How Treasure Hunter works - SE clarification request

So I've been searching these forums only to be surprised that no one has managed to bring this up yet. So here goes:

Quote:

---

When more than one member has Treasure Hunter, the player with the strongest version will have theirs take effect for the party. The effect comes into play as soon as the Thief generates enmity from the target enemy. Even if the Thief dies, the effect remains.

---

This is a known SE response from several years ago in regards to how the job ability Treasure Hunter works. The problem with it is players have been reporting their Treasure Hunter being reset upon death ever since the last update came around that gave us Treasure Hunter III and Treasure Hunter effectiveness procs. A Thief procs to whatever number they do. They then die. They heal up. They then re engage the monster only to find out their TH effectiveness starts over from scratch. So my question is, which is it? Was the given answer mistranslated or are we experiencing a bug? And if this is in fact a bug, is it a bug in the sense that it's supposed to remain active, or is the data we're getting in the log bugged and behind the scenes it's working as intended, as in it does remain active after a Thief dies? Perhaps Treasure Hunter effect in general remains, but any proc effectiveness is erased upon death by design?


I thank you in advance for any response.

I've experienced no such bug.

For example, I got myself killed the last time I fought Briareus. Since only suckers use Atma of Dread, my base TH was 6, and before I died, I upgraded it to 7.

After I died, I got up and immediately engaged it again because I'm not a sissy. I upgraded TH again - to 8. I was the only THF, and the TH 'debuff' most certainly stayed on the mob after my glorious death.

SE is correct in stating that the TH 'debuff' stays on the mob if the THF dies. It stands to reason that the TH 'debuff' stays on said mob until it goes idle (for whatever reason).

I would just like precise information on the mechanics of treasure hunter myself. Like, is it a straight percentage boost, another roll at the potential drops, adjustment of drop odds, a combination or something else entirely? But, given how they've never officially released the details on the mechanics of anything else, I doubt I'll ever know for sure.

Treasure hunter (placebo hunter):
Increases the chances that you think an item will drop! Caps at TH10, and makes the low dmg thief feel worth something at the end of a kill.

i beleive the current accepted version of how TH works is: for each level of TH there's another chance to get each drop, IE: mob X has 30% chance to drop item Y, with TH3 you get 3 30% chances, thats not 90%, but 3 shots at the 30%

someone in my shell claims to have seen th 11 proc'd.

Not sure if there's a cap.

The current theorised cap is (Base + gear) x2. I have personally got to TH11, but not until I had TH6 base. Before that no matter how long the fight lasted I couldn't get beyond TH10

that sounds reasonable, but as usual I'd prefer for SE to confirm it.

I remember shortly after that update there were claims on AH.com as high as TH12, but no one ever said anything about going further.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vold

So my question is, which is it? Was the given answer mistranslated or are we experiencing a bug?

---

False dichotomy. Maybe it used to work that way and they changed it recently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eeek

I've experienced no such bug.

For example, I got myself killed the last time I fought Briareus. Since only suckers use Atma of Dread, my base TH was 6, and before I died, I upgraded it to 7.

After I died, I got up and immediately engaged it again because I'm not a sissy. I upgraded TH again - to 8. I was the only THF, and the TH 'debuff' most certainly stayed on the mob after my glorious death.

SE is correct in stating that the TH 'debuff' stays on the mob if the THF dies. It stands to reason that the TH 'debuff' stays on said mob until it goes idle (for whatever reason).

---

Perhaps it is bugged then at times, or thiefs are getting their stories wrong. I was mainly curious if things were changed up with the level cap raise to 90. Being a THF I could try to confirm this one way or another but I rarely die so I've never had the opportunity to see for myself. Regardless of those incoming tests just to see what is going on with my own two eyes, if the system is bugged I definitely want it to be known and looked into. Who knows what else could be bugging out if it is in fact a bug. Treasure hunter is serious business for me. I want it working properly.

In regards to knowing more about TH itself, I'm pretty content with knowing TH is better than no TH, and TH II is better than TH and so on. So it's like, eh, whatever. One too many Treasure Hunter speculation threads for me over the years so I had to retire from them. I just don't want it to be bugging out and left unchecked.

Would like to know if tping in your TH gear increases the chance of getting a TH proc. As terrified as I am of the answer being yes, it would be nice for some confirmation.

It definitely stays on after death. I'm a sacrificial THF myself and find myself eating dust constantly. Since I only have TH gear on at start, and occasionally get a proc, I have TH6 or TH7 on. I immediately equip TH3 gear (= no TH gear) and then sometimes die. I also immediately get up (powered by Apocalypse) and keep doing my meele/SA/TA thing, and I've never seen TH reset, in fact, I remember several times where I managed to increase it further.

The x-times roll for THx theory is most certainly wrong, and could be disproved by some very simple and short tests. Get TH6 on and kill some things with low drop rate for certain items. This is equivalent to saying you get the same results from fighting a mob x times. Imagine TH6 on Fafnir, it would be like fighting him 6 times and merge the loot pools. It even sounds very unlikely, just consider TH6 for the moment and what it does. 6-times reroll would turn 5% drop rate into 25% drop rate, 10% drop rate into 50% drop rate, 20% drop rate into 75% drop rate. So 1 in 20 drops would turn into 1 in 4 drops, 1 in 10 to 1 in 2, 1 in 5 to 3 in 4. Not to mention higher TH tiers, TH10 would turn a very rare 10% drop into an extremely common 66% drop (1 in 10 to 2 in 3). This could be tested very easily, if someone who actually believes this wants to try it. I'm pretty sure it's wrong so I'm not gonna bother personally.

As to where it caps.. a friend of mine managed to get TH11 on Bukhis, I'm not quite sure if he had TH6 yet back then. I'll have to go through the logs. Also, how is (Base + Gear) x2 calculated? Based on current gear? Then I believe we'll see an increase in THFs fulltiming TH. And that could be disproved easily, in fact, I have. I triggered TH7 lots of times without any TH gear (TH3 base) so that's not it. The gear you had on at start? If that's it, it would be hard to prove, but if it's not it, should be easy to disprove. Have someone engage with TH3 and keep meleeing, hope to get TH7. It should definitely be possible, I've seen TH6 proc lots on NMs I didn't care about the drops on, so had only TH3 equipped. I'm not sure if I saw TH7, but if it's possible it shouldn't be hard to reach.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raksha

False dichotomy. Maybe it used to work that way and they changed it recently.

---

You're nit picking on my wording, and I'm trying to make it as short and sweet and to the point as possible.

Quote:

---

Perhaps Treasure Hunter effect in general remains, but any proc effectiveness is erased upon death by design?

---

I bring this up because I am asking if it was just plain changed up recently with the addition of procs.

In case I need to be more clear:

So I've been searching these forums only to be surprised that no one has managed to bring this up yet. So here goes:

Quote:

---

When more than one member has Treasure Hunter, the player with the strongest version will have theirs take effect for the party. The effect comes into play as soon as the Thief generates enmity from the target enemy. Even if the Thief dies, the effect remains.

---

This is a known SE response from several years ago in regards to how the job ability Treasure Hunter works. The problem with it is players have been reporting their Treasure Hunter being reset upon death ever since the last update came around that gave us Treasure Hunter III and Treasure Hunter effectiveness procs. A Thief procs to whatever number they do. They then die. They heal up. They then re engage the monster only to find out their TH effectiveness starts over from scratch. So my question is, which is it? Was the given answer mistranslated and TH does not remain? Are we experiencing a bug? Were things changed to 'TH does not remain' recently, since that Q&A answer? Are things working as intended and players are misjudging what they are seeing? For curious minds, if this is in fact a bug, is it a bug in the sense that it's supposed to remain active and isn't, or is the data we're getting in the log bugged and behind the scenes it's working as intended, as in it does remain active after a Thief dies? Just curious whether or not I need to take special care in not eating dirt until such a bug is fixed!

I thank you in advance for any response.

Keep in mind here the message upgrading is no guarantee, they are seperate entities. The message could say th 100 and you could still have none, it's still possible TH is lost when the thief dies even if the message remains.

I noticed a reduction when I die on thief from what I normally get too but given randomness Square throws into everything it's hard to be sure.

About the going idle thing, I was soloing Minax Bugard on THF and it did that kill move (name escapes me), it even regenned a few ticks before I re-engaged, when I did my first TH proc was 9 (I got 8 before I died). I suspect the effect only wears off after idle and complete regen.

well it could probably be this way:
u get one roll and th effects the range of numbers for an item
example mob is davoi wasp:

beehive chip 0-200, 400-600
honey 275-425, 500-600
insect wing 550-650
giant stinger 600-750

now lets say that u have th4
this might turn it to:
beehive chip 0-250,400-650
honey 275-475,500-650
insect wing 550-700
giant stinger 600-750

the numbers aren't true for sure. but this could be a way it does work.
it allows no drop to multiple drops.

anyone else experienced that if u proc th7 at begin of the fight and remove 1 th equipment piece that 7 will proc again?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darka

About the going idle thing, I was soloing Minax Bugard on THF and it did that kill move (name escapes me), it even regenned a few ticks before I re-engaged, when I did my first TH proc was 9 (I got 8 before I died). I suspect the effect only wears off after idle and complete regen.

---

I have experienced different behaviour on several accounts. From my experience, as soon as the mob deaggros, all effects on it are gone, including weakness staggers and Treasure Hunter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Runespider

Keep in mind here the message upgrading is no guarantee, they are seperate entities. The message could say th 100 and you could still have none, it's still possible TH is lost when the thief dies even if the message remains.

---

Have any proof for that? I find it very hard to believe. Especially after they confirmed that TH will stay on the mob.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alukat

anyone else experienced that if u proc th7 at begin of the fight and remove 1 th equipment piece that 7 will proc again?

---

Not me, it always upgraded to 8.

I'm no THF, but I just think of it as a DNC. Steps hang around 30 or so seconds, and are set to 30 seconds again each time they are triggered. TH could be similar. That would make people dying and staying back lose TH, while people who die and engage again within 30 seconds (or other magical time number) will see it stay.

I could also imagine stuff like Booty Shot confuse the system to lose TH numbers. Also maybe that is how some report TH12?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malamasala

I'm no THF, but I just think of it as a DNC. Steps hang around 30 or so seconds, and are set to 30 seconds again each time they are triggered. TH could be similar. That would make people dying and staying back lose TH, while people who die and engage again within 30 seconds (or other magical time number) will see it stay.

I could also imagine stuff like Booty Shot confuse the system to lose TH numbers. Also maybe that is how some report TH12?

---

I'm sorry, but it's not the same at all. TH does not wear off after a set time like DNC Steps do. Once TH is applied, it will stay on the mob until it either dies or deaggros and goes completely idle (at which point all triggers are reset as well).

nothing seem to reset TH proc,
(random fail worth) : ZR run proc some TH(7), got full charmed, dia off deagro and madame regened 1 tic, 1st TH proc was 8 (then we forced few full charm/regen to proc higher TH)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hiko

nothing seem to reset TH proc,
(random fail worth) : ZR run proc some TH(7), got full charmed, dia off deagro and madame regened 1 tic, 1st TH proc was 8 (then we forced few full charm/regen to proc higher TH)

---

Neat. I've never personally seen something like what you describe.

I don't remember where or when, but I think I recall someone running a few tests on Gilfinder and learning that the Gilfinder effect does not wear off once applied, even if the mob in question completely deaggros. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that TH works the same way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eeek

I've experienced no such bug.

For example, I got myself killed the last time I fought Briareus. Since only suckers use Atma of Dread, my base TH was 6, and before I died, I upgraded it to 7.

After I died, I got up and immediately engaged it again because I'm not a sissy. I upgraded TH again - to 8. I was the only THF, and the TH 'debuff' most certainly stayed on the mob after my glorious death.

SE is correct in stating that the TH 'debuff' stays on the mob if the THF dies. It stands to reason that the TH 'debuff' stays on said mob until it goes idle (for whatever reason).

---

I've told people this crap time and time and time again and yet they still think that if I either died, zoned or changed jobs the TH effect leaves.

Only times I've actually noticed TH have any effects:
- Back when I used to farm Battering Rams I noticed that before I levelled THF I'd average 1-3 drops per kill. When I went back again after having levelled THF I noticed I was averaging around 3-6 drops per kill.
- During Dynamis, when the THF d/c'ed the rate of coins dropped seemingly went from about 70% down to about 15%.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alukat

well it could probably be this way:
u get one roll and th effects the range of numbers for an item
example mob is davoi wasp:

beehive chip 0-200, 400-600
honey 275-425, 500-600
insect wing 550-650
giant stinger 600-750

now lets say that u have th4
this might turn it to:
beehive chip 0-250,400-650
honey 275-475,500-650
insect wing 550-700
giant stinger 600-750

the numbers aren't true for sure. but this could be a way it does work.
it allows no drop to multiple drops.

anyone else experienced that if u proc th7 at begin of the fight and remove 1 th equipment piece that 7 will proc again?

---

This thread isn't about the method by which TH affects drop rates, which is something we can only speculate on and as long as treasure hunter helps you find treasure in some way, the end result of the behind the scenes calculation is the same. What this thread is really about is whether or not the effect given by TH remains when the THF is KO'd or if the base effect remains but not the boosted effect, or what have you.

That said, I find it extremely doubtful that the game uses internal /random commands to decide if you get drops or not. It's far more likely to be percent based, rather than the same 0-999 random scale we use for lots.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alhanelem

That said, I find it extremely doubtful that the game uses internal /random commands to decide if you get drops or not. It's far more likely to be percent based, rather than the same 0-999 random scale we use for lots.

---

Those systems give equivalent results. 0-300 for drop, 301-999 for no drop would equal a 30% drop chance. In fact, this is how most systems calculate chance-based rolls. They calculate a random integer, and if the integer is between 0 and c*x, where c is the maximal integer value (65536 in most cases) and x the percentage, then the result is considered a success.