Extend Time Menu

[RAIST]

You have actually jumped around on issues concerning Visitant Status, and ultimately shifted it to a debate completely different from what it originally was.

You've stated that you 100% supported the notion that you should not be able to redeem a stone for partial credit because they've hit the cap.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post126898

Originally Posted by Raxiaz
It is restrictive, you can only have so many stones on you at once.

I understand the reasoning behind it, but that just makes me wish it didn't exist at all. Those unknowing of how the "Extend time" function work could suffer. I myself only got 17 minutes out of a stone that would've been 42 minutes. That's less than half of the stone's worth.

I just don't think it's right to allow that option when it's not really doing anything in the first place. If someone wanted to extend time, they'd want or need to do it at the start of abyssea. In other words, their lights aren't built yet, and they can exit and re-enter to turn in stones.

No point in turning in stones if it's going to return less than 50% of its value, IMO.

I agree with this post 100%.

In a previous thread, you more or less had the same message, and even called it a bug:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post123252

Originally Posted by danz
when you request additional time on a visitant status NPC in abyssea, it doesn't have options to choose how many stones, just 1,

and when you do submit that stone for extended time, it says it sets your time to 120 min, however. this isn't what is doing.

1. it eats ALL of your stones. so if you have 4, it doesn't eat just 1. it eats all 4

2. it doesn't even extend the time. requested to add time @37 min, after, was still the same

big issue here... how this even passed QC is beyond me.

Yeah that menu has been bugged for eternity.

If you go above 120 minutes, then down below 120 minutes, trying to add time will result in you getting 0 extra minutes. That's either seriously bugged, or a massively retarded design. I choose to give the devs the benefit of a doubt and say it's bugged.

This was debunked (not only by my post I might add) and it was shown NOT to be a bug (I have actually seena moderator respond to that effect). Then, a debate insued because you later start calling it retarded and arguing you never claimed it was a bug, when in fact you did twice in one post:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post123620

Originally Posted by RAIST
And that is how the stones have always worked, as I mentioned above. You can only request a total of 120 minutes per visit. You requested your saved 117 minutes when you first went in, leaving you with only 3 more minutes to request. When you used your stone, it capped out at the 120 minutes of requested time, giving you the balance of 3 minutes.

What you needed to do was exit the maw and come back in (resetting your request cap to 120 again), request your saved ~34 minutes, then use your remaining stone to tack on the 30 minutes (or more if you had the abyssites granting bonus minutes).

Edit: Details from the wiki on the main Abyssea page:

Yeah it's always been that way, but what we are saying is that it is RETARDED.

eventually you finally admit that you don't think it is a bug, but then you start saying that it serves no purpose if it is not going to allow you to trade a stone and not get the full value of that stone:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post123826

Originally Posted by RAIST
Ok, there you go again....missing the point. A bug implies an error in the programming. There IS NO ERROR -- that is how it is designed to function.
Originally Posted by Raksha
I can't speak for the OP, but I don't think it's bugged, I think it's retardedly designed.
IF you don't like the way they choose to mange your time, that is a disagreement with the design,
Originally Posted by Raksha
I can't speak for the OP, but I don't think it's bugged, I think it's retardedly designed.
but it is not an error in the coding--which is what you are saying when you say it is bugged, that there is a glitch in the code.
Originally Posted by Raksha
I can't speak for the OP, but I don't think it's bugged, I think it's retardedly designed.
Sauying it is retarded is completely different--that means you don't like the way they designed it to work, not that it is bugged...simply you don't like the way it works. But it is in fact behaving as it was coded to do.
Originally Posted by Raksha
I can't speak for the OP, but I don't think it's bugged, I think it's retardedly designed.
Even in the original release we were told you could not extend your stay beyond 120 minutes with stones, so even though those links weren't direct quotes from SE and written from players' experiences--we WERE told by SE there was a limit to how much time could be requested. It is even mentioned in SE's play guide hosted on their servers:
Originally Posted by Raksha
Even if that were an official SE quote,... it still wouldn't make the system any less retarded.
Shortly after it's release, it was well documented that if you tried to extend your time past 120 minutes of added time you would loose the excess minutes on your stones,
It was retarded back then too, things don't become less retarded the older they are.



since there is a cap to how much time you can add from any method other than time from chests. This is not new info, and is not a bug--it was intentionally designed that way.
Originally Posted by Raksha
Yeah it's always been that way, but what we are saying is that it is RETARDED.

Expending a stone to give you +0 minutes is retarded design. If i'm down to 10 minutes, and I want to add stones back up to 120 minutes, that menu should allow me to.

As it is currently coded, that menu serves no purpose.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post123936
<partial quote, as I dind't realize how long this is getting>

The menu, as it exists now, serves no purpose in-game.

If you go in with less than 120 minutes saved up, and 1 or more stones, you add stones to build up your time to 120 (or close to 120 if you don't want to go over). USING THE 'EXTEND TIME' MENU AFTER THIS POINT RESULTS IN WASTED STONES.

If you go in with less than 120 minutes saved up, and 0 stones, you set your remaning time and then you're done. YOU CAN'T USE THE 'EXTEND TIME' MENU UNDER THIS SCENARIO BECAUSE YOU HAVE 0 STONES.

the only potential use I see in this entire menu, is if you somehow don't add enough stones when you first get status, you can immediately add another stone to get up to 120 instead of having to zone out and back in. This almost never happens, and even if it did, you could just zone out and back in again, oh and If you get TEs that push you over 120 minutes, THE 'EXTEND TIME' MENU NO LONGER DOES YOU ANY GOOD.

So... for quite a while there, you WERE arguing against how the menu allows you to turn in stones and not get the full value because of the cap. At one point, you were even claiming that you could turn in stones and get 0 time from them. That was later proven not to be the case. This is somthing that went ont for several threads before this one, which you created as an extension of that debate.

When you STARTED this additional thread to continue debating it, you even opened up with this issue as part of that initial post:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post128912

IF I CAN USE A FRAGMENT OF A TRAVERSER STONE TO EXTEND MY TIME, WHY CANT I USE AN ENTIRE STONE?

Yet, just a few lines later in that SAME POST, you claim that this is not part of your issue at all, but rather that you can't spend as many stones as you wnat regardless--and yet, you've KEPT coming back and complaining about how you can spend a stone and only get partial credit for it:

P.S. to people who think I'm whining about losing a stone, I'm not. I have over 400 stones and don't give a damn if I lose 15 minutes of one of them. What I am arguing is that I should be able to use a stone to extend my time while inside, NO MATTER HOW LONG IVE ALREADY BEEN INSIDE.

You seem to be bouncing back and forth over the issue of loosing full credit on a stone because of the cap. If it is not an issue for you...then why did you keep bringing it up in your arguments. You've accused me of using straw man arguments...I think it is more you who has been presenting the distracting arguments all along and caused the debate to evolve into something entirely different. All we (not just me, but others in the threads as well, and yet you keep attacking ME) have been trying to do is respond to the arguments presented by others. YOU have been the one that has shifted the arguments in the threads with your debate. I've just been trying to present the info as it relates to those arguments that YOU put forth.

BTW....the original issue was simple that someone was reporting a bug becuase they went back to add time after being in Abyssea for a while and they didn't get full credit for that stone because redeeming that stone exceeded the initial cap of 120 minutes and got truncated. Another player not very familiar with how it works tried to report it as a bug again, and after ONE POST detailing how it works, providing links the same source information to support it...it was closed as it was indeed shown not to be a bug:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...-working-right

Thank you Cyrusskorrey for your report!

What you have described in your report has been determined to be not a bug, as also described in detail by RAIST. I can understand how the situation would be confusing though! This has been reported to the developers as well, so if any changes or updates are made to make this less confusing for others, they will be announced here on the forums and/or on www.PlayOnline.com.

Thanks again RAIST for your input and helping out others ^_^

SQUARE ENIX MODERATOR

This is what more or less SHOULD have happened where all this began, but YOU watned to shift it to go elswhere.

Your position over whether or not there should be a cap at all on obtaining time is a completely different issue, and should have never been combined in response to the OP of a thread that was stating it was a bug--one such thread was even in the Game Bugs section, and not General. It has confused the debate, causing multiple debates to take place, creating confusion, and essentially making us both look like @$$3$ in the end. THIS is what a strawman does.....

So, in the spirit of what you have claimed you would do and not respond to the strawmen anymore, I will say the same and actually back out of this debate. As you said, I haven't been presenting anything new. The reason is there is no other way to present it. The system works a certain way for a certain reason. It has been linked to lore and previous systems that were likely the foundation for how this system was designed--it has all been discussed in extensive detail. So there is really nothing more that can be presented to go against your strawman, so there really is nothing more to do but let the record stand.

[Raksha]

You have actually jumped around on issues concerning Visitant Status, and ultimately shifted it to a debate completely different from what it originally was.

You've stated that you 100% supported the notion that you should not be able to redeem a stone for partial credit because they've hit the cap.

Perhaps I should've said I 99% support this post. Anyway, you got me there. I'll be more careful with my replies from now on. The point I was trying to make is that it's retarded that the extend time menu doesn't work the way everyone thought it did the first time they used it.

In a previous thread, you more or less had the same message, and even called it a bug:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post123252

This was debunked (not only by my post I might add) and it was shown NOT to be a bug (I have actually seena moderator respond to that effect). Then, a debate insued because you later start calling it retarded and arguing you never claimed it was a bug, when in fact you did twice in one post:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post123620

eventually you finally admit that you don't think it is a bug,

I spent that entire thread trying to correct your misunderstanding of my position. IN MY THIRD POST I said that I didn't think it was a bug, just that it was retardedly designed. Your failure to understand is what lead to the bickering in that entire thread which culminated in me clarifying my position so as to alleviate the confusion.

but then you start saying that it serves no purpose if it is not going to allow you to trade a stone and not get the full value of that stone:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post123826

You're arguing things which i've already admitted that I was wrong about. This wasn't even my point to begin with, let me quote my first post:

If you go above 120 minutes, then down below 120 minutes, trying to add time will result in you getting 0 extra minutes. That's either seriously bugged, or a massively retarded design. I choose to give the devs the benefit of a doubt and say it's bugged.

Now ignoring the part about whether or not it is bugged, and whether or not it actually takes your stone (2 things i've addressed already) The point i've been making this entire time still remains undisputed, if you go above 120 minutes, then below 120 minutes, the extend time menu becomes totally useless.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post123936
<partial quote, as I dind't realize how long this is getting>


So... for quite a while there, you WERE arguing against how the menu allows you to turn in stones and not get the full value because of the cap. At one point, you were even claiming that you could turn in stones and get 0 time from them. That was later proven not to be the case. This is somthing that went ont for several threads before this one, which you created as an extension of that debate.

Yep I was wrong about the +0 time thing, I flat out admit it.

When you STARTED this additional thread to continue debating it, you even opened up with this issue as part of that initial post:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post128912

Here I was responding to your nonsense lore argument. The only reason I brought it up was to point out how absurd your logic was. This isn't part of my argument, it was a response to yours.

Yet, just a few lines later in that SAME POST, you claim that this is not part of your issue at all, but rather that you can't spend as many stones as you wnat regardless

I was responding to ppl in the second thread who kept saying 'suck less' or 'stop whining because you lost a stone'. My point this whole time HAS BEEN that I should be able to extend my time, as long as i'm under 120 minutes, NO MATTER HOW LONG I'VE ALREADY BEEN INSIDE.

--and yet, you've KEPT coming back and complaining about how you can spend a stone and only get partial credit for it:

No I haven't. The only time i've come close to this is the +0 time thing, which was cleared up in the second thread. You keep harping on this.

You seem to be bouncing back and forth over the issue of loosing full credit on a stone because of the cap.

I said in the op of this thread that I don't care about losing a few minutes of a stone. i'm sorry if you were confused by this. I often 'waste' stones by capping my time to 120 because I have more than I know what to do with.

If it is not an issue for you...then why did you keep bringing it up in your arguments.

I don't. I havent used the '+0 time' argument since the 2nd thread.

You've accused me of using straw man arguments...I think it is more you who has been presenting the distracting arguments all along and caused the debate to evolve into something entirely different.

i've been arguing this whole time that the menu is retardedly designed and should be change to work the way everyone thinks it should work.

All we (not just me, but others in the threads as well, and yet you keep attacking ME) have been trying to do is respond to the arguments presented by others. YOU have been the one that has shifted the arguments in the threads with your debate.

The responders in this thread are either saying that i'm wasting my time arguing about it, since no one cares about this, or they are making your 'lore' argument. I've responded to their arguments with counterarguments, all the while reiterating my position that the menu is useless and needs to be changed.

I've just been trying to present the info as it relates to those arguments that YOU put forth.

So far all i've seen is you repeating the same 'learn to do math' or 'lore' or 'design aesthetics' arguments. You've offerend no gameplay arguments as to why the menu shouldn't be changed.

BTW....the original issue was simple that someone was reporting a bug becuase they went back to add time after being in Abyssea for a while and they didn't get full credit for that stone because redeeming that stone exceeded the initial cap of 120 minutes and got truncated. Another player not very familiar with how it works tried to report it as a bug again, and after ONE POST detailing how it works, providing links the same source information to support it...it was closed as it was indeed shown not to be a bug:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...-working-right

I'm not arguing it was a bug, i'm arguing that it is useless.

This is what more or less SHOULD have happened where all this began, but YOU watned to shift it to go elswhere.

Yeah it kind of snowballed, if I could go back and clear up this confusion I would, but c'est la vie.

Your position over whether or not there should be a cap at all on obtaining time is a completely different issue, and should have never been combined in response to the OP of a thread that was stating it was a bug

I use the term 'bug' in a non-pedantic sense. Yes it caused confusion, and I've apologized and attempted to straighten it out, you keep harping on this though when I thought we'd moved on.

--one such thread was even in the Game Bugs section, and not General. It has confused the debate, causing multiple debates to take place, creating confusion, and essentially making us both look like @$$3$ in the end. THIS is what a strawman does.....

I didn't think It was worth making my own thread about, so I responded in the 'bug' thread. It got out of control from there.

So, in the spirit of what you have claimed you would do and not respond to the strawmen anymore, I will say the same and actually back out of this debate. As you said, I haven't been presenting anything new. The reason is there is no other way to present it. The system works a certain way for a certain reason. It has been linked to lore and previous systems that were likely the foundation for how this system was designed--it has all been discussed in extensive detail. So there is really nothing more that can be presented to go against your strawman, so there really is nothing more to do but let the record stand.

You've actually redeemed yourself in my eyes, you've pointed out mistakes that I've made that I didn't even realize, and shown me that I'm not a very good debater. I just wish we didn't have to go through this whole rigamarole to get to this point.

FWIW I apologize for being a dick.

/bro-hugs?