Since my last thread got kinda a vague answer then gave us more instanced content i decided id ask again more specifically: will there be (at any point) new world spawning HNM with long windows? Such as old 3 kings system, SW/DI, Aht urghan kings,or CoP Wyrms. At the moment many of my friends are quiting because everything worth doing is instanced. I miss the rush from claiming over competition so do they. Has there been any discussion on this matter even? I was assuming by Lv99 or a few updates after Lv99 there would be at least 1-3 new HNM that were campable with 20hr+ windows. So anyway question stands to the FFXI development team: will there be any new world spawning HNM for us to hunt? Or are all "HNM" from now on gonna be instanced events(??? pops, BCNM ect.)?
This is not a flame anti HNM thread, complaints are to be taken elsewhere please. :)
World spawning HNM
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05-28-2011, 02:25 PMNatennWorld spawning HNM
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05-28-2011, 09:06 PMKudlee
Hopefully I won't come off as rude as this is not my intention, but... your friends are upset enough to quit simply because they can't block other people from getting a NM they want?
This situation seems exactly the type of thing SE is trying to avoid in future content. Otherwise, I don't see why they changed the 3 kings and added voidwatch. Unfortunately (for you), the new content seems to suggest a departure from that old system and I'd say most people probably welcome it.
That said, I can understand longing for a time when rare items really were "rare." Even if you never got some uber piece of gear, it was something to work towards. -
05-28-2011, 11:32 PMAndrien
OT:
I hope not. I've seen my share of people leave mules in certain zones, some even lived there. Personally I don't like the game to play me, I prefer to play the game instead. -
05-29-2011, 12:45 AMRaksha
poll over on BG:
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/9776/63179354.jpg -
05-29-2011, 01:04 AMSureal
hi, WORLD POP HNMS ARE A BAD IDEA, ALWAYS WERE, AS WAS SAID IN YOUR LAST THREAD OVER AND OVER, AND WILL BE SAID IN THIS THREAD OVER AND OVER
YOU WANT TO HAVE SOMETHING TO LORD OVER OTHER PLAYERS
WORLD POP HNMS NEED TO DIE IN A FIRE -
05-29-2011, 02:27 AMNatenn
Stop derailing the thread and telling ppl to go die.
This is not a flame anti HNM thread, complaints are to be taken elsewhere please. -
05-29-2011, 02:32 AMSureal
sorry, i feel very passionately about this, and as proven on bg, where people WHO DO THESE THINGS, exist on a much larger scale than here, so do a lot of other people, and as long as you continue to insist making these threads, i will insist on coming to put my 2 cents in
and since when are world pop hnms considered players? -
05-29-2011, 02:40 AMwish12ozThis is the second best post ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureal
To the OP, I'm sorry your friends quit because they suddenly couldn't bot their way to being leet and actually have to work for it in the new system, but I really hope they don't add new versions of the old crap content pretty much everyone hated. If SE could actually do something about bots, I wouldn't mind. Legitimately claiming stuff was always fun, and it's fun to be in the LS everyone is checking while fighting stuff and they QQ in say at you, but that part of FFXI is over, leave it dead and move on. -
05-29-2011, 02:49 AMSureal
but he doesnt bot, he plays on ps2 >.>
hes just better than you, thats all -
05-29-2011, 03:18 AMwish12ozI laughed harder then I should of at this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureal
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05-29-2011, 03:49 AMAnewie
According to BG, although there is a dislike for HNMs, there very clearly is still a desire for them.
It's not one sided, it's just a lot of people don't use these boards.
I think people DO WANT new world NM/HNMs, they just don't want them to encourage cheating.
A rare HNM should only take 12-24hrs to spawn and it should pop in various areas and zones to avoid monopolization.
The drops shouldn't be the best, more so alternatives or situational gear or gil items. This will avoid the nessicary to bot them. It's obvious more are against it, but according to that poll, is anything but on sided.
People do want them and enough want them that they should be added. I just don't think the people who dont want them should feel forced to camp them.
It should be something fun to add.
P.S to those derailing, stop please. I want to see a dev respond to this. -
05-29-2011, 03:55 AMNynja
No more 24 hour freespawn garbage :\ They were never fun
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05-29-2011, 04:25 AMNatenn
Fun for me. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it should be done away with cause you don't wanna compete.
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05-29-2011, 04:51 AMSureal
-.- havent we been over this, THERE IS NO COMPETITION, its who has the best bots
end of story
unless of course your on ps2, and then well its GAME ON lol -
05-29-2011, 04:52 AMNynja
That must be why SE lowered the respawn times of abyssea NM's from 30-60 to 10-15, because players were having fun!
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05-29-2011, 05:20 AMAnewie
btw Natenn, i suggest if you really want a response, you should delete this thread and post it in general discussion. They don't respond much in battle content. you should also post the poll in that thread on bg as well. According to that poll About 1 in 3 people want new NM/HNM and the devs should know be aware of it. They also should be aware of what we don;t want if they chose to add them.
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05-29-2011, 06:43 PMArlan
Hell NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
World Spawn HNMs that repop every 21-24 hours with LOW Drop rates Can Burn in the pit of FIRE!
I enjoy how the NMs are more accessable for a lot of players who just want to long on and get a chance on playing them.
But limiting on who can put the time to get on game to claim an NM that everyone else wants for a small chance of getting a good gear is just plain wrong. -
05-29-2011, 11:42 PMNatenn
Handing out good gear to bad players is wrong.
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05-29-2011, 11:59 PMSureal
good god natenn, did you not read the last thread, GILSELLERS HAD DROPS OFF KINGS, guess they were good players huh
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05-30-2011, 12:04 AMNatenn
RMT died out years ago in HNM scene.
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05-30-2011, 01:35 AMNynjaYou really think its only the cream of the crop with D.Rings, Ridills, E.Bodies in 2005? Really? You think its just the best players who killed kings?Quote:
Originally Posted by Natenn
Hey, I guess its only the best NHL players who win stanley cups, because after all only good players win the final trophy. I guess that means Eric Godard is a better player than Alex Ovechkin because Godard has won a cup.
Hey, I guess its ok to live in the stone age of 72 hour HNM's. So do us a favor and move to an amish land where they dont use electricity since you love living in the past so much. Times have changed, time to move on.
Sorry for the stupid RL analogy, but the only way to communicate with stupid is by stupid. -
05-30-2011, 02:40 AMwish12ozHanding out good gear to only those people whose LS spent $2000->$5000 on a bot is wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Natenn
nasa/arenz/kaces/etc -looking at you!
Except from the actual players themselves when they quit or need a quick buck?Quote:
Originally Posted by Natenn
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05-30-2011, 03:38 AMRomanova
Only good thing about HNMs were that they gave me time to shave my legs.
That is all. -
05-30-2011, 05:23 AMArlanRight now, SE is Not handing out good gear to bad players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Natenn
SE is providing ALL Players "A CHANCE" to do actual contents to "EARN" our good gear.
Handing out good gear is like SE giving it to you in your delivery box. This is not the case.
HNM repop 21-24 hours spawn should die permanently idc. I wana be able to experience the game too and not be limited because people like you who may have all the time in the world to schedule their RL schedules to play a game can only do the NMs that drop the gear I want too. -
05-30-2011, 05:30 AMArlanNynja couldn't say it any better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nynja
What makes a good game, a good game is when it is accessable for all players/customers to be able to enjoy rather than being limited in "TIME".
People log on to play the game, not for the game to play them.
When you have to log into a game just because an HNM is about to pop and you must be there before other players claim, then the game is Controlling you and your Real life. The game is playing you!
I like it now how I can play the game when I want to and where I want to without being told by the game when I need to be on just to get the a chance.
btw.. 72hour repop is just plain BS...
It's gotta go. -
05-30-2011, 06:05 AMMiitanBut handing out good gear to botters is perfectly fine, amirite?Quote:
Originally Posted by Natenn
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05-30-2011, 06:52 AMNatenn
Id bet most of the people who cry bots never had any evidence, you lose and just go "bots whaaaa its impossible for me to lose ill just say they botted cause i didn't claim". Can deny it all you want but we all know its true, even i QQed time to time about ppl botting but i had no evidence. I just wanted an excuse to save face for losing claims. Now i'll admit bots were a problem at kings but you can't bot outside kings to a point where you can blaim failing to claim alot bc of bots. SW and DI would be unclaimed at least a few minutes so theres no excuse other then you just got beat to claim.If you had no powder boots or movement speed while camping those two you were never gonna claim unless it popped on top of you. Don't blame w/e PC program that lets you see dead bodys either im on PS2 and i beat the tar out of ppl who did use it, why? Because my LS was prepared, alert, ready, and knew what to do/how to kite for a few minutes. So don't try to pin it all on bots.
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05-30-2011, 07:05 AMNatenn
Alot of ppl WANT this, just bc they don't post here doesn't mean you are 100% right. And what i choose to do with my time is my choice, if i wanna camp a 21hr to 24hr or a 72hr repop HNM i should be able to, its my buisness not anyone elses.
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05-30-2011, 07:17 AMNynja
Thats a pretty good argument. "I have people who support my position, theyre just not speaking up". By that notion, you can win any debate or argument or whatever...
DI and Sandworm cant be botted? Might want to do a little more research into that...because while it couldnt be bot claimed, it was definately made positible for one group to have an advantage over others, and it wasnt 9 rangers in 9 zones spamming widescan. -
05-30-2011, 07:19 AMRomanovaQuote:
Originally Posted by Natenn
Hitting the X button on a ps2 without a bot still doesn't make you a better player and "deserve" better gear over it, while excluding the other 95% of the playerbase.
This is comes down to the real point people are trying to make, not botting. -
05-30-2011, 07:36 AMNatenn
Like i said my buisness, not yours. You go tell SE what you want to be added that is fun for you and stop attacking other ppl for their ideas, so many ppl need to stop hating.
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05-30-2011, 07:53 AMAnewieQuote:
Originally Posted by Nynja
DI and SW were about as fair game as it should get. No one has the right to complain about them. Sure, people could cheat using a scan, but a lot of people use that program, not just for scanning. You couldn't bot di/sw and they were for the most part, claimed by the group that had the most focused group of people. That alone made it the most fair game HNM.
A group of dedicated scanners would almost always beat a group of the same size OR more that simply deathspot scanned. Why? Because you could not bot claim it. A group of very focused individuals has a much greater advantage over a group relying on programs, if claiming is not an issue. Finding it was and that is how rare HNM should be.
Dspot scanning will only tell you WHEN it pops, but because the area and range of pops was so massive, it made no difference, but in fact, crippled a deathspot svanner UNLESS he subbed or mained rng or bst.
A non deathspot scanner will trump that person most likely, because they already hav widescan. They might not know the very second it pops, but that offers no real advantage if you dont sub widescan. Most jobs cant sub rng or bst and claim those mobs and survive before tank zones in.
Don't talk about di/sw like you know. It was nothing like kings. Those mobs were about as fair as they come. Only cheating thing was ppl deathscanning and it didnt help them much against competition, so stop using that as an excuse. If you wanna throw down the too long of a repop and not having the resources, fine. But ixion and sandworm were not dominated because of cheating. They were dominated because groups were organized and worked hard to claim them, it did require skill against tough comp.
adding more mobs like di/sw is perfect. khim,cerb popped like kings but theyre drops were not amazing, so most ppl outside hnm shells couldnt have cared that much i think. I welcome new mobs that pop like kings/khim etc as long as they dont give their loot something ppl need to have to be the best. A trophy like hauteclaire or algol or gil is appropriate.
People make the mistake of not making their complaint clear. You don't really care about HNMs. You care about having to do them for drops you need or really want. Asking the devs to not add new world rare hnm/nm is unreasonable, instead u guys should be encouraging them to offer a different variety of ways of obtaining the loot (kings - einherjar or etc) or not making their loot r/e or nessicary. A lot of people genuinally enjoy rare NM and i was one of them.
I just dont enjoy how give them the best loot and then i feel forced to do it.
Lets use ixion cloak for example. When that came out, everyone was like "wow nice!". I wasn't in an hnmls at the time and i didnt have time to play much. I was in a einherjar and salvage ls tho and ixion cloak was AHable. Now i still wanted it, but i really didnt care. I wasn't sad or upset because I was in line for morrigans or dalmatica, which can use a headpiece. I wanted ixion cloak just cause it was pretty.
My point is, some of you need to really look at what you want and dont want and stop being afraid of being left out, when you resally wont be. The king generation is over. They wont go back to that, but bitching about HNM in general is kind of unwarranted because only kings and tiamat were really an issue as ive said.
Nynja, did u really care about ixion/sw gear outside the other much more available gears that were just as good or better situationally? Ancient torque is better than Pcharm but not by much and it wasmuch morwe rare and a hassle. It was a trophy piece for people who put forth the effort. Only a small upgrade from a increddibly common item you could have easily gotten. All it showed was that they got a tiny bit better upgrade for much more work. Why did they care? Some people love that type of content. Going that extreme extra mile even for small upgrade. If they dont offer it, it defeats the whole princible.
I'm not saying you should love hardcore content like that, but comparing the later HNMs to the dawn age HNMs is silly. Because not only were the drops only situationally better, they either werent better or better by a small bit. They were only toys for the "elite". The gap between king/tiamat gear and what was available was so much massive than the gap between khim,cerb,di,sw gear and what was more available.
Notice how no one camped Vrtra or Jorm? Why didn't anyone complain about those NMs? Seriously. Because their drops weren't needed or wanted very much. But why? Vrtra dropped mats for the best brd body in game.. and Jorm dropped "Kraken" pole. So why are they always up? I'm only making the point that it's NOT RARE HNM that is the issue, its the drops.
People can argue "well the old mobs are still there, just do those!", That's true but the game has grown and people want new mobs just as much as new gear. Ix/sw/tia gear is still worth a lot and u can three man them. Why don't we do that? That content is old and I don;t think it's unreasonable to ask for new ones, Nobody is asking for NEW KINGS. Who wants that? Nobody really wants to go back to the bot generation, not even the hardcore people. We've all grown, but the rare spawn mobs have always been a great source of fun in game and since the game is moving up, they should compensate for the lost of interest in the later and older NMs. Not just the standard HNM either.
Cassie,serket,sim,roc,bune,overlord,cactrot,arthro etc etc, were all a lot of fun once SE started booting rmt, why not find replacements for these? All Im saying is, this isnt just about those standrd hnm. rare spawn nm should play a part in the new endgame as its part of what made the game fun and interesting for some people. It doesn't have to all be like it was in the stone age, though.
EDIT: my definition of elite is not a better player, but more so one who will always go that extra mile, minus cheating, to have the nicest item or gear. -
05-30-2011, 08:24 AMNynja
tl;dr
But if you think having 9 rangers widescanning for 5 days is more efficient than 9 possibly afk bots tracking death location and immediately reporting over LS chat that the NM is up and in which area...then sure lol -
05-30-2011, 09:37 AMAnewieSorry but, anyone who ever camped di/sw is laughing at you. You clearly have no idea how they were camped or work.. Yes a focused non deathspot scan rng > a deathspot scanner. DP doesn't tell u where it pops.. it just tells u WHEN, u still have to scan for it using WIDESCAN once it pops. The ONLY advantage is not having to continue to hit the map and widescan keys to pull up the scan menu. It was simply a convenience issue with death scanning and ANY other group who had focused people already checking widescan every minute, was just as good if not better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nynja
You just have no idea if u disagree. I was in a shell that put more effort into actual rng scanning and no matter what comp came, we still had an equal chance because their tool was only a convenience, and one that could hurt them. That tool only really worked well with no competition.
For example, since you know so much Nyn, whos gonna win claim, A.. hmm RDM/NIN deathspot scanning or a BST/NIN? Well seeing as how the dp scanner, didn't have widescan, more likely the BST. You can argue the dp scanners used /rng or /bst often but then u would just look more silly because if u had actually camped them ud know sandworm went unclaimed often when kitting. U'd also know di cannot be kited.
U might wanna stop using di/sw as an example because u simply dont know wtf ur talking about, and most people with experience will agree with me. I'm all for bringing to the table, intelligent argument about wehy things shouldn't or should exist, (ala Karbuncle,Leonheart, good points/posters who i disagree with) but dont talk about bots as if you know how they work, when you clearly don't. You simply couldnt cheat to win di/sw, and if u tried against competition, ud probably lose. It requires focus, that is a fact. Even for death scanning. -
05-30-2011, 10:31 AMNatenn
Excellent wording as usual Anwie!
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05-30-2011, 10:40 AMRomanovathat's fine, but you were attacking others for talking about bots and hnms which is just as a valid complaint as yours. Don't tell people not to attack and hate, then turn around and do the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Natenn
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05-30-2011, 11:44 AMAnewie
If you've ever met natenn or surreal, ud know they are not only very good people but good players too. The interesting thing is, here at two respected players who will fight and argue about something in game. This is something SE wants to avoid. They want us to get along and not push eachother.
The problem with that is, Final Fantasy XI up until a year ago was a game built around the type of player who would put an unreasonable amount of effort into making progress on goals and obtaining gear.
That was almost ten years ago, and as i said up until a year ago, everything was the same for 8-9 years. As an 8 year player who just quit this month for the first time, I can give you an honest answer as to why. It's not cause i wanna be better than everyone. It's not because I want to have the best but its available to everyone. I am not a cheater, im not a loser and im not a c*ckblocker.
I don't like MMOs. I've never found them ientertaining of fun enough. It's quite bizare to explain but The NM/HNM hunting. of ffxi kepts me playing for years. I didn't enjoy watching my ls beat some random shell to claim, who were obviously newer to the endgame scene. Did I knowingly partake in shells that had botters in them and profited? Of course, but the thing is, I was a camper before i joined hnm shells. It's one of the exciting and fun things about the game. It was the single most exciting about it. I simply enjoy camping those rare long spawn.
I do have a limit though and a life. Im happy married and in college again. I already went and got a degree before but I wanted to go back for other reasons. My point? I have a life and couldnt commit to camping, but it was the most exciting and relaxing thing for me to do in game when I was free.
Like Natenn, I play primarily on ps2/3. Did I or can i consistantly beat a bot to claim on fafnir? Of course not... But I didn't and don't enjoy kings nearly as much as Tia,cerb,khim,di,serket,casie,ob,arthro etc. I have killed and hunted probably id say anywhere from 90-95% of all free spawn NM/HNM in game :P. Made it a goal when I was nooby to go through wiki and kill them all, haha.
How many of those NMs dropped gear that i could actually use? not nearly enough to warrant me to hunt them outside pure entertainment. Most of it was sold to fund relics and the only king stuff i got was zenith.
Natenn seems bad at wording it, so I'll say it in a way I think he means it better, he enjoys that type of content like me. It doesnt make him a loser, a cheater or someone who JUST WANTS TO BEAT YOU.
And as long as it doesnt go in the LAND KING direction.(pops once a week, Spawns in a corner with a sign that reads "TAG ME!" and drops the best gear in game)
Why do you guys really care? Why not let the camping community compete for their toys? Thats a legitimate question. You dont enjoy camping and the idea of racing or hunting, a rare bad ass mob doesnt entertain you.
I think the answer is simply, you either don't 1. wanna have to worry about camping for the best gear or you don't want to feel left out from 2. fighting a new and exciting mob.
1. I want everyone who reads this post, who "cared" about Khimaira, Cerberus, Ixion or Sandworm to post and say you actually had a very hard time camping these mobs and u legitimately cared about the drops enough that you would actually be dissapointed if they added something like that again. Feel free to throw it in my face and say idk what im talking about, but im willing to bet the only people who really cared about those mobs are in fact, the hnm camping community. Everyone else couldn't have cared and it's not hard to know why. I wont use kings and tiamat because those drops were/are te absolute best and there weren't much of any alternatives. The drops from those mobs were not Luxury or toys. They were a necessity to be seen as above "above average".
2. The whole point and concept of enjoying the fight of those mobs, lies within their exclusivity. The drops aren't nearly as exclusive as the mobs. To say you want to fight them and don't enjoy camping them, would defeat the very purpose in them being rare or exclusive. This is where it gets complicated, because you say its unfair for SE to add content that you cannot do, when in fact, you more than likely don't enjoy it anyway. FFXI has always had rare spawns and they were a prime source of entertainment. The only issue with it was having people revolve around it to be top tier.
If they can avoid making the new endgame revolve around it, but more so add them in to satisfy that player base, theres absolutley no unreasonable reason why they shouldn't add them. You asking them to not add content just bcause you don't enjoy it, is quite bogus. I do and did enjoy it occasionally, even IF i didn't have the time for it. What makes you better and more worth content you enjoy than me?
Why are you concerned with what I enjoy and request to be implimented? No matter what it is. If you don't enjoy it, and you have gear and options elsewhere that are satisfying enough to establish you, why do you care? I'm not paying in the stone ages but you have the mindset of one. The game has come a long way and I am certain they won't give spawns the absolute best gear. Sure, theyll give thme really neat toys, but stop acting like you seriously care but you don't. You're just afraid of not having accessability.
Fact check, you have plenty of it and more of it will come. -
05-30-2011, 12:47 PMwish12ozThis is actually incorrect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anewie
There were some programs that probably just weren't on your server. There was one in particular, it displayed an LS message when stuff would pop, saying what the mob was and what zone it was in, AND it would give you an arrow showing you which direction it was from you, and this all happened immediately when it spawned. If that didn't give you a bigger advantage over anyone and make you get claims 99% of the time, you were afk.
DI is about the easiest mob in the game to kite. If you ever fought it you would probably know this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anewie
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05-30-2011, 01:00 PMNynja
I stopped communicating with these two....
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05-30-2011, 02:33 PMAnewieLmao, cause @ +250 movement speed, it was just so easy for ppl to kite. This is complete bs and you and Nyn are trolling.Quote:
Originally Posted by wish12oz
And what was the name of this supposed program that would magically know what a complete other zone has up? Or did you mean a person in a zone standing at a deathspot and being able to call out pop? with this program having the arrow or w.e point out? I'm gonna clarify this on bg because it was my understanding there was a range limit on this program. I knew spot scanners and they still needed widescan. They would say the print moved, but they didn't know where it popped.
If you're saying theres a program that can tell you a mob is up from any zone, i'm def calling bs on you. It's not possible for a program in xx zone to know what is up and where in another xx zone and saying DI was kiteable, lol.
Ixion runs at +75-250% movement speed with addition effects of en-bind and en-gravity. Mind telling me how he was so kiteable if you cannot outrun him, elegy and slow are basically pointless (he attacks fast) and has a high proc rate on en bind/gravity? Please get back to me on this.