Fell Cleave Options

So, quick question... working with what I have, what would be the better option for Fell Cleave... Ravager's Mask +1, or Varangian Helm? Both inside and outside of Abyssea.

Also, it occurs to me that I don't have any good WS pants for WAR? What are some nice options? (Not just for Fell Cleave.)

There's not many great options for legs. I use Teutates Subligar normally, because whenever I play WAR my Attack is usually capped (at least on mobs I'd be using Fell Cleave on), both inside and outside Abyssea. Hachiryu Haidate would be best, although not exactly many of those to go around.

For head I'd go with Ravager's Mask +2, for the same reason, or Twilight Helm if you have it. Although if you did have it, I don't think you'd be asking this, so I'll be over there.

For head, go with the Varangian Helm over Ravager's +1. I'd still go with Varangian when you upgrade it to +2 since acc is very likely to be capped, double attack isn't worth it for AOE WS, and FC is purely STR based so the VIT doesn't offer anything. Crit +3% I'm not sure about though. This may or may not beat 4STR.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

For head, go with the Varangian Helm over Ravager's +1. I'd still go with Varangian when you upgrade it to +2 since acc is very likely to be capped, double attack isn't worth it for AOE WS, and FC is purely STR based so the VIT doesn't offer anything. Crit +3% I'm not sure about though. This may or may not beat 4STR.

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This. Completely. I forgot that Varangian Helm also has STR on it, which makes my point moot.

Critical hit rate doesn't affect Fell Cleave, so that doesn't matter, and Acc should be capped on most things, both inside and outside of Abyssea. Fell Cleave has a very high STR mod, so you'll see big rewards from that, even when Attack isn't capped.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Critical hit rate doesn't affect Fell Cleave, so that doesn't matter

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I didn't think it would but I didn't want to assume so. Thanks for confirming.

+2 > Twilight > Viking hat if only targeting one mob
Twilight > Viking hat > +2 if targeting a group since iirc DA can only hit the main mob (Although this may just be when using Warrior's Charge, in which case +2 is probably always better)

for legs +2 are better than teutates I'd say, because in my experience FC doesn't get an accuracy boost. Of course Hachiryu Haidate are optimal, and the WS DMG+2 trophy pants might even beat that if you're using VV (which you should unless you can keep up Mighty Strikes, in which case use Sanguine Scythe. It's not particularly hard to keep up Mighty Strikes either when Azure and Pearl is capped). Mighty Strikes does make FC crit, like all WS.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

for legs +2 are better than teutates I'd say, because in my experience FC doesn't get an accuracy boost.

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It's hard to say, on current content my accuracy is capped on almost everything. Especially everything FC worthy.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

Of course Hachiryu Haidate are optimal, and the WS DMG+2 trophy pants might even beat that if you're using VV (which you should unless you can keep up Mighty Strikes, in which case use Sanguine Scythe. It's not particularly hard to keep up Mighty Strikes either when Azure and Pearl is capped). Mighty Strikes does make FC crit, like all WS.

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Does that hold true for AoE hits too? I never tried that actually, imo it's not worth getting chests when mobs die so soon anyway.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Does that hold true for AoE hits too? I never tried that actually, imo it's not worth getting chests when mobs die so soon anyway.

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Yes, using cleave while MS is active makes the forced crit apply to everything. When my friends and I get lazy in a cleave, I've taken to just spamming keys on every blue chest that drops and MS'ing when it's up. ;)

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Originally Posted by Arcon

It's hard to say, on current content my accuracy is capped on almost everything. Especially everything FC worthy.



Does that hold true for AoE hits too? I never tried that actually, imo it's not worth getting chests when mobs die so soon anyway.

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Yes it does, and it is worth it when you kill them in 1 hit. Giving you much more time to find that ISL chest. FC does waaaaay more than RR when you mighty strikes and couple it with Warrior's Charge if you don't have Ukko's. RR caps at around 5.8k in my experiance and FC can do up to 6.5k with mighty strikes and TA proc.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

Yes it does, and it is worth it when you kill them in 1 hit. Giving you much more time to find that ISL chest. FC does waaaaay more than RR when you mighty strikes and couple it with Warrior's Charge if you don't have Ukko's. RR caps at around 5.8k in my experiance and FC can do up to 6.5k with mighty strikes and TA proc.

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That's interesting, I didn't consider that. Although I'm guessing that's only in Abyssea, because of the high STR mod on Fell Cleave, and very low STR mod on Raging Rush (mods play a much higher role inside Abyssea). Outside I'm guessing it still beats Fell Cleave with Mighty Strikes up. King's Justice should be comparable, if not better, than Fell Cleave inside Abyssea (Mighty Strikes only).

Does TA from Atma override Warrior's Charge? I thought it didn't.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

That's interesting, I didn't consider that. Although I'm guessing that's only in Abyssea, because of the high STR mod on Fell Cleave, and very low STR mod on Raging Rush (mods play a much higher role inside Abyssea). Outside I'm guessing it still beats Fell Cleave with Mighty Strikes up. King's Justice should be comparable, if not better, than Fell Cleave inside Abyssea (Mighty Strikes only).

Does TA from Atma override Warrior's Charge? I thought it didn't.

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it doesn't my wording is bad, but FC should still do more with just DA, although it will be closer to RR

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Originally Posted by Myrid

Yes, using cleave while MS is active makes the forced crit apply to everything. When my friends and I get lazy in a cleave, I've taken to just spamming keys on every blue chest that drops and MS'ing when it's up. ;)

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I'm pretty surprise to be finding out that not all WARs prefer 2hr Cleaving when at all possible in Abyssea. It's... pure... crack in a handbag... it's... smex(Super Made Sex)! Try it as often as you can! @-@

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Originally Posted by kingfury

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I'm pretty surprise to be finding out that not all WARs prefer 2hr Cleaving when at all possible in Abyssea. It's... pure... crack in a handbag... it's... smex(Super Made Sex)! Try it as often as you can! @-@

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I have other things to spend cruor on. Whether all mobs die in 3 seconds or 10 seconds doesn't matter to me at all. And I'm not that hot for high numbers, at least not on stuff that doesn't matter.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

I have other things to spend cruor on. Whether all mobs die in 3 seconds or 10 seconds doesn't matter to me at all. And I'm not that hot for high numbers, at least not on stuff that doesn't matter.

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You'll make way more cruor over time if you are killing things faster.

Assuming you have a puller worth a damn

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

You'll make way more cruor over time if you are killing things faster.

Assuming you have a puller worth a damn

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Even without using Mighty Strikes, I can kill a lot faster than it would take the puller to even run back to the pulling point. And my example was still bad, I usually kill things with three hits tops. Mighty Strikes would reduce that to up to two hits. And since I can literally WS back-to-back, it takes me about 2 seconds longer to kill with than without. If you time MS badly, you even lose out on those two seconds again.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Even without using Mighty Strikes, I can kill a lot faster than it would take the puller to even run back to the pulling point. And my example was still bad, I usually kill things with three hits tops. Mighty Strikes would reduce that to up to two hits. And since I can literally WS back-to-back, it takes me about 2 seconds longer to kill with than without. If you time MS badly, you even lose out on those two seconds again.

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I guess it depends on the target, but you could easily 1hit the common targets for a FC.

Mighty Strikes also lets you kill things that would be otherwise unfeasible to FC on; things that hit too hard and too fast.

Situational stuff is situational.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Even without using Mighty Strikes, I can kill a lot faster than it would take the puller to even run back to the pulling point. And my example was still bad, I usually kill things with three hits tops. Mighty Strikes would reduce that to up to two hits. And since I can literally WS back-to-back, it takes me about 2 seconds longer to kill with than without. If you time MS badly, you even lose out on those two seconds again.

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Yeah, a 2hr FC can wipe out lots of mobs with one swipe, occasionally leaving like 2-3 stubborn mobs up with 2-5% HP left. Can't beat the efficiency of possibly using 1 WS vs multiple.

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Originally Posted by kingfury

Yeah, a 2hr FC can wipe out lots of mobs with one swipe, occasionally leaving like 2-3 stubborn mobs up with 2-5% HP left. Can't beat the efficiency of possibly using 1 WS vs multiple.

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Those 2-3 stubborn mobs will take longer to kill than to perform another Fell Cleave using Retaliation to build TP, with 10 mobs hitting you. The difference is negligible, especially if you consider it will take the puller some time to simply run back to the respawn point. What Leon said, it depends on the target, I didn't consider using MS to use FC on stronger targets. Personally I don't FC much anyway, but the few times I did, I experienced with different styles and found barely any difference between going all out and half-assing it, when it came to efficiency.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Those 2-3 stubborn mobs will take longer to kill than to perform another Fell Cleave using Retaliation to build TP, with 10 mobs hitting you. The difference is negligible, especially if you consider it will take the puller some time to simply run back to the respawn point. What Leon said, it depends on the target, I didn't consider using MS to use FC on stronger targets. Personally I don't FC much anyway, but the few times I did, I experienced with different styles and found barely any difference between going all out and half-assing it, when it came to efficiency.

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Oh you gotta get on some more FC'ing! Good for the back y'know.

But nah, the few scraggler mobs holding on for dear life, only take one hit to dispose of. You almost feel sorry for them while commending their will to survive... almost... and them BOOM! /Scores a Critical hit for 650!

If you dont want ruby, can use cataclysm, dont need to rely on 2hr chests.

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Originally Posted by Aurara

If you dont want ruby, can use cataclysm, dont need to rely on 2hr chests.

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This is true, but needs more healing most of the time, as you'll be taking much more damage since the highest cataclysm i've seen is only 2.3k, which requires you to gimp your atmas quite a bit and a huge overhall in MAB gear.

idk if its been mentioned but with PDT gear and atmas on war/rdm you can AE mobs down, not as safe as on pld but it does work just fine.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

This is true, but needs more healing most of the time, as you'll be taking much more damage since the highest cataclysm i've seen is only 2.3k, which requires you to gimp your atmas quite a bit and a huge overhall in MAB gear.

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my catas do 2.5-2.6k, and with retaliation+20+ mobs TP isn't an issue, also PDT gear/phalanx shouldnt be an issue lol.

I cleave on Dancer. The actual kill may be slower, but it requires very little support. Generally I build 300TP and 5 Finishing moves on a monster while I check chests with another account, and then I pull everything. Sekka -> Aeolian Edge -> Aeolian Edge -> Reverse Flourish -> Aeolian Edge -> Meditate +hits (OA2-4 offhand) -> Aeolian Edge kills everything and takes <30 seconds (unless the monsters are being dicks and running through my body). Checking chests is always the bad part.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

I cleave on Dancer. The actual kill may be slower, but it requires very little support. Generally I build 300TP and 5 Finishing moves on a monster while I check chests with another account, and then I pull everything. Sekka -> Aeolian Edge -> Aeolian Edge -> Reverse Flourish -> Aeolian Edge -> Meditate +hits (OA2-4 offhand) -> Aeolian Edge kills everything and takes <30 seconds (unless the monsters are being dicks and running through my body). Checking chests is always the bad part.

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There are tons of jobs that do AoE burning better than WAR, WAR just does it fastest provided enough support.

BLM, BLU, DNC, THF, NIN, MNK(MNK takes as much support/more support than war though) can all do it provided with correct gear and/or atma, and to a lesser extent RDM can do it with Chainspell (and just nuking the crap out of everything you see, instead of pulling/waiting)

I personally do it on BLU solo, though it takes a bit longer because of buffs/sleep/debuffs. WAR+RDM or WAR+WHM+fisherman I believe is the fastest, since mighty strikes + FC = 1hit, or so close to 1hit banishga II could finish them.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

There are tons of jobs that do AoE burning better than WAR, WAR just does it fastest provided enough support.

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WAR can also do it solo, just not quite as well. As I said, if you don't go for the one-shot, pull a bunch of penguins, with 3x Def/Regen Atma on and full PDT gear and Defender, still only takes 3 or 4 WS to kill mobs, which is still only 10-15 seconds. And while you open chests and wait for repops, the Regen is enough to cure you back up. That's why I find it unnecessary to gear amazingly for FC burns. I used to pull and cleave both on WAR, with a semi-afk WHM on the side, did it without any problems and it was fast and efficient. This doesn't work with all mobs of course, but weak hitting mobs like mandies or penguins or chigoes, you'll have it really easy on WAR.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

WAR can also do it solo, just not quite as well. As I said, if you don't go for the one-shot, pull a bunch of penguins, with 3x Def/Regen Atma on and full PDT gear and Defender, still only takes 3 or 4 WS to kill mobs, which is still only 10-15 seconds. And while you open chests and wait for repops, the Regen is enough to cure you back up. That's why I find it unnecessary to gear amazingly for FC burns. I used to pull and cleave both on WAR, with a semi-afk WHM on the side, did it without any problems and it was fast and efficient. This doesn't work with all mobs of course, but weak hitting mobs like mandies or penguins or chigoes, you'll have it really easy on WAR.

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I'm never able to do this because I never just go to cleave if I'm on WAR, so I wouldn't know, although I've used a similar method to skill up.