Ideas for Paladin Modification

[DamonWolfe]

A lot of people talk about changing Enmity and other such things, but I had a long discussion on another board about this and a few things I will be listed seem to make the most sense, while not giving too much of a heavy change to the game (Unless I note so otherwise.)

Note - This is about changing existing traits/abilities, etc not adding new ones (for the most part)

1) Change Job Ability - "Cover" Into a Job Trait. (and Add Cover II or even Cover III as well)

= If the paladin stands infront of a party member who has main hate (most hate), they will cover that party member.

Each increase in the trait (II and III) will increase the chance of a paladin blocking with a shield while covering.

2) Change Job Trait - "Defense Bonus" to "Damage Reduction"

= A increase and defense does not seem to make much change as the levels go higher in a sense of reducing damage, however turning the traits into Damage Reduction, lets say. "Damage Reduction I - V" Gives a 5% gain each time for lets say lv 99 with 25% dmg reduction. This would allow paladin to take more hits and increase it's use without making other jobs less useful or over powering pld as a DD.

3) Updating Job Trait "Shield Mastery"

= A job that is the main user for shields should have a bit more of a boost to using a shield, in contrast to wanting to dual wield as a /nin or /dnc

For example, lets say it should increase the damage rate when using Shield Bash (which would make it a bit more useful overall) so there is currently 3 Shield Mastery traits, so lets do the dmg increase by 25% with each trait, so lets say Shield bash does 30 dmg at lv 90 + 4 traits = +75% so +22 dmg making it do 55 dmg with shield bash

Or if not a damage increase, than with each trait, the stun effect last longer?


NOW, we go on to minor adds to the job.

1) Add Job Trait - "Counter" (Or something similiar)

= I know this thing is big for Monk, but hear me out. A paladin is a Shield and sword combo class. So we can give it a Counter like trait, where if you successfully block with a shield you have a 5-10% chance of countering with your weapon (Sword in this case) But the trait can only work if you have a shield.

2) A job trait or ability (Preferable a Trait) that allows more damage when using a Sword.

= My logic on this is that Paladin is a A+ using a Sword, while like Red Mage and Blue Mage are lower than that (even if slightly so). They should be more potent when using it, So what about something like

"When using a Sword and Shield, increase damage to the main hand weapon. (Similiar to how Fencer increases damage if a Warrior using a one handed weapon, but it has to be a Shield and Sword combo for paladin)


These are all my suggestions and fixes for job. What you guys think?

[Zumi]

Paladins also need a reliable interrupt. Shield bash on a 5 min cool down isn't too useful. It should be changed to like 10 or 15 sec to be more in line with head butt. Or have a whole new JA together thats low damage but interrupts the mob. Part of tanking is stopping devastating moves from your enemies so that's why I think PLD needs it.

[Cream_Soda]

These are all my suggestions and fixes for job. What you guys think?

It wouldn't fix the job at all. If I as a Monk, for example, am capable of dealing a ton of damage, and tanking w/o even a worry of dying, even if you could cover me for every attack, why would it matter? I was in no danger of dying to begin with.


As long as DDs can hold hate and not be in danger of death, Paladin is not going to be needed.

[DamonWolfe]

It wouldn't fix the job at all. If I as a Monk, for example, am capable of dealing a ton of damage, and tanking w/o even a worry of dying, even if you could cover me for every attack, why would it matter? I was in no danger of dying to begin with.


As long as DDs can hold hate and not be in danger of death, Paladin is not going to be needed.

Is that anywhere in the game, or just in Abyssea?

[Cream_Soda]

Is that anywhere in the game, or just in Abyssea?

Anywhere in the game.

People were already moving away from pld tanks when the cap was still 75 prior to abyssea.

It's just that people used paladin as a "Safety net" since you really needed DD tanks that knew what they were doing. At this time, in abyssea, now pretty much any DD can tank, but back in the day, you needed someone who really stood out, or pld was going to be the safety net.

Aka if you have a good DD tank, abyssea or no, no pld required.

If you have a bad DD tank who relies on abyssea to be able to tank, then yea abyssea only.

[DreamerGuyAliquis]

I've always thought it would be interesting and fun if PLD would get a Trait that would allow it to use Shields with Great Swords.
C'mon, Great Swords really don't have a main job.
Yes, yes, DRK and WAR use them.... yeah not really! DRK is all about Scythes, and they are vehement about it as people freak out when a PLD isn't "SWORD + BOARD or GTFO" (even when GS, club, and staff are already situationally useful.)
Giving PLDs the option of great sword, and letting them retain Shield could help give PLDs some DD + defensive options to employ in abyssea and in future areas. Traits, job ability and or Stances could be employed to balance this

-STANCES- (like NIN, WHM and SAM employ to their jobs) would be a great addition to PLD.
A way for PLD to Maximize Defense, Healing Magic, etc, while actually tanking and then a way for them to Maximize their offense to regain enmity when the mob is looking at the MNKs, i mean DDs.

Why not give PLD some Holy Destructive power? if a MNK can be the be all end all Tank + DD... may as well buff PLD up and give it some more relevance.

[DamonWolfe]

If you look at Final Fantasy History

Paladin/Knight always been a big damage hitter. The problem with that in this game is that you can't give it good defense skills and make it do decent damage too.

If you look at the current AF3 set for pld at +1 or +2 they do get a decent boost to attack and str. I felt that Paladin should get a damage increase but how to put that I dunno, at least not without making paladin over powered in contrast to other DD jobs, but I would think since this game is a PvE, there shouldn't be a issue with that change in a sense of balance (This is why PvP in this game isn't balanced, cause it wasn't designed for balanced pvp.)

I'd really like to see paladin get back in it's original limelight. And I wouldn't care about anyone getting Q_Q about their "awesome" Sam, Drg, War, Mnk etc getting a bit less awesome compared to Paladin if they update it to do way more damage.

[DreamerGuyAliquis]

Hey, MNK already gets "good defense skills and does {ridiculous} damage", so I say PLD should 'go for it'.
Inclusion of some 'Stances' along with reworking Cover, Shield Bash, etc would help balance this.

Perhaps such a stance would lend some of these 'rework' ideas? A Stance that augments Cover, shield Bash, Cure potency based off of enimity, etc. to maximize tanking. And then an opposite stance to augment Sword things, Divine Magic/flash?

[Bilonn]

Hey, MNK already gets "good defense skills and does {ridiculous} damage", so I say PLD should 'go for it'.
Inclusion of some 'Stances' along with reworking Cover, Shield Bash, etc would help balance this.

Perhaps such a stance would lend some of these 'rework' ideas? A Stance that augments Cover, shield Bash, Cure potency based off of enimity, etc. to maximize tanking. And then an opposite stance to augment Sword things, Divine Magic/flash?

Right. Do it like the Samurai job's Hasso and Seigan.

Make Paladin have three 'stances', each with a 1 minute recast, 5 minute duration, and make any one overwrite all three (so only one can be active at any time)
---
*Cover Stance: (Duration 5m, Recast 1m, Overwrites Cover Stance, Shield Stance, Crusade Stance)
Slow +10%, Attack -5%, Damage Reduction 10%, Healing Magic +15%, Spell Interuption +5% Covers any ally within a 60 degree cone behind the Paladin

*Shield Stance: (Duration 5m, Recast 1m, Overwrites Cover Stance, Shield Stance, Crusade Stance, Only Usable if Shield is Equipped)
Slow +15%, Shield Rate +80%, Damage Reduction when Shield Procs +40%, Able to Block Ranged Attacks +80%

*Crusade Stance: (Duration 5m, Recast 1m, Overwrites Cover Stance, Shield Stance, Crusade Stance)
Haste +5%, Shield Rate -20%, Defense -5%, Attack +15%
---
This gives Paladin High healing capability while sacrificing attack speed while in "Cover", Higher defence and damage reduction, again sacrificing attack while in "Shield", and sacrificing defense to go on offense in "Crusade".

There will be much adjustment necessary to these, these are just fast 'toss out' numbers that would need tweaking to maintain balance. However, a stance system like this would put Paladins more in the role they were designed for (tanking), but with the ability to jump into a more offensvie role if required. Using stances may help prevent overbalance, making you choose the role and stick with it for a duration, just like a Samurai has to (Hasso for offense, Seigan for defense), but with the ability to adapt throughout the battle.

Getting low health? Drop into Shield... Got healed but the mages are under attack, jump to Cover, everyone's safe now? Go on the offensive a while... start to take damage, drop back down and shield again.

So many ideas to work with, but something needs to adjust to make the job useful in groups again. I love the job, but it's almost impossible to get invites now...

[Gallus]

I think the best way to adjust Paladin without going overboard would be to give them abilities that would vary based on whether they're equipping 2-handed weapons or the traditional sword/shield.

1-Handed: Paladin would now fill a desirable Tank/Support role. Permanent aura effect that grants 2-tick regain, regen, and refresh. Additionally, a new job ability that absorbs 30% enmity from all surrounding allies (45 second recast). Lastly, on successful shield blocks, the Paladin has a chance of leaving the monster "prone" for a short period of time, increasing critical hit rate and damage of allies (higher % chance the larger the shield).

2-Handed: Paladin would fill a DD/Healing role, getting a "Crusade" buff of sorts. The Paladin would gain a permanent enlight (approx +30% of physical damage dealt) that can crit. Also, a 25~35% increase in cure potency, and a job ability that distributes the damage dealt between the current target of the monster and the Paladin. The job will play quite different than it had in the past.