Retaliation Question

Never really thought about it before, but... do Retaliations give enmity (the same as a normal attack would)? I would think yes, but.... can never tell, with SE...

I wondered that myself. Seeing how many similar features don't give enmity (additional effects, spike effects and counter), I don't think this works for retaliation either. It would be easy to test: tank 2 mobs, one by link, and retaliate on it once with a low damage weapon. Then have someone Cure IV you and see if they get hate.

I'm almost entirely sure that they don't, because I've been in a situation like what Arcon described and hate stays on me.

imo ret gives hate but don't switch on monster hate list if you were only on aggro/link list
easy test: get monsters (one puled one linked that hit you for 0 (get phalanxed/SSed if needed) voke linked mob, retatliate few times, when voke VE drop to 0 (30sec *war enmity) and have healer cure I for >1hp . if mob go on healer ret gives no hate, else it does

nah I can confirm both countering and retaliating do provide enmity.
Been in many situations where I counterstance tanking several mobs and a cureIV has pulled some of the mobs off me, and some of them stuck to me. Would depend on how many counters proc on each individual mob, and how much dmg/hits landed on me, for which mobs would turn on the healer and which would stay continuing to attack me.

Question is, is that just enmity being generated from the dmg done, or does a counter/retaliation have more/less enmity?

Retaliation hits give enmity.

Getting hit however reduces enmity.

So that's why even though your retaliating for like 700 damage you're still losing hate, because retaliation isn't 100% and the mob hits you more than you hit it.

Cure IV also pulls a lot of hate compared to V and VI

Again, pretty sure this is wrong. Put on Earth/Terra's staff and go pull a bunch of mandies with agro in Attohwa or Altepa. Retaliation tank one, and see if any of the unclaimed Mandies ever go for your healer. My experience is, they don't.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

Again, pretty sure this is wrong. Put on Earth/Terra's staff and go pull a bunch of mandies with agro in Attohwa or Altepa. Retaliation tank one, and see if any of the unclaimed Mandies ever go for your healer. My experience is, they don't.

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I've had them go for the healer, and had to provoke them multiple times. Using lady bell/sanguine shield, RDM healer using Cure IV. She ended up dying because of the agro...

I wasn't using any AoE WS either, since club doesn't have any.

Just tried it.

Aggrod a Gasher, targeted a Squib, retaliated on the Gasher.

First observation
It does not put you on the hate list (which isn't the same as not gaining enmity).

I retaliated twice, for 254 damage total, resulting in < 700 potential CE and 1100 potential VE. That would mean after getting hit for 1000 damage and waiting for 20 seconds should reduce total enmity to 1. Then I had a friend use Curing Waltz III for 375 HP, which means, if I was on the hate list, he would have gotten more than 2000 total enmity and pulled hate, which he didn't.

Second observation
It doesn't generate any enmity at all.

I Provoked a Pachypodium to get on its hate list and waited 30s for the hate from that to subside. I targeted a cock my friend was fighting, while facing the Pachypodium. I waited for a double Retaliation hit (a weak one, admittedly, but the numbers check out with considerable margin of error) and then instructed my friend to cure me with the weakest cure available (Curing Waltz). If Retaliation did in fact give enmity, it should keep facing me, because by that point I have stored up quite some enmity. If, however, it went for my friend, it would mean that Retaliation doesn't give enmity.

Retaliation damage: 299HP, resulting in 413CE and 1237VE, 1649 TE
Time elapsed: 10s, resulting in 60VE/s * 10s = 600VE loss
Damage taken: 62HP, resulting in 45CE loss
Remaining enmity: 367CE + 1049VE = 1416TE
HP cured: 94HP, resulting in 410TE

"Time elapsed" and "Damage taken" refer to the interval between the first retaliation hit and the moment the cure move was used, again with considerable margin of error. So if it would indeed give TP, the Pachypodium would still be facing me, but it didn't, it went after him instantly.

That's exactly what my observations have been. Retaliations do not give enmity or put you on the hate list. It's the same as counter.

Well then it would appear that I was wrong, it must have been something else that put me on the hate list.

Maybe moonlight?

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Originally Posted by Byrth

That's exactly what my observations have been. Retaliations do not give enmity or put you on the hate list. It's the same as counter.

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yes and no you take some enmity loss from the act of taking a hit but counter doesnt since no dmg is taken

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Originally Posted by Gokku

yes and no you take some enmity loss from the act of taking a hit but counter doesnt since no dmg is taken

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You can only lose Enmity if you have it and are on the hate list, which isn't true if you're only Retaliating something (like a monster you've agroed that is beating on you).