WS distance or "where did my TP go?"

Either my search skills suck or I am going crazy but I find it hard to believe this hasn't been mentioned before.

Losing TP on WS is just wrong. It's the reason why RNG were always bad team DDs, contrary to popular belief, because every WS they do they pull hate with and consequently make three other DDs lose their TP.

There's already a calculated risk for melees to lose their TP, it's called a miss. But losing TP cause you mistargeted in the heat of battle and selected a target that's miles away, that just doesn't make sense. No other spell, JA or any action is affected by this. Would love to see that addressed.

Either you're close enough and the WS goes off (using TP) or you're out of range and then nothing happens (no TP loss). Enough with this stupidity, fix this.

TP loss upon being just slightly too far away is one of the most annoying feelings you can get from this game. Why the heck does this "feature" still even exist?!

I find it annoying also.

However, because there is supposed to be some skill involved in the game:

1) Distance estimates are part of the challenge
2) Hate control and player communication is supposed to be an element of the game. Meaning the Ranger needs to talk to the party members as well as calculate if they are going to generate enough enmity to pull the mob to them.

If you lost your TP, it means you attempted to do something that wasn't possible because of a miscalculation, either distance or someone pulls the mob away. You'll also notice that a WS will hit at a slightly larger range than a regular melee hit. Thieves are probably the ones who notice this the most. Since, usually there is another body between you and the enemy. I will be standing behind the tank getting the message the mob is out of range. But, then WS and hit the mob.

Guessing you guys aren't long-time players. This doesn't happen that often to veterans. And, when it does, it's clear why it happened. It's just a part of getting better at the game. And, one of the few skills that is required to melee.

You know you can ultimately fix this issue by positioning yourself around the mob, where your backside it twoards the RNG (Not neccessairly between the mob and the RNG for Conal AoE Issues).

Rng pulls hate, mob moves, says you cannot see target, WS does'nt go off, no TP lost, have a cookie.

I would not want to change the current system away from this, because it works on the mobs too making kiting situations safer and more viable.

The RNG was just one example. And yes, it can be avoided, and yes, if you use it it's (to some degree) your fault. That doesn't mean it's in any way good or challenge or shouldn't be replaced.

I do consider myself a veteran, and I never said it happens a lot, but when it does it's really frustrating. It just makes no sense and I believe it's an oversight in the game dynamic, akin to the paralyze issue. It spends your TP before the WS happens. However, it spends TP before the WS check happens as well. And that is different to every other similar game mechanic:

Here's a list of similar actions and the steps in their execution:
TP consumption > WS check > WS effect
Spell check > MP consumption > Spell effect
JA check > JA recast > JA effect
(Ranged) Attack check > Delay activation > (Ranged) Attack
Item check > Item consumption > Item effect

As you can see, WS is the only one that doesn't follow the pattern. And considering it makes little to no sense, I doubt this was done intentionally.

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Originally Posted by Swords

I would not want to change the current system away from this, because it works on the mobs too making kiting situations safer and more viable.

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I hadn't considered this, but this is a very good point! It takes lots of skill to pull a fast one on the mob like that, and I don't think that that particular aspect of the game should be so ruined. ^^

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Originally Posted by Tamarsamar

I hadn't considered this, but this is a very good point! It takes lots of skill to pull a fast one on the mob like that, and I don't think that that particular aspect of the game should be so ruined. ^^

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Apples and oranges. Kiting won't be affected much by this, one could even argue that it would make kiting easier. You could still outrun moves the same as before, I didn't say the move should go through. I'm just saying you shouldn't lose TP because of it. And so what if the mob doesn't lose TP? It won't use the move again right away, because you'll probably be out of range anyway. And even if it did, it would just waste even more time while being kited, making it easier to cut corners.

I have been playing for 7 years and this is irritating in certain situations when hate is bouncing around like no tomorrow, in which case i usually just hit disengage and stand there while people die, i detest people that pull hate and then run it around "i'm gona die i'm gonna die and taking it 5 feet out of range is going to help me, especially by running out of range of the mages who can save my dumb ass!" Yeah.... been there too much, anyway, by general rule i don't think it needs something that needs that much attention. To the person that posted about attempting to ws on something 'miles' away, this isn't true. There is a distance that you will lose tp if you attempt to ws on the mob from, but beyond that it will say "the monster is out of range" and you will not lose tp, just like a spell not going off if the mob runs out of range.

I think the most annoying part is for ranged WSes, where you try a long distance and notice that, yes, you were slightly too far away and lost all TP.

The real problem you have here is a failure of hate control. Properly manage hate and a mob never moves.

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Originally Posted by thefinalrune

The real problem you have here is a failure of hate control. Properly manage hate and a mob never moves.

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It can still go wrong, as has been pointed out before, even if the mob doesn't move at all.

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Originally Posted by Kavik

To the person that posted about attempting to ws on something 'miles' away, this isn't true. There is a distance that you will lose tp if you attempt to ws on the mob from, but beyond that it will say "the monster is out of range" and you will not lose tp, just like a spell not going off if the mob runs out of range.

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I was just exaggerating, but it's still quite far, up to 25' TP will be lost. The distance for ranged WS is 15' for example.

It's stupid that they fix it for summoner avatars but not actual human players.

SE fixed Summoner so that when the mob was too far away, it wouldn't effect the Summoner's Blood Pact Timer, and they could go again.

Why is Summoner the one job out of twenty that got a fix?

I think that maybe there could be a slight time-penalty, so that if someone does a weaponskill and the mob is too far away, the player cannot perform a weaponskill for X-amount of time, but does not lose TP.

I agree with all of this, it's really stupid.

But I appreciate that mobs lose their TP when you're too far away, I assume that would change if it was to change for the players too.

You’ll be happy to know that the development team is currently looking into ways to fix the issue where all your TP is lost when you are unable to fire off a weapon skill due to being too far away.

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Originally Posted by Camate

You’ll be happy to know that the development team is currently looking into ways to fix the issue where all your TP is lost when you are unable to fire off a weapon skill due to being too far away.

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It's raining great announcements. Seriously, just came back home and suddenly so many good news in threads I thought long forgotten. Thanks a lot for saving a bad day for me.

You know, I wonder just how different (for the better) that game would have been had SE had forums like this and listened and acted upon feedback from players during the first 8 years of the game's life and not just, as it seems to me, as a result of their panic over the catastrophe FFXIV turned out to be, which was a class case of a developer totally refusing to listen to feedback even from the testers they actually recruited supposedly to do just that: give feedback.

I guess we'll never know.

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Originally Posted by Kraggy

You know, I wonder just how different (for the better) that game would have been had SE had forums like this and listened and acted upon feedback from players during the first 8 years of the game's life and not just, as it seems to me, as a result of their panic over the catastrophe FFXIV turned out to be, which was a class case of a developer totally refusing to listen to feedback even from the testers they actually recruited supposedly to do just that: give feedback.

I guess we'll never know.

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We can still guess. I'm guessing great. I'm still discovering things, small things, that bother me about the game, which I've totally forgotten. Or rather, not noticed, because I got so used to dealing with them. Inventory, Delivery, Treasure, AH interface, Chat log glitches, gameplay glitches, tons of think I simply learned to put up with. This idea, for example, I posted it two months after the forums went online, simply because I didn't think of it before, even though it's been annoying me for years. I just learned to put up with that. Maybe if these forums were there from the start, that wouldn't have happened in the first place.

That's amazing news! Never thought about that, but it happens all the time to me! I blame the Rangers! >< /stare!

ok, this is good, thank you. As long as you are looking into things like this, could you have them look at losing consumables if you try to use them while paralyzed? If you are paralyzed, you just failed to use them, you didn't throw them away...

Glad this is being fixed. This should have been done 9 years ago.

My RNG says thank you SE. Have the reasons I get no love for my RNG is the melee don't want me moving the mob out of range of their WS and losing TP.

This kinda ranks up there with Robber crabs aggroing, learn to S&I, and learn to WS @_@

On my Ranger hate control = not shooting, hate control is having the gimp DDs get less gimp. So the argument about learning hate control is bs, this is why on my ranger I took up using a multi hit weapon to tp on the monster and then ws at melee range since I STILL TAKE HATE

Now about the 13k items getting consumed under paralyze ?

So basically this will mean that mobs will be able to use tp moves even after running out of range to avoid them. Kinda sucks in that sense IMO.

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Originally Posted by Evilaion

So basically this will mean that mobs will be able to use tp moves even after running out of range to avoid them. Kinda sucks in that sense IMO.

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I don't know why people keep bringing up this argument.

1. Their TP moves still won't go off, no matter how often they try
2. They won't be using TP moves all the time, they don't always WS when they have TP
3a. They generate TP really fast either way, even with full Subtle Blow
3b. Many mobs have very high Regain too

This could be a change to VIT for crit and agi for subtle blow, only on the player side, just an fyi