The number one complaint about FFXI from former players is that they wish it was still like 75 cap - to the point of making illegal private servers, even, which is terrible.
A lot of players - especially long-time players - have heaps of lvl 75 gear from over the years packed away somewhere, lots on additional characters now, thanks to the ability to send more and more things by delivery box. However, there's not really any productive way to use any of it.
EverQuest (the inspiration for FFXI) added a type of instanced content at the level 80 or 85 level cap wherein you select a lvl 51 vanilla class, (iirc, only one of each class per group, like Sheol-Gaol) and do a classic dungeon crawl to the OG dragons. The rewards were current; many best in slot.
The opportunities are endless: 75 cap ballista, 75 cap versions of content from Abyssea to the present (instances which drop newer, more relevant gear), new 75 cap seal/crest battlefields, like the EQ style ones, to clear the path to, and defeat, Fafnir within the time limit. The KI from winning would let you get the Nidhogg version; and so on with all the classic HNMs... Just to think of a few.
Besides bringing in players both new and old alike, the super extra bonus feature is that these battles will be too difficult to pull off in scaled-down gear; you're going to need a good party in good 75 cap gear; this means "OLD CONTENT" that so many people entirely disregard, and sits neglected, will now be RELEVANT AGAIN! Not just relevant, but critical. This will have the extra EXTRA added benefit of spreading the population out across the servers; instead of everyone being in Ra'Kaznar, Rabao, Mhaura, Jeuno, and Adoulin, there will be people running all the old content for the best 75 gear. It would also be a good idea to spread out the spawn points or NPCs for these instances amongst many zones, for this reason. It'll not only give so much great, but sadly overlooked content some much-needed attention, exposing the new generation of players to such great content, and allowing some of us old-timers to go back and fill in what we missed, or wax nostalgic.
You could even make a 75 cap "progression" server; launch it as pre-Zilart, but with the modern QOL features, and "release" each expansion/add-on in the order they came out, but in a compressed and evenly-spaced timeframe.
There is a huge untapped market of "oh, but 75.." people that it seems imperative to tap - the influx of revenue could even potentially bolster a second resurgence, nay, a Renaissance, bringing another expansion and/or higher battle content for the bleeding-edge players. Maybe.
In any case, I'm not seeing a downside.
75 cap content with 119 rewards ?!
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12-09-2024, 06:43 AMKaraKrieg75 cap content with 119 rewards ?!
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12-09-2024, 10:56 AMAlhanelem
The complaint from *some* former players.
I've been playing since the beginning. I felt like the level cap increase was long needed and should have happened a lot sooner- if it hadn't been 75 for so long players wouldn't have been so used to it. The cap increase itself has very little to do with the game's decline and it was much more of a content-releated issue in the days after Abyssea was complete.I've mused about this much in the past and I"m not going to go on about it. There are plenty of people like me out there too who think that FFXI's real problem was struggling to keep up with the times. Part of it was PS2 limitations, part of it was a dev team that didn't want to take risks (evident in how much FFXIV 1.0 initially stayed closer to FFXI than other MMOs coming out around that time).
There are also plenty of people who left long before the level cap change, who wouldn't share the opinion either.
As far as the content idea though... The only problem I see here is just that FFXI doesn't really do dungeons the way other games do. Dungeons are really just field areas with more structure, mechanics and features, and no mounting. I'm not against the idea of content that can serve to bridge current players with former ones, so I support the spirit of the idea, just not the execution. No special servers. These problems can be solved within the confines of the current game in my opinion. FFXI was and is not big enough to support this kind of a split in the community by having special servers with different rules.
The devs themselves have previously spoken on the idea of a "classic" server or similar idea, and they said it wasn't an option because they did not retain data from old versions of the game. That being said, the "progression" concept could be self-imposed if the expansion installers were once again available seperately and you could install each one as you desired (The game does not require you to install all the expansions, nor do you even have to install them in a particular order, which is very different from other games. None of FFXI's expansions are dependent on each other, aside from the NA release of the game being inseperably bundled with Rise of the Zilart)
FFXI already uses the records of emenince system to bridge the gap between the old progression and the new, the only problem is its basically just a reward system for doing other things rather than content in and of itself. But really, short of a monumental effort like a total remaster/relaunch nothing is going to return the game to its heyday, not even a "classic" or "progression" server. -
12-09-2024, 11:31 PMKaraKriegQuote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
I'm not really keen to copy the classic server either, it was just an idea; it also wouldn't *stay* 75 cap, it would progress as though the game was just released, but with today's QOL, because who really wants to walk to Jeuno and deal with airships or take months to grind to 75? also I was using the EQ dungeon crawls as an example; for us it would undoubtedly be BCNMs. Dynamis is nothing but an instanced dungeon - especially like Beaucedine Glacier. A good old fashioned dungeon crawl isn't exactly FFXI meat and potatoes, but it's not unprecedented. You wouldn't use a barely geared vanilla toon, either; the central point is to give OG players the chance to dust off their lvl 75 gear and give new/returning players a reason to go play the old content for that gear, in order to beat the new 75 cap content for new iLvL 119 BiS rewards. Even still, anyone I've talked to that left after Abyssea, left because of Abyssea. Whether it's dissatisfaction with the new content or the idea of the level cap increase itself, or Q.Q over how much work they put into so much gear that became essentially immediately obsolete; not to mention the period between SoA launch and the REM reforge process; those were some salty people. I'm not saying that everyone who quit wants lvl 75 content, but a great many of them do, and current players, too. A new server is a bad idea; as to servers, I think ultimately they need to merge them all into 3; NA, EU, and JP, and give everyone free world transfers every 3 days for 30 days to give people a chance to reshuffle. There's just no sense in a dozen ghost town servers. It's pretty much just Asura, Odin, and Bahamut with meaningful populations. The resulting increase in population density would benefit everyone, and eliminating those servers will free up valuable resources.
I'm not trying to "return FFXI to its heyday"; I know FFXI won't be SE's #1 earner like in 2012 again, not with PS2 graphics :( today's kids are spoiled; go play an atari! ): What I AM trying to do is bring to the devs' attention an elegant solution to a well-known problem inspired by the same game that inspired the creation of FFXI.
The new battlefields should have increasing drop rates and/or slots with increasing difficulties like the current ones - and probably should add a 75 capped version of existing ones. These will have very powerful ilvl rewards, so maybe the KIs should be purchased with banked job points from a master job (all those Job points sitting around doing nothing, why not? and more reason to grind jp is more active playtime, which is good for everyone.
I appreciate your reply and welcome your (and anyone's) ideas. Remember, the central theme is new content with new BiS-ish rewards that are 75 capped and very difficult, necessitating engagement in the mountain of old content for the gear. That's the main point, is that there's all that quite lovely content that's getting no love, because it's "obsolete" - that doesn't make it less fun, though.
Further, old "failed" content like Brenner and such could be repurposed, idk. Let me know what you think. I'd like the game to become more inclusive to everyone. Under this system, one could much more easily do a self-imposed progression kind of deal, except with nonlinear freedom. It was definitely cooler playing it with the missions as it came out; I remember when Dynamis first launched, I was like wuttttt?! That obvs won't be the case with these 75 cap treats - none of the rewards should be suddenly *required*, but should make even prime holders go "ok that's nice, I want". I try to keep ideas within reason; people have been crying for a graphics overhaul/remaster for years and it's just not going to happen; they would literally have to write the whole game over again line by line in a new system.
Gil for your thoughts? -
12-10-2024, 08:41 AMRichLester
New servers will never happen now. Too much effort for SE. They already said they've lost the resource for FFXI but looking at the players survey, they may come back to do some tweaks. Regarding lvl 75 dropping lvl 119 stuff, I think SE should look at all these upgrading gear drop rates in general, eg. what they can do during the Abyssea campaign is converting all the mandies near Chloris pop in Abyssea Tahrongi into all Chloris, saving a load of time getting 50 chloris buds to upgrade empyrean weapons. Adding REM Tales 6-10 to macrocosmic orb battles during campaign. Stuff like that.
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12-10-2024, 10:17 AMAlhanelemNeither was WoW Classic in the end, as they would end up periodically reintroducing the expansions. So it really ended up being as if WoW had just launched, except for having some of the QOL that came later.Quote:
I'm not really keen to copy the classic server either, it was just an idea; it also wouldn't *stay* 75 cap,
Regardless, like I said, the developers already dismissed a special game server years ago because they didn't have copies of old versions of the game to be able to do it without essentially redeveloping the game from scratch (which, wouldn't be a bad idea but terribly expensive and likely taking years)
Anyone who really wants to play 75 cap again can already do so by simply not completing the level 80 limit break and using Level Sync to group with anyone who wants to join them, or having them do the same thing.
I'm not strictly opposed to the idea of gap-bridging content to make it easier for old returnees to get back into the game, but do we really need that? It doesn't really take very long anymore to reach 99 and RoE provides gear to get you started into item level territory. -
12-10-2024, 03:21 PMKaraKriegThat's what I mean; not new servers, consolidating the existing ones into fewer existing ones - like the opposite of new servers. Subtracting servers to storage or whatever. People have been saying this game was dead since 200X, and yet here we are.Quote:
Originally Posted by RichLester
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12-10-2024, 04:18 PMAlhanelemWe don't really want a server merge. Many of us who are on smaller servers are there because we like the relative lack of RMT influence. And we're in linkshells and still get stuff done.Quote:
That's what I mean; not new servers, consolidating the existing ones into fewer existing ones
Most of the people looking for a crowd are already on Asura or Bahamut, nobody really need's SE to force them onto another server, people are where they want to be already. -
12-10-2024, 11:22 PMKaraKrieg
I'm still thinking about all those people who quit because abyssea made everything they'd worked years for obsolete, and others who didn't quit but were salty about it nonetheless, and I'm dead certain it would be well received. Leave thinking up specific scenarios & content to the professionals; This is just an idea to bolster engagement, and it has such a broad potential scope, they've got scores of options.
MAKE 75 GREAT AGAIN -
12-11-2024, 08:21 AMAlhanelemSE still regularly offers discounts on server transfers, it isn't hard to move to a different one if you actually want to do that.Quote:
I'm still thinking about all those people who quit because abyssea made everything they'd worked years for obsolete,
And as far as content, there is so much to do if you're 75 and so much gear that is readily obtainable for higher levels that I really don't see how more help is needed to ease returnees back into things. That said, I do want more content as does everyone around here- but we don't need server merges and we don't need special servers. -
12-11-2024, 09:43 AMRichLester
Yeah, they won't do any server mergers & I'm the same. Found a good linkshell to play the game casually. If you like the lvl75 grinding again, you may have a good few jobs to get up to lvl 99 then gear up. I just think I want lvl 75 gear/weapons that need items that takes ages to get to be made easier so us oldies can just skip up them up to lvl 99, ready for the lvl119 augments. Maybe curio moogle items we can just buy the upgrade items for empyrean weapons with gil, once we have completed Rhapsodies, for example. No harm in speeding things up a bit.
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12-11-2024, 10:35 AMKaraKriegSee, again, you're basically saying "i don't care about 75 gear unless it can be reforged to 119" - The entire point of the OP suggestion is to *give people a reason to* It isn't direct path from lvl75 item to lvl 119 item; It's respectably gear jobs for 75 cap content > defeat content (repeat) > variety of droolworthy 119 items. It seems to me the best way for SE to profit from the undeniable 75 era nostalgia that is widespread amongst current and former players alike.Quote:
Originally Posted by RichLester
I also just want to rain death in 75 cap ballista with a 75 sam/nin ridill kclub yoichi / spirits within, namas arrow, utsusemi: ni; The sky set (except for feet or hands or something) all have like +50 hp and can get some sick synergy augments like haste and dual wield - dual wield for that kclub sounds nice.
I mean these are brainstorm/spitball ideas on a theme with specific parameters: Make lvl 75 endgame gear necessary again in order to get new 119 endgame gear that people are going to at the least, really want, and more likely will have some people saying it's required. Put a ring that grants COR a third roll, that'll have them queueing up for a while. -
12-11-2024, 12:32 PMAlhanelem
I just don't see SE as likely to do anything like that. In most cases, rewards are aligned with the level of the content. there are minor exceptions like cryptic quests that don't require a particular level but have a good reward, but for the moset part, if you do 75 content you're going to get 75 items, if you do lv30 content you're going to get lv30 items, etc. etc.
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12-13-2024, 09:06 AMKaraKriegQuote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
that's a trend, not a rule, and the entire premise of the OP is hey lets try something outside the box
saying hey that's outside the box they won't do it is not constructive
Once again, from the top:
1. There is a substantial untapped nostalgia market vis a vis 75 cap
2. There are many, many players with hoards of 75 gear gathering dust
3. 75 cap content still exists and still has to be maintained even though nobody is playing it
Objective: Make lvl75 cap content/gear relevant again, for up to and including endgame players
It just seems to me that the only way to incentivize endgame players are endgame level rewards. Just because something is unprecedented, doesn't mean they won't do it. Who would have believed trust would happen? Guess what, EQ did it first (granted they're only tanks or healers). Everything is unprecedented until it isn't. The OMM system is a clever and unique battle content that was very popular and fun, and something like it could be easily adapted and would be well received.
I'm not interested in the likelihood that they'll do it - they're literally polling the community for suggestions for new content, so don't presume to say what they will or won't do. You've made your naysay opinion clear, you don't need to keep beating the dead chocobo.
If you have any better ideas for new content that makes the sea of unused gear and content relevant again, I'm all ears. -
12-14-2024, 05:32 AMAlhanelemHence why I didn't use the word "rule", obviouslyQuote:
that's a trend, not a rule,
I think you overestimate this "market." As far as MMOs go FFXI was hardly the biggest in its heyday and today it's over 20 years old and most people who are not playing now have moved on. The people who would vocally come back to do 75 content are overrepresented by forum threads. Forum goers are a very small percentage of the actual community and typically forum goers are biased towards the most dedicated portion of the playerbase.Quote:
1. There is a substantial untapped nostalgia market vis a vis 75 cap
SE is not going to make enough money off this "market" to justify the investment required to attract them.
so what? Where's the law that says every item in every MMO must remain useful for its entire existence? While some people do treat these games as a collectathon, there's no rule that says just because you've collected an item that it has to be useful. That aside from the fact that many items remain useful for their looks even after their stats are no longer relevant.Quote:
2. There are many, many players with hoards of 75 gear gathering dust
I will never understand this argument. Why is it so important that those leaping boots I got 19 years ago remain useful today? There's literal hundreds of other items out there that can come and go from the spotlight.
There's nothing to maintain, it all exists and it is all stil functional. Unless some bug is introduced to break it, it doesn't need attention.Quote:
3. 75 cap content still exists and still has to be maintained even though nobody is playing it
Again, I don't have better ideas because I don't see the need to make the "sea of unusued gear and content relevant again." The only exception might be a content that upgrades existing items, as has been done with many popular gear sets and such. Many old NMs got new life with higher level versions through Wanted battles. Frankly, I think most of the stuff that we cared about 75 and prior has already had this gap bridged via content that upgrades existing items or offers an improved version of an existing item.Quote:
If you have any better ideas for new content that makes the sea of unused gear and content relevant again, I'm all ears.
It is not necessary to keep all content relevant at all times. It all was designed to serve specific purposes. It is completely okay if few people have need of the purpose it was made for. It's still there for anyone that happens to need it. Frankly I'm more interested in content or features that were never truly finished or in some cases even released. Like Monstrosity (unfinished). Like the Pit in Aht Urghan (Never released). New UI (Never finished or released, only a very early version shown on the test server). Also reminder that even 15+ years ago there was content and items that had little relevance, or were only relevant to very specific needs/situations.
I don't see how making XYZ old item relevant again or XYZ old content relevant again brings back any significant number of players. Even if you're yearning for nostalgia, you don't just want to do old content you already beat before, you want to do new things. And there's plenty of new things to do. Just keep playing and you gain access to more content and items.
If an old player returns to the game, their old gear will work fine. As they level up, they'll get new gear thanks to relatively easy content systems that will transition them to how things work at the level cap. I think the current content available to do this is adequate. -
12-14-2024, 06:01 AMZenionWell, okay. There kind of is a point here. Gear for levels 1 through 98 is massively depreciated because the grind up to level 99 basically doesn't exist; most players are going to end up getting fast-tracked up to 99 because that's where all the actual content is. That's not, in itself, a bad thing, but it leaves most of the game's economy orphaned. Crafting basically only matters if you cap it and go for a shield, because you're going to be selling ilvl119 cursed gear, Su2 gear, JSE necks, and Su4/5 weapons, and little else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
Slowing down the initial level grind isn't an answer. That just keeps players from participating in the relevant parts of the game for longer. New 75 cap content is part of an answer, but it still leaves any of the 76 - 99 stuff (and most gear below level 50) hanging in the breeze.
So...
I already pitched an idea for a level cap exp grind content before, but let's push it a bit further. There doesn't seem to be an issue with adding new zones to the game, only with making new terrain for them, so let's create duplicates of a few zones, give them a color filter, and slap level caps on them. Sarutabaruta, Ronfaure, and Gustaberg to level 15; Tahrongi, Konschtat, and La Theine to 25; that sort of thing. You enter, and gear over the cap is removed. You get a personal level cap that starts at 1 and is raised through fighting monsters in these areas, on a per-job basis. Experience is slow - 400 for an Incredibly Tough mob, divided six ways. Essentially we're replicating the classic experience party... experience... in zones where there won't be any high-level visitors to save you.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraKrieg
Give out some kind of currency that's awarded on a 1:1 basis with experience points inside that content, which is used similarly to Hallmarks: maybe a few unique prizes, but mostly just things that could be obtained in other ways, but might be less tedious to obtain through this content. Maybe allow the points to be exchanged for moogle segments and gallimaufry at a 10:1 ratio up to a monthly cap or something too, since people keep talking about how hard those can be to get.
Basically, you create something that feels like "classic" FFXI, with the whole experience parties forever and gear that might boost one relevant stat by a point if you're lucky thing. You renew the need for gear at all levels (though ultimately people will settle into whatever level range feels comfortable, and maybe there will be a need to balance that with higher or lower reward ratios at different level ranges.) Since these will be whole zones with mostly the original monster distribution, there's no need to make them layered zones, so you create a sense of community again by creating opportunities for groups to run into each other out in the field.
While it's not impossible to bot out the experience grind, it should at least be made a little more difficult by not being able to tank worthwhile monsters indefinitely, and having to run a bit afield to pull one back to camp to fight safely. So that might even encourage people to actually get out and play some more, instead of just making this more content for machines. -
12-14-2024, 07:58 AMKaraKrieg
My idea was just for some hard instanced battlefields or smt that are 75 cap but give 119 rewards (that would be sought after) so that you could have a little bit of digestible, bite-sized 75cap fun without getting anyone's panties in a knot, but so much for that...
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12-14-2024, 08:09 AMAlhanelemThis isn't really a problem. Before everyone was 75, you sold whate the leveling population needed. When everyone was 75, most of the stuff ppl sold was 75 stuff, and without as many new players entering the ring, the need for lower stuff diminished. Now the 75 stuff is the "lower stuff" and new stuff has taken its place. It seems like people expect the stuff they worked for years ago to always have value where that isn't true even in the most hardcore of MMOs.Quote:
but it leaves most of the game's economy orphaned. Crafting basically only matters if you cap it and go for a shield, because you're going to be selling ilvl119 cursed gear, Su2 gear, JSE necks, and Su4/5 weapons, and little else.
Now, it COULD have been a problem if there was no items available for the occasional new/returning player, but most of the core stuff that such a player might need crafted were made available on the sparks vendor, filling the gap. Existing players don't need to spend time gathering and crafting these items and can focus on the ones that matter precisely because of this. -
01-05-2025, 11:41 PMValtronicI think you may be underestimating the potential market for a classic server. Retail WoW players also used to claim that a Classic WoW server would not be profitable and that Nostalrius and Turtle players would not purchase a subscription, and they only played because private servers are free. Classic WoW's success ultimately proved them all to be wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
There are currently 27 custom servers (down from 30, as three recently shut down for various reasons), with 19 of those based on the 75-era. While most of these servers have modest populations—ranging from 5 to 100 concurrent players logged in at any given time—some are surprisingly popular. The largest server consistently has between 1.5k and 3k concurrent players, depending on the time of day. This is on par with Asura, FFXI's most populated retail server. In fact, it could be considered more active than Asura, as there’s no dual-boxing allowed, and the server enforces strict measures on household IPs, personal IPs, and hardware to prevent multi-accounting.
The second-largest server I know of sees between 500 and 1.5k concurrent players daily, the third-largest sees between 250 and 1.2k daily, and a brand-new server that launched just a few months ago has already gained traction, with 350+ concurrent players and over 1k signups. The Reddit page dedicated to private FFXI servers has 5.7k members, and the largest private server boasts over 33,000 members. The second-largest has 10,871 members, the third has 7,091, and the fourth has 6,280. Several others have 1k to 2k members each.
These numbers are significant, and most of this growth has been driven purely by word of mouth and forum communities. This clearly demonstrates there is genuine interest, and these player bases have been built organically without any official marketing. Now, imagine what an official 75-era server could achieve with actual marketing and support—it could be huge. Would it rival WoW or FFXIV? Definitely not. But it would easily surpass the current retail FFXI population by a wide margin. The interest is undeniable.
Edit: It also wouldn’t be nearly as difficult or as expensive as some people claim. Modders have successfully reverse-engineered the PS2 tools and created methods to bypass POL. Additionally, they’ve developed tools for creating custom maps, items, and textures. It’s even possible to extract the full maps of FFXI—along with all textures, mob spawns, and other assets—using programs like Noesis or Xidata. These assets can then be imported into modern game engines like Unity or Unreal with ease. If the community can create tools that achieve these things, surely Square Enix could do the same without spending millions... -
01-07-2025, 01:15 PMCatmato
Those private servers also have the benefit of being free. Getting those players to stop pirating and start paying $12.95/mo just would not happen.
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01-08-2025, 08:17 AMFinal_Farcity
I dig it
75 cap is less convoluted. It is simpler times.
It is evident the 99 cap is a headache, because the team has to go back and update older content to make it align with the 119 cap lol......75 cap was perfect.
New players appear fine with the leveling process, but are overall lost post 99. And I can't help them because this 20 year vet is lost too.......endgame modern XI is just not appealing to me personally.
Everything they are doing now, could have been done @the 75 cap. Granted, I do like to ability to solo steamroll older content. Thus, with the general populace drop, perhaps the 119 ilvl cap was necessary....... -
01-10-2025, 03:45 PMAlhanelemConsidering the entirety of the 75 cap era, it most definitely was NOT simpler times. If anything it was more complicated and we had to carry around just as much gear then as we do now, and back then it was a lot harder to tell what was good and worth keeping. In the period of time before we arrived at ilv119 as our "final destination," THAT was the simpler time as with item level gear, there were more clear winners for best in slot gear and fewer "sidegrades." Now that it's been 119 for quite a while, we keep more gear again just as we did back in the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final_Farcity