[Suggestion] Job Trait - Reduce spell cost/cast time after WS

Dark Knight Job Ability.

Dark Rush: Reduces both the Cast Time and MP cost of the next spell.

*Dark Rush is obtained as a "charge" after using a weapon skill.
**Optionally Dark Rush may wear off after 30 seconds after a Weapin Skill.

Dark Rush I:
Casting time -15%, MP cost -15%
Obtained: Dark Knight Level 30

Dark Rush II:
Casting time -30%, MP cost -30%
Obtained: Dark Knight Level 45

Dark Rush III:
Casting time -45%, MP cost -45%
Obtained: Dark Knight Level 60

Dark Rush IV:
Casting time -60%, MP cost -60%
Obtained: Dark Knight Level 75

Dark Rush V:
Casting time -75%, MP cost -75%
Obtained: Dark Knight Level 90

This will help Dark Knight utilize all spells in its aresenal and get those Magic Bursts out after a skill chain.

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Originally Posted by Madawc

Dark Rush V:
Casting time -75%, MP cost -75%
Obtained: Dark Knight Level 90

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Not gonna happen. Would have to be more reasonable.

overall stupid idea

I think a mild "dark magic" only fastcast with several tiers would be cool. If low enough, subbing /DRK and haste caps could keeps this job trait in-line.
Or, something with "dark magic" accuracy for darkkinghts trait. Then again "dark seal" and that other /JA exist.

You might have been lucky getting the fast cast effect on Dark Spells only, but you'll never get the 75% MP cost or it on any other spells.

DRKs will never cast elemental spells the way it is now. I highly doubt DRK will ever get enough MAB/MACC to even match normal melee dps, which must be rediculously much.

This trait can solve so much. Too many years have gone by without a fix.

I'd love to whip out a Thunder III after I close a Skill Chain. But 128 MP and 6.75 seconds is just too much. Our MAB/MACC is too weak to even consider it. As I see it, either boost MAB/MACC or boost FastCast/-MPcost. And if I had to guess, giving DRK more MAB/MACC then BLM is out of the question.

We already have five tiers of Occult Acumen, equipment with Magic Attack Bonus, the possibility of using red mage as a support job for Fast Cast, the possibility of using scholar as a support job for Dark Arts and its Stratagems, Dark Seal, Nether Void, the Twilight cloak and its Impact spell, and you still aren't satisfied?

Elemental magic is not the focus of the dark knight. Physical damage is, with dark magic to support that. You should be grateful Occult Acumen even works with elemental magic. If you want to use elemental magic so badly, just become a black mage or scholar and be done with it. As a dark knight, however, you should only be Magic Bursting with elemental magic when you're soloing, or using it to find yellow weakness triggers in Abyssea or Voidwatch.

By the way, Madawc, you need to visit this link as soon as possible.

It is not that I want to use elemental magic so badly, it is because we have a potential which is unused. Yes we can sub RDM or SCH, but that will only gimp us melee wise and reduce our overall effecitveness. While other melee jobs get full benefit of all their abilities, we are held back. We are supposed to be a combo of WAR and BLM, using both "sides" to cripple the enemy.

Occult Acumen, diabolic eye, nether void, dark seal; I would trade them all for Dark Rush! Thats how useless they are to me.

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Originally Posted by Madawc

It is not that I want to use elemental magic so badly, it is because we have a potential which is unused. Yes we can sub RDM or SCH, but that will only gimp us melee wise and reduce our overall effecitveness. While other melee jobs get full benefit of all their abilities, we are held back. We are supposed to be a combo of WAR and BLM, using both "sides" to cripple the enemy.

Occult Acumen, diabolic eye, nether void, dark seal; I would trade them all for Dark Rush! Thats how useless they are to me.

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yeah or we could stop asking the development team for things like this and we might see another buff to our melee side...... you know the side we have that matters.

just pointless to post crap like this

also close the thread there is no new information happening its just flaming so close it.

First of all, our potential with elemental magic has to be lower than any other job, red mages included, because we're mainly a melee job. Why? Because we're not mages. We don't spam magic. We aren't supposed to. You just go Dark Seal, Nether Void, Drain II, Dread Spikes, and Endark, and you're done casting spells for a long time. This is not true for mages. Mages have magic and very little else. The only reason scholars even get Occult Acumen is Myrkr and Spirit Taker.

Secondly, how in the world did Diabolic Eye get into this conversation? It has nothing to do with magic.

I do agree that our magic needs to be fixed, but Dark Rush won't solve anything. It'll just make us gimpy black mages, and we don't want that. Our Absorb spells need to be fixed, Dread Spikes needs a buff on duration, and if you absolutely must insist on an elemental magic buff, then I'd prefer a job trait that let us instant-cast elemental magic when a skillchain occurs.

I don't think making DRK look MORE like other melee jobs will even be considered. All jobs have their own twist on doing things, for DRK it is melee+magic.

SE has made some futile attempts before to make us use more magic (i.e reduced absorb cast time, Dark Seal, Occult Acumen, Nether Void). Frankly no one I know has been using more spells as a result of these implementations. Infact people have been using LESS spells since the introduction of hasso.

If SE really wanted to balance DRK out with the other jobs melee wise, we would see Souleater having a 30 minute duration and a ton of "enhances Stalwart Soul" items available.

I say it is time for a permanent fix; namely Dark Rush! :)

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Originally Posted by Madawc

I don't think making DRK look MORE like other melee jobs will even be considered. All jobs have their own twist on doing things, for DRK it is melee+magic.

SE has made some futile attempts before to make us use more magic (i.e reduced absorb cast time, Dark Seal, Occult Acumen, Nether Void). Frankly no one I know has been using more spells as a result of these implementations. Infact people have been using LESS spells since the introduction of hasso.

If SE really wanted to balance DRK out with the other jobs melee wise, we would see Souleater having a 30 minute duration and a ton of "enhances Stalwart Soul" items available.

I say it is time for a permanent fix; namely Dark Rush! :)

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or they could give us a physical nitch like say being able to ignore cratio or a boosted PDIF cap fstr cap alot of caps they could boost with job traits for only DRK....

Magic isnt one they should even try though. we have what we need in that regard a bit more enfeebling would be nice for some things but overall we have enough Absorb spells could indeed be fixed though.

just pointless to ask for this because i still wouldnt cast even if we had it.. why ask for worthless things..

I can see where you are coming from. But I've always thought of DRK as beeing a "WAR-1" on the melee side. We should'nt really do more melee damage then WAR or for that matter the same. Because, thats what WARs do, do melee damage (and the occasional tank).

I see DRG as a "WAR-1" where the wyvern makes up for lost damage.
I see SAM as "WAR-1" where TP gain makes up for lost damage.
I see THF as "WAR-1" where SATA makes up for lost damage.
And I see DRK as "WAR-1" where magic makes up for lost damage.

I am not trying to make DRK like the "jack of all traits: RDM". I am simply trying to embrace the philosophy SE laid out 9 years ago. MP is just sitting there, why not whip out a Thunder III after a WS for a 1k MB! With todays update notes; that enemies will have weakended resistance during MB window makes this even more viable.

While you make the argument that if I want to cast more spells I should play RDM; I could easily make the same counter argument that if you want to do more melee damage you should play WAR :)

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Originally Posted by Madawc

I can see where you are coming from. But I've always thought of DRK as beeing a "WAR-1" on the melee side. We should'nt really do more melee damage then WAR or for that matter the same. Because, thats what WARs do, do melee damage (and the occasional tank).

I see DRG as a "WAR-1" where the wyvern makes up for lost damage.
I see SAM as "WAR-1" where TP gain makes up for lost damage.
I see THF as "WAR-1" where SATA makes up for lost damage.
And I see DRK as "WAR-1" where magic makes up for lost damage.

I am not trying to make DRK like the "jack of all traits: RDM". I am simply trying to embrace the philosophy SE laid out 9 years ago. MP is just sitting there, why not whip out a Thunder III after a WS for a 1k MB! With todays update notes; that enemies will have weakended resistance during MB window makes this even more viable.

While you make the argument that if I want to cast more spells I should play RDM; I could easily make the same counter argument that if you want to do more melee damage you should play WAR :)

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Dark magic or GTFO i vote they just remove all elemental outright and fix our darkmagic/add more.

oh hell no. i skilled up elemental on drk so much for my blm that I lvl'd.

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Originally Posted by Jar

Dark magic or GTFO i vote they just remove all elemental outright and fix our darkmagic/add more.

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Yes and No. I thought the same for a while. But we got B+ Elemental Magic rating, and it should be put to use IMO. It is just a matter of HOW to get DRK to use them. People want a dark equivalent to Holy, but never think to use the elemental spells which are there for exactly that purpose. Well they wish to have damage spells with quick casting time, so why not supply us with Dark Rush!

Madawc, I get the feeling you're as stubborn as me. That is to say, extremely. You mention Dark Rush in every damn post, it's getting annoying. At the later tiers, it just gets too game-breaking. It needs to be toned down. I'd say 50% at the highest tier, and even that's stretching it. If it worked solely for elemental and enfeebling magic, then maybe 75% would be viable, but it absolutely breaks our dark magic as it is.

If they modified the nerf they put on Absorb-TP so that it only applied with dark knight as a support job, like they did with Souleater, increased the duration on Dread Spikes, and removed the hidden effect of Endark that prevents your weapon's additional and hidden effects from working (i.e., the Twilight scythe's Death effect), then that would be good enough for me.

I don't think this is game-breaking compared to how insane other jobs have become, or will become at lv99. With a weak WS and no DA/TA/STP trait, the only thing DRK brings to the table is a mere stun. Other jobs can do our job better but they lack stun.

Of course SE needs to test it at 75% and tweak it from there. I only suggest this value because we need to be able to get Thunder III off before MB window closes if we end a SC.

I also wish for some specific adjustment to DRK myself;
more Catastrophe damage,
excess HP drained from Catastrophe to be stacked with Drain2 or added to next attack as damage,
aftermath haste in magic or its own catagory,
longer Souleater duration,
longer Dread Spikes duration,
more defence bonus,
EnDrain... and more.

But SE has let me down for 8 years now.

8 years? Apparantly you missed 07-09

apoc drk tanking was one of the most desired elements for any endgame shell that didn't suck

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Originally Posted by Dart

8 years? Apparantly you missed 07-09

apoc drk tanking was one of the most desired elements for any endgame shell that didn't suck

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Huh? My linkshell never desired a apoc DRK tank since it doesn't really let u kill anything u couldn't before

Kclub DRK maybe (not tank ofc)

completely missed the bus

I'd like to note that the prestelame +2 is now the zerging weapon of choice, outclassing the kraken club.

At any rate, I think you expect a bit too much, Madawc. Dark Rush, as you describe it, would break the game, regardless of what your opinion may be on the matter.

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Originally Posted by Cruentus

I'd like to note that the prestelame +2 is now the zerging weapon of choice, outclassing the kraken club.

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lol how ? u attack slower and do less hits so u do more ?

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

lol how ? u attack slower and do less hits so u do more ?

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You hit harder and more often, given the difference in skill, you can use better equipment instead of wasting it on accuracy, and you can eat a red curry bun +1 instead of whatever the popular accuracy food is these days.

Common sense, Rezeak.

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Originally Posted by Cruentus

You hit harder and more often, given the difference in skill, you can use better equipment instead of wasting it on accuracy, and you can eat a red curry bun +1 instead of whatever the popular accuracy food is these days.

Common sense, Rezeak.

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Math > common sense

the actual damage of the swings does not offset the bonus attacks per round of a KC, This meaning that you hit faster/harder with a KC than the trialed 2-4 GS just on the fact that you have a much higher max attack per round and better delay, because most of the zerg damage comes from souleater not the physical hits. just incase you dont get this Example:
On avrg a KC will hit 5 times more(ish) in the same time as the GS meaning 5 more souleater damages the 5 extra hits deals much more than the physical damage the GS deals.

also the ACC/skill cmnt is a null value because a zerg group has multiple bards for haste/acc/att songs andddddd inb4 zerging is dead.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Madawc

DRKs will never cast elemental spells the way it is now. I highly doubt DRK will ever get enough MAB/MACC to even match normal melee dps, which must be rediculously much.

This trait can solve so much. Too many years have gone by without a fix.

I'd love to whip out a Thunder III after I close a Skill Chain. But 128 MP and 6.75 seconds is just too much. Our MAB/MACC is too weak to even consider it. As I see it, either boost MAB/MACC or boost FastCast/-MPcost. And if I had to guess, giving DRK more MAB/MACC then BLM is out of the question.

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It does have it's applications. some mobs change damage types or go invincible and we have the option to do some damage and gain tp while others do none. It could use a bit of a tweak for faster casting yes but i'm sure SE isn't trying to hear it.

or here's a shocker, mob uses invinc or PD and you

/shocked

cast absorb tp, and get 50-80 tp from it. Toss in a drain2 or aspir 2 is mp is a bit low from dread spikes (probably isn't so more than likely using drain/drain2) and by that time you can hit it again!

attacks per round cap at 8, until they implement another weapon with lower delay than kclub and that can cap out your attacks per round. Kclub is king for SE/BW zerg with marches/haste etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cruentus

You hit harder and more often, given the difference in skill, you can use better equipment instead of wasting it on accuracy, and you can eat a red curry bun +1 instead of whatever the popular accuracy food is these days.

Common sense, Rezeak.

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Well if i can acully do DMG to the mob i'll just use my empyrean thx since with Double attack and Aftermath proc means you can do X4 SE DMG and the base DMG is way way way way....way way higher.

But in a pure SE zerg sitituation u have a BRD or 2 there to cap acc and haste then u eat HP food and gear wise it's Gloom/sables then haste till cap then HP nothing to do with acc and thats a proper SE BW zerg and here KC > *

My my, so many people living in the past.

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Originally Posted by Cruentus

My my, so many people living in the past.

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Wanna take it to the present ok.

DRK/WAR with Apoc w/ Cala will get 15% triple attack 21% Da and there for 64% Single attacks
Which equals 1.3 attacks a round / 430 delay = 0.0030 attacks per delay

The 2-4 great sword is an average of 2.0ish times from the limited test done to OA2-4
2/480 = 0.0040 attacks per delay

So the 2-4 wins .... nope aftermath has at least a 30% proc rate (50% being cap on T3 Aftermath)
and 0.0030*1.30 = 0.0039
and 0.0030*1.50 = 0.0045

Either way from the limit testing done so far Cala > 2-4 great sword in abyssea.

So i'd rather zerg with the emp than the 2-4

Lastly Kclub gets about 3.8 attack rounds a swing
Kc @70% haste 3.8/79 = 0.048 attacks per delay
2-4 @ 80% haste 2/96 = 0.020 attacks per delay
So Kc will do 2.4x of what 2-4 can do in souleater DMG

So for every 1 the 2-4 does in SE DMG the kclub does 2.4

Meaning the +40 DMG(51-11) on the great sword would have to deal (HP*0.12)*1.4 a hit
at 2k HP it's 336 which 40 base dmg DMG can't possible do on any mob
but wait this is abyssea DRKs can hit 4k hp
so ur +40 DMG needs to deals 672 dmg a hit to keep up with kclub

Basically ur wrong.

i'll take reality over whatever fantasy world you live in. (this is not meant toward you rezeak)

i loled this isnt even a good read anymore just boring..

Honestly just give us a mirror of Holy that casts near instantly does about 300~ damage, with a cooldown of 1-2 minutes.

Make it increase the damage taken by the target from all incoming sources of damage by 5-10%.

Make it cost between 100-150 mp, and boom, with AF3+2 Boots and Oneiros belt looking at 24~ tp?

Give us two tiers of this if you want to get fancy.

Haste gear it, whatever making the cooldown to about a minute.


Does a swing's worth, some damage and instant TP, neat little debuff for the alliance. Useful during solo'ing.

This is the kind of stuff we need.