Why Make Jobs useless ?

[Raxiaz]

Yeah, I don't know how the hell you're not going to abyssea. Seems like every EXP group I go to has at least one SMN.

[Raxiaz]

4k+ damage = faster kills = faster EXP.

Buffing the whole party at a time makes the fights go smoother.

Do you really think that post was necessary?

[Neonii]

I was more speaking of events and Content geared towards collecting Atma and cool gear ect. On my server even Pick-Up groups will rarely invite a SMN to any NM type group. And as for unwritten rules has consideration been given to the fact that they create the very folks who don't know their job often complained about? By accepting only particular jobs newer folks may feel compelled to go level those very jobs with out the time and support needed to really master a job. Maybe it would be better to welcome all jobs and allow players to put their best job forward. For example, I am a very inexperienced white mage but I can hold my own with any summoner requirements.

[Ravenmore]

I was more speaking of events and Content geared towards collecting Atma and cool gear ect. On my server even Pick-Up groups will rarely invite a SMN to any NM type group. And as for unwritten rules has consideration been given to the fact that they create the very folks who don't know their job often complained about? By accepting only particular jobs newer folks may feel compelled to go level those very jobs with out the time and support needed to really master a job. Maybe it would be better to welcome all jobs and allow players to put their best job forward. For example, I am a very inexperienced white mage but I can hold my own with any summoner requirements.

Again find better friends. All the atma's can be killed duo, nothing needs a full LS. Why bother with pick up groups you get better results with out them.

[Neonii]

Again find better friends. All the atma's can be killed duo, nothing needs a full LS. Why bother with pick up groups you get better results with out them.

Thank you for the suggestion it is much appreciated. Now I will answer to your question. What I did was finish leveling my sub job (whm) for events. The result was a quick burnout. I am a much better whm these days but what it took to get there ruined it for me (talk about crash and burn). As to why I was joining pick up groups the answer would be to complete armor sets. Now the issue for me would more to make friends who are willing to work together. The dynamics between the people on my friend list would derail this thread so I will not go into it.

Now I have a question for Spartos (reference post #31). Did the "3 obvious examples" involve the best drops in the game at the time? It's an honest question I have been around a little over a year so I missed a lot. My concern is the with the caliber of drops in Abyssea, such a limited number of appropriate jobs limits the fun factor.

[Ravenmore]

Thank you for the suggestion it is much appreciated. Now I will answer to your question. What I did was finish leveling my sub job (whm) for events. The result was a quick burnout. I am a much better whm these days but what it took to get there ruined it for me (talk about crash and burn). As to why I was joining pick up groups the answer would be to complete armor sets. Now the issue for me would more to make friends who are willing to work together. The dynamics between the people on my friend list would derail this thread so I will not go into it.

Now I have a question for Spartos (reference post #31). Did the "3 obvious examples" involve the best drops in the game at the time? It is a earnest question I only been around a little over a year so I really want to know.
My concern is the caliber of drops in Abyssea locking folks onto jobs they do not enjoy or even understand in order to get the yummy treats. Abyssea has a lot of content to have to feel like one is doing chores to access and complete.

The game is far more forgiving now then it has been at any other point in time. All the seal mobs that epople prefer outside of bodies are retarded easy to duo. Hell I kill sirrush with my rdm friend the other day on blu I coulda just soloed it he didnt have to heal me once no procs on half of the fights got 4 seals he needed in little under a hour. Could have been done faster if we had gotten more procs but really whats the rush.

[Byrth]

Now I have a question for Spartos (reference post #31). Did the "3 obvious examples" involve the best drops in the game at the time? It is a earnest question I only been around a little over a year so I really want to know.
My concern is the caliber of drops in Abyssea locking folks onto jobs they do not enjoy or even understand in order to get the yummy treats. Abyssea has a lot of content to have to feel like one is doing chores to access and complete.

Event structure always determines which jobs are optimal for events. The closer to optimal you are, the better you do the event and the quicker you get geared. Some events were almost impossible if you did not have the correct jobs (like Salvage). If you brought too many inefficient jobs to Salvage, you either squander the few cells that you get or spend too long farming cells to gear people.

That said, people are free to bring Summoners to Abyssea and not grellow proc as often. They're free to come Dragoon + Dark Knight + Ninja instead of Warrior + Ninja. How you play is going to be dictated by the other people in the group. If you find other people that are fine with you going whatever job you prefer, and you're fine with them going whatever job they prefer, then you're free to play that way and collect shinies half as fast.

I guess these are kind of just different ways to play. Some people really enjoy being good at a specific job, and some people really enjoy being part of a good team. If you're the second category, you come whatever job is needed and play whatever role you can to your maximum ability. If you're the first category, you generally spend a lot of time wishing you were on a different job.

Take Salvage as an example of an event that's unforgiving to inefficiency. You're given a certain number of "cells" to unlock abilities/spells/equipment/stats/etc. and have to distribute them most efficiently. I had way more fun in Salvage than any other FFXI event, and I had to play RDM (my least favorite job) at least half the runs.

[DebbieGibson]

4k+ damage = faster kills = faster EXP.

Buffing the whole party at a time makes the fights go smoother.

but not really since it is 99% of the time never needed so whats the point of having smn there?
downsides of having smn:

1)you might have to share the drops with them. Since they made no meaningful contribution because you would have won anyway, you're essentially giving away your drops.

2) you may have to wait on them to show up delaying your progress

upsides of having a smn:

1) you kill faster, but who cares since you were gonna kill it anyway. You could kill faster with a lv50rdm too, doesn't mean you should bring them.

Extra bodies that don't make or break a fight are a negative effect overall.

[Neonii]

but not really since it is 99% of the time never needed so whats the point of having smn there?
downsides of having smn:

1)you might have to share the drops with them. Since they made no meaningful contribution because you would have won anyway, you're essentially giving away your drops.

2) you may have to wait on them to show up delaying your progress

upsides of having a smn:

1) you kill faster, but who cares since you were gonna kill it anyway. You could kill faster with a lv50rdm too, doesn't mean you should bring them.

Extra bodies that don't make or break a fight are a negative effect overall.

This is an excellent illustration of the point of this discussion thank you for posting . Seeing how unpopular jobs have to accept the collective attitude of fellow players, why not add some mechanism to allow all jobs to have an equal shot at abysesea? For example, why not add to existing ways to trigger weakness? Take blue proc why not add a corresponding bp as a way of triggering it? maybe Chaotic Strike during blunt time. Specific magical bp could address yellow. That way when a SMN is planning to kite Tonberry Lieje for the sash they could plan to go during blunt time. I only added examples for smn as I am most familiar with it but im sure the other unpopular jobs could have abyssea specific tweaks also. IMO since Abyssea in particular has the current best gear in the game its only fair to empower all jobs to form their own static and low man groups. Abyssea should be a fun playground vs a chore to get completed on a job one is not good at or does not enjoy.

[Aurara]

4k+ damage = faster kills = faster EXP.

Buffing the whole party at a time makes the fights go smoother.

Do you really think that post was necessary?

brd cor whm DDx3, kills faster than a pt of:

brd cor whm smn DDx2