[dev1017] Job Adjustments and Refinements

Well again Rdm gets NOTHING........why did I work so hard only to leave the job in the MH. Unless I use it to solo, no one wants Rdm anymore.

Why are you so surprised....

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ing-April-2011

June Minor Version Update
This version update will revolve around fine-tuning content introduced in May.

rdm party play sucked anyway, solo is where the rdm fun is at

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*We are in the process of devising a roadmap for subsequent job adjustments, which we plan to unveil in the near future. Thank you for your patience and understanding.

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Keep your knickers on.

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Originally Posted by lllen

Well again Rdm gets NOTHING........why did I work so hard only to leave the job in the MH. Unless I use it to solo, no one wants Rdm anymore.

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It could be worse. We could be getting Refresh III, Haste II and Staff Mastery or something like that.

I couldn't help but notice there's nothing in there for RNG DRK or DRG...those are the first jobs that come to mind when I think of the word "useless"

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

I couldn't help but notice there's nothing in there for RNG DRK or DRG...those are the first jobs that come to mind when I think of the word "useless"

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Why? DRG is a great DD. The recent DRK changes are pretty bad ass also.

RNG needs some more lovin' for sure, but even they have been getting lots of attention lately too.

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Originally Posted by Nebo

Why? DRG is a great DD. The recent DRK changes are pretty bad ass also.

RNG needs some more lovin' for sure, but even they have been getting lots of attention lately too.

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DRGs are mediocre at best, the recent DRK changes are essentially a kick in the teeth to them, and rangers get absolutely 0 love.

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

DRK changes are essentially a kick in the teeth to them

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Capped job ability haste and Attack Boost with last resort for 3 out of 5 minutes is a kick in the teeth?

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

DRGs are mediocre at best, the recent DRK changes are essentially a kick in the teeth to them, and rangers get absolutely 0 love.

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This post is pretty delusional, no offense but if you think DRG is mediocre at best, you're doing it wrong.

The discussion in this thread is proof of how little people really know about this game.

Even my gimpy DRG was busting out 3.5k Drakes and 1k+ jumps when leveling it. I can only imagine if I took the time to refine an x-hit build, flesh out +2 pieces, and other good WS gear. And while DRK may be lacking a crit WS on their main weapons, let's not pretend 600+ normal swings aren't happening, that they can also set up good x-hit builds, and are basically at 50% Haste 180s out of 250s before throwing in the spell or marches. Even then, they have a means to guarantee a roughly 2k magic WS if they bothered to gear for it.

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

DRGs are mediocre at best, the recent DRK changes are essentially a kick in the teeth to them, and rangers get absolutely 0 love.

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suck less
if you think DRG is mediocre at best then any DD that is not war mnk nin are total useless shit :DRG totaly explose any other DD in aby, it's not used because it lacks !! and "tanking" ability
the only point you said that is not total bulshit is rng lack of love
=>

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

The discussion in this thread is proof of how little people really know about this game.

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There's a reason it's War Mnk Nin or gtfo.

Sure they gave DRK a few new boosts but quite frankly it's not addressing the real problems with DRK.

Outside of Abyssea there's no problem with DRK or DRG, not sure about RNG, but inside they're definitely not up to par, DRK moreso than DRG.

Doesn't Drk have more Red and blue procs than Drg? IT's more relevant inside abyssea than Drg is aside possibly from a damage prespective but Drg still has trouble on Nms with Aoe with wyvern dying.

Procs equate how good a job is at DDing (Damage Dealing) now? Okay. Yeah, there's a reason it's War Mnk Nin or gtfo, and it's called procs not damage.

Er what? I was referring to relevancy, in which case Drk is more relevant because it has more procs and is now better at dealing damage...

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Originally Posted by Raksha

Keep your knickers on.

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Most people here probably don't know what knickers are.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Most people here probably don't know what knickers are.

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They're candy bars covered in chocolate with peanuts and caramel on the inside, but that's not important right now.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

They're candy bars covered in chocolate with peanuts and caramel on the inside, but that's not important right now.

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I think you've confused that with something else. >.>

Nae, knickers ae an NBA team!

Bad jokes aside, while their may be a job plan in the works, it's not a guarantee for relief. If we consider how SE behaved in the past, we might find out something like DRG and PUP would get something in August. Good for them, but not good for those who now have to wait for November or December. Furthermore, there's also concern that SE might out of touch with job issues, how people play the jobs, and perhaps how they should be played. For them to come out and say something like, "We feel RDM a powerful job and have to think carefully about what to give it." like they had before does not inspire confidence in RDMs who believe the job is not in a good place, both in identity and function.

Historically, they've been pretty slow with job adjustments. 2-4 jobs possibly getting minor attention every 3-4 months doesn't lead to happy customers when you've got 20 jobs in circulation. Sure, part of this can be appeased by the release of new gear, but some might argue that a band-aid for actual issues. Gear alone should never be a fix for a job, sort of like how RDM's +2 empyrean set bonus should actually have been a set of traits gained while leveling up for all buffs in general.

Was I the only one disappointed with the Paladin adjustments? Unless the added damage on Flash will somehow generate enough enmity to get an enemy's attention for 2 seconds. Oh wait flash doesn't do damage and Divine Emblem is a 10 min timer. I suppose Ninja might get a slight boost with their adjustment. But over all nothing has been done to fix the tanking situation.

Aye I agree that SE has been kind of slow, I will give them the benefit of the doubt that they should not rush things either. After all, the game dramatically changed for alot of jobs with the rise of the level cap, I can only imagine it might happen again when we finally peak at 99.

(Only updating a handful of jobs at a time is a great economic model)

I hope SE gets the hint and distributes more -pdt gear for pets for outside of Abyssea.

Pls halp, my job is broken because it doesn't deal the most damage.

There is a lot of work that could be done to some jobs, but I hope those changes are not going to be based only on that aspect.

DRK should have some crit traits and/or WS's... The whole persona of Dark Knight would make you think that it should be critting more often than most, not less. However, I'm not sure that this would maintain much balance after the last update. As a DRK main, I'd much rather they give us an actual role to fill with new magic/abilities. Needs more stunning / pseudo-terror.

I think both DRK and PLD, being branches off of the WAR "tree", should have stances. These two jobs should be able to focus either on their physical/combat capabilities or support/utility capabilities depending on the situation, while WAR remains in its single in-between state with the ability to do both well at once.

I think DRG has nice mixture of survivability, damage, and hate mitigation. The only thing I'd like to see for DRG is perhaps some new breaths (with some loose level of player control) that provide buffs and/or enfeebles.

RDM shouldn't be looking to be WHM or BLM. It's always been a lesser mixture of the two. RDM needs something new and unique to bring to the table. Something like what Refresh and MP regeneration in general was for it originally. Maybe RDM could get exclusive access to ammo slot equipment that attaches auras to its weapons to provide buffs/debuffs- this would also finally give them a reason to melee. It could be anything, it doesn't have to be melee RDM, just so long as RDM has a very unique and almost-necessary role in a PT. Otherwise people will just want a WHM or BLM.

RNG...RNG definitely needs something big. Maybe a trait that occasionally expends 2 arrows (for double damgage) and very rarely expends 3 or something.

SAM is SE's lovechild, it'll be ok.

I think BST and PUP both need attention, but I don't know enough to say what exactly so I won't even try to pull any more ideas out of my ass here.

Is it just me or did RDM get access to a lot of decent gear for things other than spellcasting in the last update?

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Originally Posted by Selzak

Pls halp, my job is broken because it doesn't deal the most damage.


SAM is SE's lovechild, it'll be ok.

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Seriously what is up with SE and SAM? I thought it wasn't getting any more updates because it was too strong. That is what SE said at the last Vandafest or whatever it is called. It is so obnoxious, SAM is the last job that needs anything, along with war and mnk. I just hope the samwagon and SAM only shouts don't return like during the Nyzul/TP burn era.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I think you've confused that with something else. >.>

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Yea, but he still gets points for the Airplane reference.

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Originally Posted by Nicholiathan

Was I the only one disappointed with the Paladin adjustments? Unless the added damage on Flash will somehow generate enough enmity to get an enemy's attention for 2 seconds. Oh wait flash doesn't do damage and Divine Emblem is a 10 min timer. I suppose Ninja might get a slight boost with their adjustment. But over all nothing has been done to fix the tanking situation.

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you right and i a a bit disappointed but I think it a step in the right direction if it all works out like it sounds. Pld still got a long way before anyone want them inside aby and even outside aby right now. If anyone think drg, drk, and rng are useless in or outside aby right now, try getting invited as a pld to anything other then a level sync party.

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Originally Posted by lowkey

Yea, but he still gets points for the Airplane reference.

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Thank you! I was afraid no one was going to get it.

Outside of abyssea rdm is still a great job, still even before abyssea rdms were really only wanted for 2 times, main healing merit parties and refreshing the whms and blms at endgame. Lot of things you could do with out a rdm but didn't have a whm or blm it would be tough. You should be happy all the DD players that only level rdm to merit whore are gone. Why you think people ditch jobs like rdm, brd, pld the first chance they get. To play the jobs they be meriting for years but never could get invites on or had to go though level hell so they might get in a endgame LS.

Really the main Job's I see that needed amending are PLD and RDM.

For instance RDM hasn't had Cure V since December 16th 2003, and It's something that Job needs to help it maintain decent healing, SCH can use things like Obi's and the Twilight cape combined with Aurorastorm for decent Cure heals.

PLD needs various amendments without turning it into a DD that's near invincible.

Asking for DD's SE had to do something to fix Zanshin as it has minor use compared to other JT's. I believe Sam, Drk and Drg are fine as they are, each can manage very well with proper gear.

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Originally Posted by Toren

For instance RDM hasn't had Cure V since December 16th 2003, and It's something that Job needs to help it maintain decent healing

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How about we push RDM in a new direction rather than give us more of the same stuff we've been dealing with since before TAU?

PLD definitely needs help, but I feel that job is more boned be the way hate mechanics work in FFXI.

@RDM melee

Want to do damage?
Atma: RR/SS/Apoc
Almace/DA ToM Sword/none/white tathlum
Zelus/torque(or Torero)/suppa/brutal
goliard/dusk+1/keen(or heed)/rajas
atheling/goading(or ninurta)/nashira/dusk+1

You can then at least say you'll be doing more damage than PLD anyway.

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Originally Posted by Dauntless

I couldn't help but notice there's nothing in there for RNG DRK or DRG...those are the first jobs that come to mind when I think of the word "useless"

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lol are you trolling in the wrong thread? Why are those jobs useless? Everyone has refresh and can use it and only 3 jobs really use it tbh while others are fine with atmas.

Ah delicious RDM tears...

Seriously though, I think we can safely say that we're at the point where no further major tweaks are necessary, save for perhaps a few cases;

RDM: I see a lot of people crying about Cure V, and when I hear it it sends off alarm bells in my head screaming out "PINK MAGE ONRY!!!" and the return of lolWHM. I don't see how these 2 jobs could get Cure V at this point with screwing over WHM outside of Abyssea once more. Rather, why not give RDM better enfeebling spells - Slow 3, Dia 4, Gravity/Silence II etc...

THF: Make treasure hunter actually work? Really sick of landing TH10+ and getting jack squat...

PLD: PLD is actually largely OK (for the moment) outside of Abyssea surprisingly enough, but that could very well change as Voidwatch & the rest of endgame evolves. As others have suggested, changing Cover to a job trait and perhaps making Sentinel 3 minutes would go a long ways towards fixing this job once & for all.

DRK: Change Insurgency to a crit WS (or failing that Quietus I suppose) problem solved >_>b

BST: The new jugs have been a huge success, and things are pretty good for BST. It does kind of suck however that Charm is basically a forgotten ability at this point.

RNG: So, I believe SE already had the fix for this job planned but they scrapped it for some reason I can't begin to fathom. Implement that enmity reduction based on range and you fix a lot of RNG's woes. The job doesn't need more firepower, it needs more ways to stay alive. Jishnu's Radiance + Dead Aim sure isn't helping in that regard.

NIN: The only remaining issue with NIN is still Shuriken. They're actually quite pointless now given the DPS on the newer katana, and even if SE gives us new ones they'd have to make them cost-effective unlike all the previous ones.

DRG: DRG's in a pretty good place now I'd say. The wyvern still feels a little too fragile though.

SMN: SMN's always been the red-headed step child of this game. I'm not even sure what SE could do at this point that wouldn't result in making the job too good. I do think that summoning skill with relation to avatar performance (HP, attack, def etc) and BP timers ought to be addressed however. And please, remove the 15% damage penalty on Avatar's Favor. You finally gave us a tool to encourage keeping avatars out, but then include a rather back-handed nerf to their damage which is already pitiful in most cases.

Scholar should get cure V before anyone else. the job is in a serious rut- it can't trigger anything that isn't triggerable by other jobs, is a sub par healer in abyssea because cure IV isn't good enough anymore, and rarely does anyone make use of any of the things unique about the job. Helices are strong and a high point of the job, but I can't think of much else that gets good use in abyssea. Scholar was at the peak of its strength in old Dynamis and now it just feels like it's lagging behind a bit, simply because it doesn't offer much that no one else can do.

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remove the 15% damage penalty on Avatar's Favor.

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It's not a % damage penalty, it's attack and magic attack minus. The physical attack loss is almost unnoticeable; just build for that if you want to use Favor.

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Originally Posted by Siiri

Seriously what is up with SE and SAM? I thought it wasn't getting any more updates because it was too strong. That is what SE said at the last Vandafest or whatever it is called. It is so obnoxious, SAM is the last job that needs anything, along with war and mnk. I just hope the samwagon and SAM only shouts don't return like during the Nyzul/TP burn era.

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WAR, MNK, SAM, BLM, SCH, WHM, PLD is more or less jobs that don't need anything more. They are so incredibly spoiled both with armor selection and updates.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

WAR, MNK, SAM, BLM, SCH, WHM, PLD is more or less jobs that don't need anything more. They are so incredibly spoiled both with armor selection and updates.

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Why is PLD on that list lol, no job needs more work

The rest I agree with though, other than maybe SAM and SCH since they both get sidelined for WAR and BLM or WHM.