrong in a way for some improvements to SCH. I'd love for more distinction from RDM, BLM, and WHM. At the same time, we have to remember there will not be but so much because of the sub job system. SE has failed to outline SCH more with it's own unique spells. SCH's first of set unique spells was storms and klimaform. Great additions and pretty much our bread and butter (the entrée being arts and stratagems). Then there was Helixes, another good addition and people love the concept of them (more so before MV was nerfed in such a lazy and discriminating manner, it could have been handled differently). I shocked there wasn't more spells added to SCH that would be helixes, in that they require the presence of weather. Maybe we should look at Geomancer in Past FF's to design/redsign some things for SCH. As much as people would like to see Geomancer be added, to be honest it wouldn't fix so well in FF11 to most mobs in a zone hold a resistance for the type of climate/terrain they are placed (unless the job was completely reimagined, but that's another story). Here one thing off the top of my head that could be added. I'll post more later, this headache is killing me.

New job trait

Geomancy - grants additional potency to spells the same as weather (outside of what weather does 10% of the time with the obis or 100% with them).

Let me know what level you think would be best for it, if it sould be one bold number for the effect, or should it be gradually upscaled.

@Hideka very creative ideas, but some of the names could be simpler. I'm aware they fit the theme, just saying

I have a feeling SE has something in mind about spells with 2 elements with the next tier of helix spells, playing on the meaning of a "Double Helix"...