The importance of job points

[PlumbGame]

Is content being designed around not needing Job Points, but having job points will eventually turn into a huge advantage? Because it sounds like from recent community rep responses that the gifts system is going to be expanded to include many new potentials for the job you are gaining them on, but I thought the original idea was to basically be an extra feature to advance your character without job points being "required", but the route they are going seems like they are going to be required.

[Alhanelem]

I don't get the fuss about it being "required" or not. Obviously they aren't vital at the moment, but the system is very clearly designed to be a "level up past 99" system. If there is never content where they are necessary, then they would, to some degree, trivialize the game. That being said, just like EXP, they will gradually make them easier as they become more expected.

To me this is like complaining that leveling to 99 is required after they raised the level caps. What point is there in adding new advancement features if you don't in any way need them? I also distinctly remember some people complaining about the job point system because the bonuses are insignificant. You can't have your cake and eat it too here. They're either going to be worthless and therefore not required for anything, or they will be useful and required by something - if not directly by the content, than by players who minmax and expect everyone who plays with them to be the best.

[PlumbGame]

There is no fuss, at least from me. I'm just trying to figure out there idea behind job points and the direction they are going with them. I would love to have "prestige" system essentially where you can make your character stronger to beat content that much easier for actually playing the job vs just gearing it with whatever job, which I almost viewed the job points/gift system as, but like I said, from adjustments that seem they are going to add to them, I wonder if they are going to become a necessity, not because of the players, but because SE will create content around it, for example higher ilvl requiring more ACC.

It even sounds like for example the gift system will eventually be even giving jobs new JAs/Spells etc. So it's really going to be interesting to see what unfolds.

[Alhanelem]

It sounded more like enhancements to existing abilities rather than new ones to me, but I could easily be mistaken.

[Byrth]

It sounded more like enhancements to existing abilities rather than new ones to me, but I could easily be mistaken.

You're mistaken. They've explicitly stated several times that they're going to introduce new spells and abilities through the Gift system, which you even acknowledged in an earlier post.

Again, I do not think that widening the gap between casuals and hardcores benefits anyone. There already aren't enough people logging in to play with. We don't need them amplifying this by disqualifying everyone that doesn't play 20 hours a week from current content. There just aren't that many of us anymore.

And yes, I'm aware that they've said these rewards are just designed to be an unnecessary boon to hardcores who don't need the game to be any easier. That's just not how it works, though. We'll end up with difficulty creep making them required to land spells on D fights. A BLM that has spent 55 JPs on Magic Accuracy has 21 more MAcc than one that has no JPs thanks to Gifts. They can hem and haw about how unnecessary Gifts are for current content, but 21 MAcc is an NQ elemental staff. That's not insignificant.

[Protey]

You're mistaken. They've explicitly stated several times that they're going to introduce new spells and abilities through the Gift system, which you even acknowledged in an earlier post.

Again, I do not think that widening the gap between casuals and hardcores benefits anyone. There already aren't enough people logging in to play with. We don't need them amplifying this by disqualifying everyone that doesn't play 20 hours a week from current content. There just aren't that many of us anymore.

And yes, I'm aware that they've said these rewards are just designed to be an unnecessary boon to hardcores who don't need the game to be any easier. That's just not how it works, though. We'll end up with difficulty creep making them required to land spells on D fights. A BLM that has spent 55 JPs on Magic Accuracy has 21 more MAcc than one that has no JPs thanks to Gifts. They can hem and haw about how unnecessary Gifts are for current content, but 21 MAcc is an NQ elemental staff. That's not insignificant.

there's a difference on required to have JPs and that of needing a GEO to increase your magic acc or RDM using Frazzle 2. So far there is no such content that exists. Even the highest levels of incursion were beaten without Gifts. If a BLM is having trouble landing spells... throw in a GEO or RDM to your party. When that no longer suffices, then people can bitch and moan. Until then, stop the o, the world is falling. I'm sick of it from all of you. Just play the game, when you have a legitimate gripe about something that actually exists, then by all means, speak up.

[Alhanelem]

This alleged "widening of the gap" is actually a good thing. The game was/is so ridiculously top heavy that short of adding new contsant constantly there's nothing they could do because everybody was max level with max merits, there was absolutely no reason to grind anything anymore (except for gil/currencies). the other suggestions i've seen (like level sync to anything) posed to deal with this type of problem really wouldn't be effective because people would still have little reason to go out to those places other than for nostalgia, but nostalgia alone won't progress your character.

[Byrth]

The gap is huge right now. Perhaps you can't tell because you're only looking at one side.

[Olor]

You're mistaken. They've explicitly stated several times that they're going to introduce new spells and abilities through the Gift system, which you even acknowledged in an earlier post.

Again, I do not think that widening the gap between casuals and hardcores benefits anyone. There already aren't enough people logging in to play with. We don't need them amplifying this by disqualifying everyone that doesn't play 20 hours a week from current content. There just aren't that many of us anymore.

And yes, I'm aware that they've said these rewards are just designed to be an unnecessary boon to hardcores who don't need the game to be any easier. That's just not how it works, though. We'll end up with difficulty creep making them required to land spells on D fights. A BLM that has spent 55 JPs on Magic Accuracy has 21 more MAcc than one that has no JPs thanks to Gifts. They can hem and haw about how unnecessary Gifts are for current content, but 21 MAcc is an NQ elemental staff. That's not insignificant.

Thank you Byrth, well said, especially the bolded part.

Over time JP will create a huge barrier for any new or returning player - just making it less likely this game survives in the long term. I don't understand the devs thinking here, especially with the huge disparity in the JP earning capability of different jobs. As it is my eyes bug out when I see people saying they have like 100 JP for a job or something when I've spent my precious and limited login time to specifically farm them and I think I have less than 10 total across all jobs...

[Alhanelem]

The gap is huge right now. Perhaps you can't tell because you're only looking at one side.

If I'm looking at one side it's not the top, I can tell you that much. And it's good that the gap is huge. It is healthy for a game to have players in lots of different states. FFXI became redonkulously top-heavy keeping the level cap the same for so long.

And I'm not talking about the job balance gap, to get that out of the way. THAT still needs a lot of work. Support classes and/or trusts need some adjustments to allow those jobs to be more independent. Greater incentive to party grind like the old days is needed. It's effective, but apparently not effective enough to get people to do it.

I'm aware that they've said these rewards are just designed to be an unnecessary boon to hardcores who don't need the game to be any easier. That's just not how it works, though.

You are the one putting the negative spin on this. They did not say "these rewards are designed to be an unnecessary boon to hardcores who dont need the game to be any easier."

Job points are for everyone, not just hardcores. I have resubbed for one month, played a few hours a day and gotten several job points. JOB POINTS ARE NOT A HARDCORE SYSTEM.

So no, Byrth's post is not well said. If it was, then we should be removing experience points and levels from the game too, because capacity points and EXP are essentially the same and earned exactly the same way. If Job points are hardcore, than so is leveling up. All I see in his post is whining, and little about improving or adjusting the system.

I guess people have forgotten that XI is simply a harder MMO than most.

Arguing that Job Points and Gifts, which are essentially extra levels after 99, shouldn't be required is like arguing that leveling up shouldn't be required.