SCH adjustments & Additions

[hideka]

big no on the crimson grimorie. it essentially turns us into RDM/SCH with fusion magic and 2 more stratagems.

animus rasa would be cool, but unrealistic. also fusion magic would cause L3 Skillchains when used with each other by nature, and Fusion magic +T5 nukes would give you L2 SC's

big yes to any addoloquim boosts.

[Rambus]

big no on the crimson grimorie. it essentially turns us into RDM/SCH with fusion magic and 2 more stratagems.

animus rasa would be cool, but unrealistic. also fusion magic would cause L3 Skillchains when used with each other by nature, and Fusion magic +T5 nukes would give you L2 SC's
big yes to any addoloquim boosts.

the bold, Why?

I do like the idea of fusion magic so we can make level 2's or level 3s. Fusion magic would also allow us to SC with higher powered ws like emp ws have no level 1 property.

[Fetus]

big no on the crimson grimorie. it essentially turns us into RDM/SCH with fusion magic and 2 more stratagems.

animus rasa would be cool, but unrealistic. also fusion magic would cause L3 Skillchains when used with each other by nature, and Fusion magic +T5 nukes would give you L2 SC's

big yes to any addoloquim boosts.

You're really gonna' have to expand on why you're saying no to the introduction of Crimson Arts. You say that it turns SCH into RDM. You seem to forget that, currently, Dark Arts turns us into BLM and White Arts turns us in into WHM. Even you, in your very first post, suggested giving Dark Arts a latent Magic Attack Bonus and giving Light Arts a latent Cure Potency enhancement, thus turning SCH into BLM and WHM even more. Isn't the point of all of our wrangling to turn Scholar into the unique job it should be?

The Crimson Grimoire is a important part of the Scholar story. It's high-time that they incorporate it into the game. I expected more constructive criticism from you, Hideka.

[Pebe]

Crimson Grimoire, the end all, be all grimoire, hmmm. I like it however I think it is overpowered. Only penalizing dark and divine magic? Sch only gets like what 3 dark magic spells (Drain, Aspir, Bio(and bio II obviously)) with rdm sub, and 0 divine spells worth mentioning. Maybe if they gave sch some strong divine magic that loosing access too hurt a bit but meh. Only sad part would be the recast on aspir. Maybe also include something like: You loose 5 hp/tick for every 3 seconds you are in the Crimson Grimoire. This stacks with sublimations -hp/tick. Maybe even increase this value to 10 or 20. Which means we'd have to keep constant regen II on ourselves and have to balance hp and mp. It should also be allowed that you can die from the -hp/tick. If you are not paying attention, or get hit by an AoE that brings your hp down too low, you're dead meat!

-I liked the Auminous Rasa (or however you spell it idea) that gives 0 enmity for 30 seconds. Its like enmity douse in a different way. BUT! There recast timer has to be HUGE! Considering you can probably accession that spell. That would allow an entire blm party to go crazy. Considering they can get nukes off at 40% I wouldnt be surpirsed if each blm could get off 5 nukes under these 30 seconds. I mean it sounds cool and very useful, but the content that this will be used against has to be extremely hard. As in, if you pull hate, you just wiped the entire mage line instantly. Which sounds fun to me!

[Fetus]

Crimson Grimoire, the end all, be all grimoire, hmmm. I like it however I think it is overpowered. Only penalizing dark and divine magic? Sch only gets like what 3 dark magic spells (Drain, Aspir, Bio(and bio II obviously)) with rdm sub, and 0 divine spells worth mentioning. Maybe if they gave sch some strong divine magic that loosing access too hurt a bit but meh. Only sad part would be the recast on aspir. Maybe also include something like: You loose 5 hp/tick for every 3 seconds you are in the Crimson Grimoire. This stacks with sublimations -hp/tick. Maybe even increase this value to 10 or 20. Which means we'd have to keep constant regen II on ourselves and have to balance hp and mp. It should also be allowed that you can die from the -hp/tick. If you are not paying attention, or get hit by an AoE that brings your hp down too low, you're dead meat!

-I liked the Auminous Rasa (or however you spell it idea) that gives 0 enmity for 30 seconds. Its like enmity douse in a different way. BUT! There recast timer has to be HUGE! Considering you can probably accession that spell. That would allow an entire blm party to go crazy. Considering they can get nukes off at 40% I wouldnt be surpirsed if each blm could get off 5 nukes under these 30 seconds. I mean it sounds cool and very useful, but the content that this will be used against has to be extremely hard. As in, if you pull hate, you just wiped the entire mage line instantly. Which sounds fun to me!

Remember that Enmity Douse only affects the BLM using it. It's just another tool from SE to allow BLM to nuke without any caution involved, which is exactly what they said they were going to do. Under the effect of Animus Rasa, the target would have no enmity growth for 30 seconds. After the effect wears off, it's back to business as usual. Please note that I'm not suggesting that it also erases your enmity. So it's not quite Enmity Douse. An easy fix to your concern would be to prevent it from working in conjunction with Accession (before anyone says anything, remember that Haste doesn't stack, either) and giving it a recast time akin to Klimaform, so 3:00.

I do like the idea of the Crimson Grimoire subtly sapping your HP, but that's what I intended for the Crimson Arts stratagems to do. Check out the ideas for the new stratagems that I did come up with. Speaking of, if anyone has some ideas for the other stratagems, speak up. The theme is expending your own HP to enhance the effect of the stratagem you want to use next.

[Rambus]

I like the idea of Crimson Arts but I do think he presented it to be OP.

the thing is we need to make Manifestation to work with slow, Perpetuance with Klimaform (maybe op though) have Enhancing Magic bonus work for dark arts so aoe ice spikes is better.

maybe they can give that to us for enhancing, enfeebling only to fix those issues? i dont know

light arts have more enhancing magic skill then dark artd because af pants + relic body vs af body and????

[Fetus]

I like the idea of Crimson Arts but I do think he presented it to be OP.

the thing is we need to make Manifestation to work with slow, Perpetuance with Klimaform (maybe op though) have Enhancing Magic bonus work for dark arts so aoe ice spikes is better.

maybe they can give that to us for enhancing, enfeebling only to fix those issues? i dont know

light arts have more enhancing magic skill then dark artd because af pants + relic body vs af body and????

I'll try to incorporate your ideas. Check my post in a little bit and see if I got close to what you were thinking.

[Delvish]

I like the idea of Crimson Arts but I do think he presented it to be OP.

the thing is we need to make Manifestation to work with slow, Perpetuance with Klimaform (maybe op though) have Enhancing Magic bonus work for dark arts so aoe ice spikes is better.

maybe they can give that to us for enhancing, enfeebling only to fix those issues? i dont know

light arts have more enhancing magic skill then dark artd because af pants + relic body vs af body and????

I believe Empy head also has some Enhancing skill in it as well.

[Rambus]

it does im talking about light arts enhacning skill vs black arts, and I explained what that is.

you can get more gear then head, i have 2 macro buttons for enchacing gear now

[hideka]

You're really gonna' have to expand on why you're saying no to the introduction of Crimson Arts. You say that it turns SCH into RDM. You seem to forget that, currently, Dark Arts turns us into BLM and White Arts turns us in into WHM. Even you, in your very first post, suggested giving Dark Arts a latent Magic Attack Bonus and giving Light Arts a latent Cure Potency enhancement, thus turning SCH into BLM and WHM even more. Isn't the point of all of our wrangling to turn Scholar into the unique job it should be?

The Crimson Grimoire is a important part of the Scholar story. It's high-time that they incorporate it into the game. I expected more constructive criticism from you, Hideka.

that was my bad, i had all of 5 minutes to type out that post before i left for work. normally i do go off on huge trists as to why stuff like this is a bad or good idea.

let me be a little more specific here:
The blood seed grimorie: while it is cool in its concept, and would play into the SCH plot line, it would however bring scholar FAR too close to the Redmage Cast set, the diffrences between the two jobs would be far too slim, and wouldnt bring enough to the table for SCH to really merit having the ability.

as it stands now switching between the arts is extremely painless with 45 second strategems; were this post made...... back in 75 cap days it would have been PERFECT, however now that we are nearing 99 cap, other jobs (namingly WHM BLM) have surpassed us in our individual fields, and RDM's have surpassed everyone in terms of being a hybrid, i feel it is a bad move for SCH to take ANY steps towards becoming more like another class. at this point we need things that will bring us further into our own individual role that will help boost us further along and make us more desireable in a party.

Unfortunately with the crimson grimorie idea, we really are not gaining anything we already did not have, and we are being moved into a nearly IDENTICAL spell list to that of a redmage, thus making us less unique. the point of me suggesting native cure potency and magic attack bonus on our arts was to help compensate for the lack of gear on those fields, as well as to boost those fields for players who sub scholar (not nearly enough do, as rdm is pretty much the ultimate magical SJ for the time being).

animus rasa would be unrealistic due to the fact that it would either have a horribly high recast, making it into a "every once in a while spell", or have a short recast/duration causing us to have to spam the crap out of it thus turning us into good old 75 cap redmages who pretty much only spam 1-3 spells untill our brains melt.

fusion spells would consist of 2 elements for 1 cast, allowing you to place 3-4 elements into a SC using 2 spells resulting in a T2-T3 SC, a T3 SC is only possible when 2 forces contribute all 4 aligned elements into a SC AKA fire light wind thunder = light. so fusion > Fragmentation = Light.

as for incorporating the crimson grimorie into the game Try this on for size:


(gogo crappy MS paint demo!)

the essential logic behind this is:
you can select a light based grimorie and a dark based grimorie, and then incorporate diffrent schemia into your grimories to enhance your own HP, MP, Elemental affinity, Spell Selection, and stats.

each grimorie would have its own individual effects, the base grimories having the same effect as our current light arts and dark arts bonuses

Example:
Dark grimorie: -10% Mp costs -10% casting time/ recasting time +20% MP for white magic, +20% casting time for white magic Increases Skill Cap to B

Explanation: in this example the dark grimorie is the base dark arts grimorie.

Example 2:
Shadow Grimorie: -25% black magic MP costs Increases Dark Magic potency. Increases White Magic MP, casting and Recasting Costs by 50%, decreases potency of healing magic. Increases Skill Cap to B


there would be several variations of each grimorie, each causing dark arts and light arts to be altered in various ways, all in line with the previous examples.

Spells from WHM BLM & RDM specific trees will be added in as equippable Schemia. by equipping these spells, you are able to access them under VERRY specific conditions:

1). your level is High enough to access this Spell.
2). You have enough MP to cast the spell
3). the spell will consume 1 stratagem, but at only half the recast time ( 60 second strat recast > 30 second strat recast)
4). the bonuses from your current art do not apply to this spell (aside from skill)
5). must be under matching art.

each schemia carries a multitude of diffrent effects which are listed on the Description of the schemia.



keep in mind that these values are purely for example, and would be something to toy arround with with balance.

essentially all spells for white and black magic (excluding Ja tier, and top tier cure spells) would be avalible in schemia form. if you know the spell already from another job you can have the schemia NPC automatically insert it for you, and if you dont have the spell, you can trade a scroll for the spell to the schemia NPC and have it converted into a schemia and inserted.



if you take note in the grimorie picture, i have several things that might not make sense at first glance.

1). The bottom elemental circles are essentialy your current affinity for elements based off of currently equipped schemias. the affinity granted by this is diffrent then the affinity granted by the elemental staves. the affinity increases the base damage for any matching spells by that ammount, and reduces any incoming damage of the matching element by that ammount.

2). Light arts +25 / Dark arts + 30. these effects are granted by certian schemias when equipped. they raise the skill granted by Light arts and dark arts by the respective ammounts

3) stat + 0 / 0: the grimories and schemias will occasionally increase certian stats like HP, MP, str & INT. the first number represents your bonus under light arts, the second number represents your bonus under dark arts.


now i know that this pretty much sounds OP: keep in mind, at max SCH can add in 12 spells to their list. MAX. and they have SEVERELY limiting penalties for casting them. theyd also have to choose spells over direct arts boosting schemias or stratagem enhancing schemias.

also this whole idea was to just expand on your crimson grimorie idea ,

while this concept would make sch so we could fill a WHM or BLMs spot would be awesome and take SCH to a whole new level of complexity and planning, we would still just be cookie cuttering WHM and blm which isnt what id like to see from SCH. so id have to say i still stand firm by my previous suggestions, however.... if the two were to some how accidentialy have sex... and produce a totally awesome baby that combined both ideas into one awesome job... then i wouldnt complain in the slightest.