[To the Devs] Remove ninja tools and make the ninja spells consume TP or mana

they are after all /ma magic abilities

No. then they'd have to magic aggro and I'm sure you wouldn't want that.

Absolutely not. Its easy to keep a staple supply of tools, keeping an endless supply of TP or MP is not. This would completely ruin the functionality of NIN.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

No. then they'd have to magic aggro and I'm sure you wouldn't want that.

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Why would they have to magic aggro then bard spells don't and cost no mp, but seriously don't be so cheap buy your tools and be happy that their cheap. Go sell some pearl teal and aurore sets to an npc that should help if you can't seem to afford them, or just don't play ninja.

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Originally Posted by hordecore

they are after all /ma magic abilities

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No thanks next plz.

you do realize that some of these tools are actual tools of the real life historical martial arts right? Granted, the uses have been modified for different purposes in the game (makibishi, kaginawa, etc)--but they are REAL tools used in the various disciplines.

I think SE sorta wanted to give a tribute to FFVIII's magic units system when they made NIN's spell consume units of items. I personally don't mind it. You should be happy that they gave us universal tools to not make us fill the inventory with 12 different types of tools.

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Originally Posted by RAIST

you do realize that some of these tools are actual tools of the real life historical martial arts right? Granted, the uses have been modified for different purposes in the game (makibishi, kaginawa, etc)--but they are REAL tools used in the various disciplines.

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bro you are talking about magic

so i guess this thread was a success, then?

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bro you are talking about magic

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Bro, ninjutsu isn't "magic." It's ninjutsu. it simply deals elemental damage (in the case of the elemental ninjutsu)

The whole point of ninjutsu was to create a different kind of mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Bro, ninjutsu isn't "magic." It's ninjutsu. it simply deals elemental damage (in the case of the elemental ninjutsu)

The whole point of ninjutsu was to create a different kind of mechanic.

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dude was talking about real life ninjas, whom he apparently thinks used salt licks to create ice bombs or something? (troll successful, point hordecore)

if i came over to your house and wiggled my fingers and said POOF YOU ARE A FROG and suddenly you were a frog, would your first question seriously be "hmm i wonder if his ability to turn me into a frog has anything in common with Dhalsim's use of yoga to spit fire and kick people from across the screen"

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Originally Posted by scaevola

dude was talking about real life ninjas, whom he apparently thinks used salt licks to create ice bombs or something? (troll successful, point hordecore)

if i came over to your house and wiggled my fingers and said POOF YOU ARE A FROG and suddenly you were a frog, would your first question seriously be "hmm i wonder if his ability to turn me into a frog has anything in common with Dhalsim's use of yoga to spit fire and kick people from across the screen"

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Noting in your post whatsoever suggested you were talking about real life. At all.

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Originally Posted by scaevola

dude was talking about real life ninjas, whom he apparently thinks used salt licks to create ice bombs or something? (troll successful, point hordecore)

if i came over to your house and wiggled my fingers and said POOF YOU ARE A FROG and suddenly you were a frog, would your first question seriously be "hmm i wonder if his ability to turn me into a frog has anything in common with Dhalsim's use of yoga to spit fire and kick people from across the screen"

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Actually, the point is that they actually DID use a lot of these tools, so their is a REAL LIFE connection. The mysticism of the magic built up around them just like any other tall tale about wizards and warlocks and magical dragons did. But in fact they were using physical tools to perform a lot of their "mystical" feats.

IDK how many times I've seen clone type "skills" showing a cartoon/movie character using paper dolls to create the clones--hmmm sounds an awful lot lik the shihei tools (we make litttle paper dolls) to create our shadows. Just one example, but there is a real life connection to the myth and the real life disciplines that can be drawn for a lot of the tools made in FFXI if you just sit down and do a little research on them.

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Originally Posted by RAIST

Actually, the point is that they actually DID use a lot of these tools, so their is a REAL LIFE connection. The mysticism of the magic built up around them just like any other tall tale about wizards and warlocks and magical dragons did. But in fact they were using physical tools to perform a lot of their "mystical" feats.

IDK how many times I've seen clone type "skills" showing a cartoon/movie character using paper dolls to create the clones--hmmm sounds an awful lot lik the shihei tools (we make litttle paper dolls) to create our shadows. Just one example, but there is a real life connection to the myth and the real life disciplines that can be drawn for a lot of the tools made in FFXI if you just sit down and do a little research on them.

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Well said sir, two thumbs up.

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Actually, the point is that they actually DID use a lot of these tools, so their is a REAL LIFE connection. The mysticism of the magic built up around them just like any other tall tale about wizards and warlocks and magical dragons did. But in fact they were using physical tools to perform a lot of their "mystical" feats.

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no, the point is that they were not actually performing these mystical feats to begin with. they were scouts/spies who spent their time doing very mundane scout/spy-related things which generally did not involve shooting fireballs or creating multiple mirror images of themselves. unfortunately, a job that camps mee deggi by dressing like a yagudo for two years and then sneaking out of castle oz under cover of darkness to report to its linkshell leader probably wouldn't be very fun to play

but i'm not sure i should expect people to understand what i'm talking about when csi is like the most popular show in the universe



EDIT: in retrospect, "camps Valkurm Emperor by dressing up like a sheep for two years" probably would have been funnier so feel free to insert that

oh, and for the record, BLU magic isn't actually always magic in the normal sense--you are often mimicing the skills learned by observing someone else using them. So, really, a lot are abilities-- they just appear to the uninformed masses in Vanadiel to be magical in nature.

Songs also are not magic.

Just saying......

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Originally Posted by scaevola

no, the point is that they were not actually performing these mystical feats to begin with. they were scouts/spies who spent their time doing very mundane scout/spy-related things which generally did not involve shooting fireballs

but i'm not sure i should expect people to understand what i'm talking about when csi is like the most popular show in the universe

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Everyone calls illusionists magicians, knowing full well it is an art of deception using skills and sometimes technology and nothing magical about them.

Ninja were PERCEIVED as having done thier magical feats--more or less because people didn't know any way to explain it otherwise. Camouflaging themselves and hiding in the shadows, using wooden plates on their feet to mimic animal footprints so they can't be tracked--in essence appearing to have vanished without a trace after dropping some sort of firework to temporarily blind opponents. A vastly elaborate array of tools and disciplines that presented an air of mysticism that led to myths and legends over time.

Edit: nice post editing there. And btw--this is a GAME called Final FANTASY. People running around summoning beasts to fight for them, summoning fire spirits or deity to fight by their side, casting magical spells that bounce not only from one location to another, but also back and forth through time.

Get with the program dude.

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Originally Posted by RAIST

Ninja were PERCEIVED as having done thier magical feats--more or less because people didn't know any way to explain it otherwise. Camouflaging themselves and hiding in the shadows, using wooden plates on their feet to mimic animal footprints so they can't be tracked--in essence appearing to have vanished without a trace after dropping some sort of firework to temporarily blind opponents. A vastly elaborate array of tools and disciplines that presented an air of mysticism that led to myths and legends over time.

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I am pretty sure people in Japan five-hundred years ago were capable of figuring that sort of thing out with a bit of reflection without resorting to OMG WIZARDS

And yes, this is a game with people running around summoning magical monsters and shit but nobody is posting comparisons between the circles that show up on the ground when you summon an avatar and the pentagrams you draw on the floor when you summon a demon IRL

but then again csi so w/e

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Originally Posted by scaevola

I am pretty sure people in Japan five-hundred years ago were capable of figuring that sort of thing out with a bit of reflection without resorting to OMG WIZARDS

but then again csi so w/e

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That may be so in the general sense, but there is always the make believe factor. By your train of thought....we would never had the scores of fairy tales, movies, comic books, games--heck, even many religions would not exist.

For the record, I never watch CSI. Got tired of most of the regurgitated dramas ages ago.

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Originally Posted by RAIST

That may be so in the general sense, but there is always the make believe factor. By your train of thought....we would never had the scores of fairy tales, movies, comic books, games--heck, even many religions would not exist.

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To scare children, maybe; the human imagination is boundless but being able to separate reality from fantasy has always (and I mean, like, predating what you're even talking about) been considered one of the central aspects of maturity. At any rate, mythology only holds water as long as it happens to somebody else. Ninjas are immediately identifiable as completely mundane because they actually existed, and we know the sorts of things they did.

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For the record, I never watch CSI. Got tired of most of the regurgitated dramas ages ago.

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It's.....basically a show about wizards casting magic spells to catch bad guys. In this case, the magic spells are technology that either does not exist or is so prohibitively expensive that the idea of a police department using it is beyond absurd.

CSI and its popularity is a big reason why The Wire is often considered the most important television show ever made.

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Originally Posted by RAIST

oh, and for the record, BLU magic isn't actually always magic in the normal sense

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Way to give him a new troll idea!

I find it a bit annoying Ninja spells take tools, I mean bard doesn't need any thing to cast songs now do they.

omg that's a great idea. this would allow for redmages to be more useful to a ninja with their refresh2 now.
i know that everyone feels redmage is fairly useless but THIS will make them come back!!!
i vote yes!!!

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Originally Posted by Yarly

omg that's a great idea. this would allow for redmages to be more useful to a ninja with their refresh2 now.
i know that everyone feels redmage is fairly useless but THIS will make them come back!!!
i vote yes!!!

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Nice idea gimp one job to make one useful again, would completly kill it as a sub job for anything besides blue or rdm. Not to mention kill thfs dancers and ninjas ability to tank or solo, leaving only mnk or pld as tanks in the game.

Makes no sense because ninjutsu isn't really magic. You're not casting a blind spell on someone you're throwing an eggshell filled with black pepper and gunpowder into his eyes.

It doesn't matter that they are use with the /ma command, so are songs but those aren't magic either.

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Originally Posted by hordecore

they are after all /ma magic abilities

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Bard songs should probably cost mana too

If using /ma "Ninjutsu Name" <target> or /ma "Song Name" <target> bugs you. They have their own macro syntax that works the same.

/nin "Ninjutsu Name" <target> & /so "Song Name" <target>

I use /so for my bard songs.

The moment they made ninjutsu take MP and not tools OP would complain about how he can't use RR/GH/AoA or whatever as his atma.

"It's not fair SE you shouldn't have changed it you should have given us a 100% conserve MP trait at level 50 or 100% ninja tool expertise."

Some of these threads are just too funny.