Sublimation: "You are unable to cast Refresh [II] on that character."

{Yes, please.}

Tired of wasting MP and having to wait to recast Refresh and/or Refresh II. I would really like a system implemented where one could not attain the effects of Refresh, if one were to be under the effect of Sublimation. To be more specific: Don't allow RDMs or anyone with the spell "Refresh" or "Refresh II" to be able to cast it on someone with "Sublimation: Charging" or "Sublimation: Charged" active in the first place. Please!

That is all. Thank you for your time.

I agree, I think this is a good idea.

Just tell them to stop using sublimation?

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Originally Posted by Alkalinehoe

Just tell them to stop using sublimation?

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But. I loves it. ;o

Besides, Its pretty dang useful outside of Abyssea with the Hat Club earrings and body that enhances it. ;o

I'd hardly ever use it inside abyssea unless we are dealing with mobs that sleep you.

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Originally Posted by Miera

But. I loves it. ;o

Besides, Its pretty dang useful outside of Abyssea with the Hat Club earrings and body that enhances it. ;o

I'd hardly ever use it inside abyssea unless we are dealing with mobs that sleep you.

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Refresh 2 would still trump it no? Or how much ticks can you get now? Only situation I wouldn't use Sublimation (WHM/SCH) is when i have a RDM, otherwise it's sublimation for me. I'm not saying Sublimation is bad.

Isn't it like 9 mp per tick for 2 HP at naked 90?

I don't think the subjob Sublimation gives the same effect as the main 90 Sublimation. I think it's probably 2 HP -> 4 MP, which still isn't anywhere near as good as Refresh II.

I'm more or less hating on the fact that it wastes a recast of Refresh II. It has a very long recast on its own, and Haste does little to make it less... well, lengthy. So I'd like for a similar system for Raises (which is still so confusing to me), wherein you can't cast Refresh on someone if they've got Sublimation on. It does nothing for the target - so why waste the caster's resources? And it's really (seemingly) easy to code - copy-paste what they have for Raise, and change it up a bit.

That's all I ask, really. I find it rude and inconvenient to always ask, "Do you have Sublimation on? I want to cast Refresh [II] on you." And that alone could spur some kind of disagreement. I'd rather not people waste their time on Sublimation when Refresh II is available (i.e. all the time mostly if I'm in the party). But some people are just ignorant, and arrogant at that!

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Originally Posted by Raxiaz

I don't think the subjob Sublimation gives the same effect as the main 90 Sublimation. I think it's probably 2 HP -> 4 MP, which still isn't anywhere near as good as Refresh II.

I'm more or less hating on the fact that it wastes a recast of Refresh II. It has a very long recast on its own, and Haste does little to make it less... well, lengthy. So I'd like for a similar system for Raises (which is still so confusing to me), wherein you can't cast Refresh on someone if they've got Sublimation on. It does nothing for the target - so why waste the caster's resources? And it's really (seemingly) easy to code - copy-paste what they have for Raise, and change it up a bit.

That's all I ask, really. I find it rude and inconvenient to always ask, "Do you have Sublimation on? I want to cast Refresh [II] on you." And that alone could spur some kind of disagreement. I'd rather not people waste their time on Sublimation when Refresh II is available (i.e. all the time mostly if I'm in the party). But some people are just ignorant, and arrogant at that!

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Subbed, Sublimation gives 2HP->3MP/tick. Obviously better to get Refresh2. Wiki states that SCH main gets 7/tick naturally. However they do get a lot of enhances sublimation gear so they can most likely hit quite higher than that. Either way, Sublimation main would outdo Refresh 2 (So stop bugging them to stop using it RDMs). But if it's someone who is /SCH, ask politely for them to stop using it and let you Refresh 2 them. If they don't want it, don't use it.

Sch still use sublimation?

Yeah, every time I've been annoyed with someone using Sublimation, it's always been a WHM, RDM, SMN, whoever subbing SCH. It's not like they're getting anything useful from it in Abyssea. And SCH mains know the deal - every time I've met a SCH, they're always gracious enough to let me know when Sub is down so I can cast Refresh II on them. Communication fixes the problem entirely - but that's asking too much of some people in this game.

If you are a good enough rdm that I don't have to wait 5 mins before asking for it and then another 3 mins before getting snappy about it, then more power to you. It has been a very long time since I have met a rdm that was good at keeping refresh on someone.

I do like the raise type idea.

This is stupid. Refresh overwrote sublimation the last time i got it unless the refresh gave less mp a tic than sublimation. This experience happened before SE altered sublimation so i could be wrong nowadays but even then there's the already mentioned solution of just talking to other people.

I like the idea of blocking the cast on someone with sublimation up. Especially for endgame doing split groups, the RDM isn't always in range of the WHM to see them use the ability (although RDM for endgame is sparse in Abyssea anyway).

And communication is always the best tool, but things get frantic, stuff happens, it gets late and people get sleepy or stop paying attention as much. Sublim/Refresh is a duality that shouldn't exist, and I'm really in favor of this suggestion.

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Originally Posted by Raxiaz

I'm more or less hating on the fact that it wastes a recast of Refresh II. It has a very long recast on its own, and Haste does little to make it less... well, lengthy.

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Wat. My refresh2 recast is like 12 seconds... thats hardly long.

Maybe you should try not sucking and learning to gear swap. Then you can macro in haste and fast cast equipment for your buffs.

Brilliant idea.

It shouldn't be too hard either, since you can't cast raise on live people I don't know why you can't carry that over to can't cast refresh on sublimation people.

Unnecessary. Your SCH should be communicating to you whether s/he is going to use sublimation or not. This is a problem that never has to happen if you just say something.

or just have Sublimation stack with Refresh I/II in the first place.

With atmas, hyped up Ballads, auto-refresh available on every slot, MP is just not some valuable commodity anymore that's designed to make things take longer by resting.

It wouldn't make a difference anymore if they stacked or not, so just make them stack.

It would be overpowered. They already made sublimation waaaaaay better than it used to be.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

It would be overpowered. They already made sublimation waaaaaay better than it used to be.

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More overpowered than minkin atma stacking with sublimation/refresh? surely you jest.

Sublimation already stacks with ballads/diabolos/evoker's roll.

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Originally Posted by Raksha

More overpowered than minkin atma stacking with sublimation/refresh? surely you jest.

Sublimation already stacks with ballads/diabolos/evoker's roll.

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Which makes me wonder why Refresh got shafted in this deal.

I do agree it would be nice if we couldn't cast on sublimated people, or stacked or what not. My solution was simple thou. Cast first refresh if they had sublimation up they were told I will refresh if they stop using it. Cast second refresh and if sublimation was still up that's it one less person to refresh. Doesn't effect game play that much didn't effect low man limbus or other timed events. If, after communication, they do not wish to trust in our refresh abilities I focus my attention else where.

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Originally Posted by Raxiaz

{Yes, please.}

Tired of wasting MP and having to wait to recast Refresh and/or Refresh II. I would really like a system implemented where one could not attain the effects of Refresh, if one were to be under the effect of Sublimation. To be more specific: Don't allow RDMs or anyone with the spell "Refresh" or "Refresh II" to be able to cast it on someone with "Sublimation: Charging" or "Sublimation: Charged" active in the first place. Please!

That is all. Thank you for your time.

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Here Here, dam good idea.

stop casting it on people with sublimation, theres your fix now stop whining

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Originally Posted by Carth

Which makes me wonder why Refresh got shafted in this deal.

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Huh, so you're saying Refresh doesn't stack with Ballad/Evoker's/Favor? I thought it did.

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Originally Posted by Alkalinehoe

Huh, so you're saying Refresh doesn't stack with Ballad/Evoker's/Favor? I thought it did.

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he's saying that refresh got shafted because It doesnt stack with sublimation, whereas Ballad/Evoker's/Favor didn't get shafted in this way.

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Originally Posted by Raksha

he's saying that refresh got shafted because It doesnt stack with sublimation, whereas Ballad/Evoker's/Favor didn't get shafted in this way.

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Oh i see. I don't think it got shafted at all. I mean there are other things RDMs can do besides Refresh... Ballad/Evoker's are from true support jobs and Favor reduces the avatar's DDing capabilities.

You can just macro sublimation to inform party members how it's being used:

/p [Sublimation] [Activate]

then

/p [Sublimation][Just Used It]

Suggesting it's a good idea to not refresh a person between those 2 macros unless you're a COR or BRD. Admittedly I've not done that, normally I tell a RDM to not worry about it as I normally keep on top of my MP. But I will take my own suggestion in case I eat my own words.

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Originally Posted by Alkalinehoe

Oh i see. I don't think it got shafted at all. I mean there are other things RDMs can do besides Refresh... Ballad/Evoker's are from true support jobs and Favor reduces the avatar's DDing capabilities.

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brd/sch can use sublimation + ballad on themselves
cor/sch can use sublimation + evoker's on themselves
smn/sch can use sublimation + favor on themselves
rdm/sch CAN NOT use sublimation + refresh on themselves.

This is what I call getting shafted.

Is it unfair? Meh probably not, but it would be nice to be consistent.

P.S. /sigh SE get some fixed-width fonts up in here.

What I'm concerned about, why do some of you red mages act like you deserve to know when their sublimation is down? Mind your own god damned business about their buffs and MP unless they ask you for Refresh II.

"Are you using sublimation or want refresh?"
"{Sublimation}? {Refresh}{Do you need it?} {Which?}"

難しいよ