Alliance based content

[Draylo]

So it was announced that the new Delve will be 6-18 man and an adjustment of HP accordingly, as noted here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...e-new-Delve-II

My question is, what incentive is there right now to have a fully functioning linkshell when there is nothing to do with them that requires it? Why would I want to have 18 people for the new Delve when it is POSSIBLE to beat it (I know it will be, or why would they have included that adjustment to do it with 6 people) when I can do it with 6 people? Why do I drag 18 people into this content when I can clear it faster with 6 people with secondary characters and not have to split the loot at all? The loot is the same regardless of players entering, what sense does this make!? If this is going to be just like the adjustment to the original delve, like was said in that post, the rewards system wont be like Divine Might. There is 0 incentive to bring an alliance.

I've seen this once before and it was with Abyssea. This caused a splinter in all linkshells and pretty much destroyed them. So then after Adoulin came out we were forced to once again gather people up to do the original Delve because it was balanced around 18 people. Then you had everyone quit for XIV and come crawling back because its boring and the people who still had a linkshell are penalized for it.

My question is, will there ever be an incentive to do alliance based content that justifies having more than 6 people in our linkshells? Everything in this entire game can be 6 manned aside from VD Divine might. The new battles they have planned will probably all be 6 man as the originals were (Shadow Lord etc.) One event in the ENTIRE game that requires more than 6 people. This is an MMO?

Edit: Updated this post since its before Delve 2.0. Delve 2 heavily penalizes alliances and even bringing more than a handful of people. If you wanna include friends you can't unless its the strict job setup to get the win or you are looking at 68k+ HP per person. Why are alliances penalized for this when the rewards the same as the easy 6 man (or less considering you can trio it.)?

[Selindrile]

Why not make some new BCNMs 18 man content? Kirin/Behemoth/Fafnir/Adamantoise etc?

[Kimjongil]

If they made 18 man content I would hope it be like Divine Might 2.0. BUt not where you take in 18 people and have 16 rng melee one at a time while a super tank holds all others. The fight was boring. Two suggestions I do have.

1. The five WOTG formors with blue and white weapons, put them in a battlefield together.

2. The WOTG blu formors, Put all them in one battlefield together.

But make it so it is not just one super tank and melee pick one off at a time.

Or you could always do it legion style.

Wave one Divine might, wave two formor five, wave three WOTG formors.

Oh the fun

[Elphy]

Then you had everyone quit for XIV and come crawling back because its boring

Draylo just cant help but slam xiv every chance he gets lol

To quote a famous bard "The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

But I digress.

18-man content in this game is going away faster and faster and xi is basically being rendered the first solo mmo. But with numbers fluctuating and more often than not dwindling its no surprise they are making low man content a priority. The story is fantastic and some of the old endgame content was some of the best in the mmo-sphere (dynamis, salvage, einherjar, even nyzul was a hoot and so was mmm if you gave it a chance) but they have been broken down and/or reworked in such a way that its just not appealing anymore. Couple that with the poor ui, thousands of menus, silly lock out timers, etc and its not really a wonder that only the dedicated are sticking around and even they are starting to slip away. Plus who really wants to start building a weapon that's going to take months to well over a year sometime when you can just get a quick drop and move on, usually to a new game.

So the answer to why they did it is to just simply make it more accessible. It will be solo/trust friendly soon enough and then you wont even need 6 anymore. And like it or not xiv is the new money maker for se, not xi. So pleasing the few remaining by making accessible low-man content really is not a bad business plan. Just gotta roll with the punches if you have the insufferable urge to hold on.

[Selindrile]

Using that Shakespearean line here however is ridiculous, for Draylo would have no reason to hide his liking of FFXIV, if he had any like for the game.

And to say "XI is becoming the first solo MMO" is equally rediculous, many, many, more MMOs are far closer to such a thing, hell even XIV is closer to that than XI, though neither are remotely close to such a thing.

[FaeQueenCory]

Using that Shakespearean line here however is ridiculous, for Draylo would have no reason to hide his liking of FFXIV, if he had any like for the game.

And to say "XI is becoming the first solo MMO" is equally rediculous, many, many, more MMOs are far closer to such a thing, hell even XIV is closer to that than XI, though neither are remotely close to such a thing.

I do believe she was referencing how trust has killed grouping up for basically everything <99...
Which, in my opinion, is a shame... Because I've met most of my friends list via PUG xp pts... Cause that's when people are sociable.
Now... Everyone would rather compete and be dbags for whatever page mobs rather than loose those Trust supports....
Which could EASILY be rectified by making Trusts be able to be party fillers like Fellows.

[Draylo]

Draylo just cant help but slam xiv every chance he gets lol

To quote a famous bard "The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

But I digress.

18-man content in this game is going away faster and faster and xi is basically being rendered the first solo mmo. But with numbers fluctuating and more often than not dwindling its no surprise they are making low man content a priority. The story is fantastic and some of the old endgame content was some of the best in the mmo-sphere (dynamis, salvage, einherjar, even nyzul was a hoot and so was mmm if you gave it a chance) but they have been broken down and/or reworked in such a way that its just not appealing anymore. Couple that with the poor ui, thousands of menus, silly lock out timers, etc and its not really a wonder that only the dedicated are sticking around and even they are starting to slip away. Plus who really wants to start building a weapon that's going to take months to well over a year sometime when you can just get a quick drop and move on, usually to a new game.

So the answer to why they did it is to just simply make it more accessible. It will be solo/trust friendly soon enough and then you wont even need 6 anymore. And like it or not xiv is the new money maker for se, not xi. So pleasing the few remaining by making accessible low-man content really is not a bad business plan. Just gotta roll with the punches if you have the insufferable urge to hold on.

This game was founded on hard alliance content... a solo MMO is terrible lol. I didn't say it was wrong they made it 6~18man possibility, its wrong that they give the same rewards. What idiot thought that up? Why would you make it easier to complete a battle with 6 players and give the SAME rewards as the hard 18man fight? What MMO in the history of ever has done this? It makes absolutely no sense, you either give exclusive drops or more drops to the 18 man crew. They did it with Divine Might and then they take a step back and screw Delve up. The only reason you don't hear people saying anything about it is because they don't give a crap about 18 man alliance. They all quit and came back to the game and want everything handed to them in this age. They don't have the players anymore to make a linkshell because they screwed up or quit and abandoned those that they played with. My question to SE is, what incentive is there from this point onward to have a functioning linkshell? Are we going to strip down our numbers again just like with Abyssea and then have another content come out that requires us to repair our linkshells? Who isn't tired of doing that when they have been running an LS?

[AyinDygra]

I'm a returnee from just before the release of SoA. I play a monk primarily, from the early days of never getting invites unless the friends I joined the game with brought me along... took a year to get to 75. Had some of the best gear *I* could get (full Empy+2, epona, blackbelt, Taipan fangs, etc) when I left. I've always played Monk, even in FF1... 4 monks! FF5: 4 monks! ... I only really enjoy playing on Monk.

I come back, and my gear is useless, so I get Eminence gear... still can't get into shout Delve for wins, I only need 1, because if I got a win, I could solo-farm meywa plasm by those little shards you get from normal monsters in the fields... my linkshell is gone, friendlist is down to only 2 people, but they're not "friends" (friends of a friend... used to do Salvage/Dynamis with them)...

My schedule doesn't allow for regular play times setup beforehand. I play when I can play. I can't join any "Endgame" linkshells like this. I don't have the gear, I don't have the time. How does someone progress in an MMO that requires gear from content that requires large groups to get into content that allows smaller groups? Yeah, I'm stuck... no Delve, no Skirmish... I really REALLY hope they don't add more "Alliance-based" content, and I hope they add more ways to obtain gear that the playerbase will accept as "top-tier" that doesn't require an alliance, or even a party, given enough solo-effort and questing. (hey, just take the Tojil win requirement off of buying Oatixurs, and I'll gladly farm the plasma from using shards for 100-150 plasm per drop.)

The answer most people on these forums have been giving to other people has been: level whitemage or bard or corsair... alliances will take a naked one, no problem, and you can get your win that way! ... um, no. I hate those jobs. Last thing I want, is to have a job leveled that I hate, to be forced to use it for all the content I want to play on a job I like!


I also play Dancer to explore and solo missions (free sneak/invis/movement speed, solo survivability!), and Puppetmaster and Dragoon for fun (though I hate how this game handles pets in battles that matter... AoEdeath) These jobs don't seem any more welcome than my Monk to help me get it geared up.
I tried playing Samurai to help my small group out, but it was horribly undergeared compared to my Monk, and by the time it was 75, Sam needed Empy, and they wouldn't help me even get an Empy for my Monk, let alone Sam.

So, I for one, am glad for the death of Alliance-based content!
Bring on more Campaign and Wildskeeper reives, where I can join without asking somebody if I'm good enough for them to pick on their dodgeball team!
(yes, I still want an MMO... just not with all the restrictions players put on people!)

[Draylo]

Somebody has to play support jobs or the group won't succeed, 18man or 6man. If you don't have the time to sink into an MMO, you can't expect to be the best. You should be content with eminent gear and reforged AF, the low tier gear was created for players like you. The top end gear should be to the people who are most dedicated and are able to field the things necessary to win it.

[Mefuki]

The top end gear should be to the people who are most dedicated and are able to field the things necessary to win it.

So, you're saying there should be content in this game that people just can't do, not because of a lack of skill or effort they're willing to put forth, but because of how many people they know?

Granted, I do think it's strange that 6-man seems like it's going to have the same drop rates and such as 18-man.