Why do you think SE does not want to support XI?

Beyond maintenance I mean...

I play alot of F2P mmo that does not have the populace of XI, but still receive support in the form of expansions, etc. Just curious what the XI playerbase thinks beyond "Budget."

Why you ask? Eh, because unlike XIV, their whole project of XI is/was mysterious so this game ended fairly amicably. The developers wanted to move on to the next gen project.

However, there are many things I'd like to know why. I picked this one that happens to be one of the oldest areas. So why is this...?

https://i.imgur.com/UklZSy8.png

...SE has never explained why. This game is simply a PS2 game and SE wanted to let go of it unless they smell extra $$$ to their retirement accounts. Perhaps that's why this game is sinking slower than Titanic and no player knows it's coming.

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Originally Posted by Zehira

However, there are many things I'd like to know why. I picked this one that happens to be one of the oldest areas. So why is this...?

https://i.imgur.com/UklZSy8.png

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What am I looking at?

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Originally Posted by Super-Summoner

Beyond maintenance I mean...

I play alot of F2P mmo that does not have the populace of XI, but still receive support in the form of expansions, etc. Just curious what the XI playerbase thinks beyond "Budget."

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I think that the game has been overrun with bots. Which is also the reason why a lot of people are cancelling their subs.

Crafting, ML levels, everything and anything.... It is clear the place is littered with them, and ultimately it is a depressing end for a game that deserved more.

I play Final Fantasy XI, and I enjoy playing Final Fantasy XI.

I am not concerned with how many other people are playing or not playing, or how they are playing.

If Square-Enix is making money enough to keep it alive, I am happy.

I find it quite relaxing to go farm job points or master levels for about 1 hour per day, and it's enjoyable.

As for the original question, SE has suppored FFXI. FFXI has 5 expansions, and 4 addons, 2 of which were completely free for the player base.

Comparatively FFXIV only currently has 5 expansions, if you include A Realm Reborn, with a 6th on the way, all require payment. (Unless of course you waited after buying 2.0, and now getting 4.0 for free.)

So thats
FFXI: 5 expansions in 14 years.
FFXIV: 4-5 expansions in 13 years.

Seems the same to me.

We literally just got a brand new master trial this month.


(Now my opinion incoming.)
Quality over quantity in my opinion. FFXI is a playable game. The producer does not tell us to stop playing XI and play other games like the XIV developer does. FFXI is more engaging, and satisfying.

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Originally Posted by Sirmarki

What am I looking at?

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It's a small inaccessible dead-end area, you can't go there.

The question "why does SE no longer want to support this?". Well, they mentioned in the director's big message a while back that the developers all now need to move on to "greener pastures" so the game is pretty much in "dwindling down" mode. Of course, this game has a good community & is quite playable, which is why I was casual with this in the beginning so I have a lot of ye olde quests outstanding in case i'm bored. The game has kinda reached the end of it's life cycle but like old PCs & consoles, we still have those around, lol. They say they'll be around so long as we're around but how long that lasts for is anyone's guess.

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Originally Posted by RichLester

The question "why does SE no longer want to support this?". Well, they mentioned in the director's big message a while back that the developers all now need to move on to "greener pastures" so the game is pretty much in "dwindling down" mode. Of course, this game has a good community & is quite playable, which is why I was casual with this in the beginning so I have a lot of ye olde quests outstanding in case i'm bored. The game has kinda reached the end of it's life cycle but like old PCs & consoles, we still have those around, lol. They say they'll be around so long as we're around but how long that lasts for is anyone's guess.

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I wish Square-Enix would consider open-sourcing this game. The community will keep it alive for an extremely long time.

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Originally Posted by Zehira

It's a small inaccessible dead-end area, you can't go there.

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Oh. Got you. Thanks for clarifying.

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Originally Posted by Gwydion

I wish Square-Enix would consider open-sourcing this game. The community will keep it alive for an extremely long time.

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Copyright mine field is probably why.

I have different thoughts on why SE doesn't want to FFXI.

This game is over twenty years old and was originally made for the PS2. I still remember the excitement of getting that big white box to start my journey into FFXI. FFXI doesn't have the visual excitement with "in your face" graphics that other games have, which is what younger people are attracted to. Another storyline has concluded. What more can be said about FFXI lore to have another storyline for the players to go through? Maybe SE feels that there isn't money to be made on FFXI?

My other thoughts are because this is a twenty-year-old game there is an established player base who continue to pay monthly fees. This is a steady income source for SE, so why "kill the Golden Goose"? My LS has returning players who reactivated their accounts and are catching up to play endgame content. I had to take a break from FFXI because of real-life obligations and returned to find that FFXI was better than when I left. My guess is that returning players also approve of these improvements.

I have enjoyed playing this game for almost twenty years. It has been a constant source of enjoyment and despite the hundreds of hours of gameplay that have been logged I still have content to complete. It's relaxing to log on and chat with your LS-mates and spend a few hours doing some endgame content. I have tried other MMOs but keep returning to FFXI. How bad could this twenty-year-old game be if with FFXIV and other MMOs available players are returning to FFXI?

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Originally Posted by Sindaregion

I have different thoughts on why SE doesn't want to FFXI.

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Anything can be remade, we have seen it multiple times before.

However, there is one determining factor that is, well, the ultimate factor...

Cost.

20 years of content is a lot to remake, at a lot of expense.

I think all of SE's developers are working on FF7-rebirth, which appears to lots of extras from the original FF7 still intact. (Chocobo breeding, Gold Saucer mini-games, even some Weapons) ....SE has made a lot of mistakes in the past 2 years and sadly main-line Final Fantasy games haven't been the most self-sustaining strategy. I think this is why they made FF7 remake, they're out of ideas, and needed a new cash cow, to help with a course-correction.

I hope SE improves soon, because their pace of development has appeared to be slow or with quality that is of speculative value.

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Originally Posted by Sindaregion

Another storyline has concluded. What more can be said about FFXI lore to have another storyline for the players to go through?

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The Voracious Resurgence spoilers ahead:

The epilogue was riddled with sequel treats, me thinks.

Not that I believe they will get the funding to make it true, but I'm sure they have ideas, including, but not limited to some of the unexplored areas talked about in the lore already for ages past...

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It has been a constant source of enjoyment and despite the hundreds of hours of gameplay that have been logged I still have content to complete.

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Same. Almost 1378 days here, and I haven't been doing the AFK bazaaring thing either.

That being said, I usually don't really do things if I'm not playing with a friend, aside from some unfinished business, which somehow I still have a lot laying around.

As long as the charts tell the management that game is OK to keep alive, the developers will do what they can to make it so, or so I might bet.

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Originally Posted by Super-Summoner

Just curious what the XI playerbase thinks beyond "Budget."

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I think it's just money. Would a new expansion recoup costs by drawing in enough new subscribers? Or would they spend a bunch making an expansion just to keep roughly the same amount of people playing and paying?

"Ignorance of your culture is not considered cool."

I heard that quote at University in 1993 nineteen-ninety-three, and I'm using that quote today, towards SE.

While it is true that, as many ppl on this OF have pointed out, that the Final Fantasy FF series is, by definition, a series, and so nobody should cry or complain when SE moves on to the next number in the series, there is one major factor in FFXI that will never be replicated or repeated, even if SE produces another million FF titles in the series.

FFXI was the first game to bring together Squaresoft fans from around the world. We had all played FF 1 to FF 10, alone in our rooms around the world. Suddenly, FF11 arrived, and for the first time, all of the FF fans around the world were meeting together in a FF game.

FFXI was a celebration, a homecoming, the first contact.

This will never be replicated, or repeated, even if SE makes ten trillion more FF titles in the series. It was a "once in history moment."

Then you must consider that for 20+ years, this celebration has continued day-and-night. The cultural homecoming of FFXI was cemented by 20+ years of daily and nightly play, by Squaresoft fans in every corner of this planet.

That atmosphere, will never be repeated, because it was the first time all the FF kids around the world were able to meet in-game and party up.

Add to that, the fact that IMHO this game FFXI is the greatest actual computer-game in human history, in terms of playability, game mechanics, RPG atmosphere, customisability, augmentability, etc. I played my first computer-game in 1981, 42 years ago, and I have never played a computer-game that just played as smoothly and intuitively as FFXI plays. It is just a great great game, even if you ignore the monumental cultural factor of being the first time FF fans could play together.

I believe those two factors, the brilliance of FFXI as a playable game, and the sense of celebration, homecoming, and friendship, that exploded when all the FF fans got together after playing 1-10 FF titles alone, it is an atmosphere that permeates the world of Vana'diel. No other computer-game feels <This way.>

Recently, Devs said they got another 10 year server hardware upgrade, so it seems XI will be around for 10 years. The problem of XI being shackled to PS2 architecture, is an understandable issue, but also remember that "Lord Of The Rings" was shackled to paper-and-ink-print architecture, and yet because screenwriters and directors invested time and money into reading those long books and converting it to Film, a new generation of LOTR fans were born, and they went back and bought the original books after seeing the movies.

LOTR had a huge cultural following in the 20th Century, when it was restricted to paper-ink media only, but now it is in movies and computer games etc. It just comes down to the IP owners recognising the cultural value of their IP, and investing in keeping it alive for future generations.

:cool:

I think what we need is a huge area as large as Wajoam Woodlands or Meriphataud Mountains, which has an outposts like Abyssea where we do mini-quests & areas like Domain invasion where we kill mobs for higher rate of gallimaufry, exempler pts & capacity pts than normal. All sorts of drops appear (aug items, KIs, etc.) that would help us do all the upgrades we need. It's like a present for completing all the missions of all the expansions & add-ons.

I believe that this game still has a lot of potential. I don't know of another one that has such a good story, executed so well. I think FFXI would be perfect for a makeover with AI. Everything in this game is heavily text-based, and that's something AI can excel at. I just heard of some old JPRGs being voiced over by an AI.

The whole devs moving on to greener pastures and the game being 20yrs old holds ZERO weight when you consider that EQ, EQ2, Ultima, LotRO and WoW are all of a comparable age and are still continuing to be worthwhile investments for the games' producers.

I appreciate that some individuals don't want to work on old tech, but there are plenty that would, if given the opportunity.

FFXIV is the poster boy of the successful reboot and even now the teams involved are working to update graphics to the current gen and provide new types of content.

I strongly agree with the posters above who have said that S-E do not recognise the intrinsic value of the FFXI IP. They have only comparatively recently understood the intrinsic value of the FFVII IP, and its current development arguably exceeds both XV and XVI in accomplishment.

The fact is that S-E refuse to consider what they see as a gamble of investment in bringing FFXI into the modern day. They have no conviction of their own product, because the only staff that share our conviction are weak leaders. A parallel example of this could play out differently is how the Dragon Quest MMO was treated. There are ways to make persistent worlds attractive that don't just involve power creep, but no-one is working to conceive that.

My observation is that the reason for this is that S-E have lost nearly all individuals who have creative capability to make Final Fantasy games (I think the VII-R team are the current exception). I think this has been shown with the lack of innovation shown with FFXIV after Heavensward and very obviously with FFXV, FFXVI and nearly all of the FF-adjacent games across all platforms (especially mobile). I am not particularly knocking the technical skill of programmers and creative skill of artists and story-writers who have proven that they can produce games that appear to be at the AAA-level.

What FFXI is lacking is a leader with vision and drive. A leader who can put together a ten-year plan for the game, balance the financial expectation with the investment, and ensure that the risk wouldn't preclude further progress.

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Originally Posted by Haldarn

The whole devs moving on to greener pastures and the game being 20yrs old holds ZERO weight when you consider that EQ, EQ2, Ultima, LotRO and WoW are all of a comparable age and are still continuing to be worthwhile investments for the games' producers.

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Were any of those titles designed and developed with the PlayStation 2 in mind though? ^^;

Had they moved to a more open platform on the side already ages past, perhaps things would be different. It is very difficult to imagine them to get the funding now, but would definitely be nice to see (perhaps if they open-sourced certain parts so the community could help for free... ha, yeah, probably getting towards the impossible territory).

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Originally Posted by Dragoy

Were any of those titles designed and developed with the PlayStation 2 in mind though? ^^;

Had they moved to a more open platform on the side already ages past, perhaps things would be different. It is very difficult to imagine them to get the funding now, but would definitely be nice to see (perhaps if they open-sourced certain parts so the community could help for free... ha, yeah, probably getting towards the impossible territory).

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OMG you just PS2 Limitations'd me!! lol

I think if someone at S-E had some initiative, they'd be talking to Microsoft about funding a recode on the basis that it's included in GamePass or the upcoming XIV subscription. And I'd probably go to MS with a list of community members who have already redeveloped the graphics, recreated the environment in Unreal, coded essential add-ons and have deep knowledge of the game's databases. With assistive AI, a huge amount of the legwork can now be automated.

IMO it's do-able and a low financial risk based on possible return. With a gfx update, UI overhaul that keeps the classic feel and full integration of a gearswap system you've got a challenging, mostly solo-able MMORPG with hundreds of hours of quality gameplay.

Honestly, if SE's idea of "western outreach" is to simply partner with Microsoft, that feels like the bare minimum they could do. It's also as if the company is just trying to stay afloat until someone purchases them.

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Originally Posted by Haldarn

OMG you just PS2 Limitations'd me!! lol

I think if someone at S-E had some initiative, they'd be talking to Microsoft about funding a recode on the basis that it's included in GamePass or the upcoming XIV subscription. And I'd probably go to MS with a list of community members who have already redeveloped the graphics, recreated the environment in Unreal, coded essential add-ons and have deep knowledge of the game's databases. With assistive AI, a huge amount of the legwork can now be automated.

IMO it's do-able and a low financial risk based on possible return. With a gfx update, UI overhaul that keeps the classic feel and full integration of a gearswap system you've got a challenging, mostly solo-able MMORPG with hundreds of hours of quality gameplay.

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Hee hee, I had a "PS2 limitations" sentence there for a bit too, but it got cancelled. ;b

I do believe it is still very much a problem, because indeed, they'd basically need to make everything from scratch depending on how they initially wrote things (I think they could re-use the assets, or enhanced versions of them even).

I think they've said it themselves at least a few times: they'd need to re-do the game, and for management, they need the charts to say it will be worth it... how to sell that to the management at this day and age?

Japanese companies especially seem very strict to certain ways, and I am honestly a bit surprised to see we still have FFXI officially running!

It most certainly would not be if people like Matsui and Fujito did not care for it as much as they do (I think).