Can we do away with low spawn chance placeheld NM's?

[Horadrim]

So, I actually enjoy the idea behind the Magian trials -- but one thing I'm finding annoying is this whole placeholder system. I like the idea of placeholders themselves, but why exactly does the spawn rate of the NM's in question have to be so low that it can take HOURS for them to appear?

I realize over the years that has been used as a sort of time sink, but is it really necessary at this point? Especially for low level mobs that don't even drop anything (My character is standing afk in La Thiene right now so I can try and pop Tumbling Truffle. Mind you, before I left for work this morning I was there for almost 2 hours trying to spawn it, even if someone had killed it just before I got there, there's no reason I shouldn't have gotten a spawn.)

Arguably, I can understand the idea of bogging people down as they work on their Empyrean weapons -- but at the same time initial "stand around and wait" is silly when you consider that you have to farm 30~75+ drops from higher level NMs who only drop 0~2 of the respective item. Even though that's tedious, I consider it the proper kind of tedious = Straightforward, active, and decently challenging with a curve that increases as your weapon gains power. It's variable interval reward system (good) vs. straight gambling with your time (bad).

Considering you end up having to farm Abyssea NMs just to break into earliest stage of your EMP Weapon (again, a good thing) I think its high time for a boost to the spawn rate of Placeholder mobs so we can cut straight to the interesting part of the Magian quests.

I don't see why something that already takes 10+ hours (plus travel time) by default should end up taking DAYS due to bad luck with spawns.

I can't be the only one who finds Stage 1~5 (depends on weapon, but for H2H its the first 5 trials) of building Empy's completely asinine.

EDIT:

For those who don't get where that 10 hours come from: ( O = 1 kill)

Trial 68: O ~1hr respawn~ O ~1hr respawn~ O (travel time)
Trial 69: O ~1hr respawn~ O ~1hr respawn~ O (travel time)
Trial 70: O ~1hr respawn~ O ~1hr respawn~ O (travel time)

Trial 71: O ~1hr respawn~ O ~1hr respawn~ O ~1hr respawn~ O (travel time)
Trial 72: O ~1.5 hr respawn ~ O ~1.5 hr respawn~ O ~1.5 hr respawn~ O (travel time)
Trial 73: O ~1hr respawn ~ O ~1hr respawn~ O ~1hr respawn~ O (travel time)

That's actually 16.5 hours at a minimum, assuming you can spawn the monster as soon as you get to the camp, not including travel time, and there aren't any other variables or mistakes.

[Rwolf]

I have to agree with this and see nothing wrong with it if it is balanced out to equate the same time and effort.

I've never liked the luck approach for the early trials for empyrean weapons. If SE is concerned about the time required to create an empyrean weapon, then the trials can be adjusted to compensate. Increase the spawn chance of lottery/placeholder NMs to be easily after the window is open but increase the amount of times needed to kill the NM. This way you maintain a balance of speed in creation but you give players without a lot of time to play in-game a feasible way to work toward their weapon slowly.

I won't say casual players because it gives a misnomer that time standing around or afking while someone else kills placeholders (which frequently happens) equals skill or dedication. This solution would not ask for it to be easier to obtain as in speed, just easier within time management. If you can spend 2 hours in dynamis farming currency or farming alexandrite in salvage. Why not the ability to spend 2 hours just working on empyrean weapon trials and know that you have solid progress.

In the end the player feels more rewarded through gradual progression than luck.

[Oddwaffle]

Would the idea of having normal mobs drop a rare item that you can trade to the ??? point similar to abyssea NMs be a good idea? This way people can sell their excess items in AH and others can buy them and pop their NMs quickly as a group. If soloing it will be slower but not as much.

[Yinnyth]

I actually preferred these trials to the active ones because they allowed me to do other things in the downtime. Sure, it might take you 10+ hours to finish them, but that's like saying it takes you 1+ hour to bake a cake. Do you sit there staring at the cake the whole time it's baking?

As far as actual time investment goes, these trials are pretty darned low, and they're different from other trials. I like different. If anything, I'd say trials are too similar to one another and there should be more variety, not less.

[Horadrim]

I actually preferred these trials to the active ones because they allowed me to do other things in the downtime. Sure, it might take you 10+ hours to finish them, but that's like saying it takes you 1+ hour to bake a cake. Do you sit there staring at the cake the whole time it's baking?

As far as actual time investment goes, these trials are pretty darned low, and they're different from other trials. I like different. If anything, I'd say trials are too similar to one another and there should be more variety, not less.

My point was I don't mind waiting an hour or hour and a half for the respawn. I don't mind exploring old zones or hunting low levels NMs -- I actually like that they make you see NM's you might have never seen before.

What I don't like is that on top of downtime of waiting for NMs you actually have such a low chance of getting because of the respawn that it can take one who's window opens up after 1 hour up to 8 or 9 to appear. Imagine if your luck is so bad that every respawn takes 5-8 hours for you. It would take months just to make it to the point where you get to actually fight things that represent a challenge.

Again, I don't mind the 16.5 hour minimum to finish my Empy up to the Color Abyssite mob -- what I don't like is that that minimum can easily get magnified. Case-in-point: I tried to get Tumbling Truffle this morning before work (the plan was: One in the morning before work while drinking my coffee, one during my lunch break since I live only a 5 minute drive from work, and one as soon as I get home so I can go to Jeuno, get some stuff done, and set up to do the next trial tomorrow.), but due to his poor drop rate I camped him for 2 hours and got nothing before I had to head out to work.
Mind you, no one had been there farming him before me, so his window should have been open from the get go, and even if it was, I was there long enough to where I should have been able to see him twice.

I proceeded to go home during lunch and after 46 minutes, I literally got the spawn right as I was gearing up to walk out of the door.

I think that's a bit asinine. Technically I'm only finishing 1 trial a day at this rate anyway, it shouldn't be so rare for him to spawn that I miss him over the course of a 2 hour window and a second 45 minute one.

Consider the fact that over the course of 16 hours I could complete a piece of +2 from scratch and you start to realize a stark difference between the work = reward vs. wait = possible reward. I'd rather be actively working on something than standing around. I don't pay 12 dollars a month for FFXI to watch netflix and play my Playstation Vita.

Would the idea of having normal mobs drop a rare item that you can trade to the ??? point similar to abyssea NMs be a good idea? This way people can sell their excess items in AH and others can buy them and pop their NMs quickly as a group. If soloing it will be slower but not as much.

Farming special items you can only get while using your trial weapon would be great, imo -- At least then you can feel the progress you're making even when you're not getting drops. Frankly, I'm dreading the 15 minute respawn placeholders I'm going to be fighting...

[Yinnyth]

My point was I don't mind waiting an hour or hour and a half for the respawn. I don't mind exploring old zones or hunting low levels NMs -- I actually like that they make you see NM's you might have never seen before.

What I don't like is that on top of downtime of waiting for NMs you actually have such a low chance of getting because of the respawn that it can take one who's window opens up after 1 hour up to 8 or 9 to appear. Imagine if your luck is so bad that every respawn takes 5-8 hours for you. It would take months just to make it to the point where you get to actually fight things that represent a challenge.

Yeah, I had a few that took me that long just to get one NM. Bugbear Strongman and Black Triple Stars were a royal pain for me. Heck, even that stupid weapon in horutoto took over 5 hours once. Even being a victim of the worst this system has to offer, I still think it's ok.

Though I'm not really afraid SE would actually change anything about this system. They won't. These trials are designed to waste time, and they do that with flying colors. There's hardly any risk that people will stop doing these trials anytime soon because the reward is just too tantalizing. The amount of time it would take to individually adjust each one of these NMs and/or trials is far too high for something which is doing exactly what it was designed to do.

[Logandor]

I totally agree that the time spawn of the actual nm with place holders need to be revamped. Two of the worst I have come across being Black Triple Stars and Octrap.

[Helyos]

The saying 'time is money' really comes into play when it comes to an endgame weapon. You can either spend your time, ie: sitting on your ass waiting for NMs you can one-shot for an empy, or spend your money, ie: 100mil for a relic/300mil for a relic. You can break that down even further by either farming your currency/alex or buying it straight up.

That being said, SE has to put some sort of time/gil sink on these because they're the best and thats how its always worked. And considering how close in power the empys are to relics, I'd say even with how long pops take, you're still seeing a way easier time than a relic.

[nyheen]

Would the idea of having normal mobs drop a rare item that you can trade to the ??? point similar to abyssea NMs be a good idea? This way people can sell their excess items in AH and others can buy them and pop their NMs quickly as a group. If soloing it will be slower but not as much.

this would be a great idea. or have to change too..
A: all trial NM will be changed to time poped. no more placeholder BS. 1 hour time pop. i dont even mind 3 hours but please drop the whole placeholder stuff.

B: trial NM can also be done in BCNM. example do any ksnm from Lachesis Orb 3 times. Operation Desert Swarm etc
C: get 10,000exp for your weapon in Conquest area for trial xx. pages exp do not count. merit pt anyone?

anything but 2-10 hours of spamming placeholder mobs all day. just named few way that take some time to do but it not as boring

[RAIST]

beginning to wonder if the OP was around for the old Empy hairpin hunts....or LL...Argus...<insert absurd Random Number Generator Abuse Story>. Plenty of precedence for how the RNG can flat out screw you over.

Dont' get me wrong, I can sympathize with getting impatient on those trials, and a change would be welcomed by pretty much everyone at this point and likely not receive much if any objection if they announced a change (I've made a total of 35 weapons so far myself). But, seriously, it's not like it's something new and not already documented how the lottery system can work against you. A 1 hour window for PH has never translated into you getting the NM in 2 hours. Look at the VE page...it still says 1-8 hour window. Probably a lot of NM's still showing things like that, because that's how they work--in x minutes/hours/days, PH shows up and offers you a chance to roll the dice to see if the NM will respawn. And yes...I put days because some would take a day or longer to repop.

Not trying to troll or be an @$$, but even if you're in the new generation that didn't go through the camping hell that once was FFXI, there's enough info out there to clue you in on what you were up against when you decided to make the weapon. Not like it isn't laid out on the sites where you can look up all the trial and mob info....that is, if one bothers to research at all these days.

Just be glad you didn't have to compete with half a zone of people after your same PH.....