Vagary (alternative battlefields) are too difficult.

The single fight vagary bosses are too difficult for the intended audience (solo players in average gear).

These battlefields drop nothing, they are there purely for 119 Af3 upgrades.

They are not extremely hard for geared players but they are hard for players trying to unlock af3 119 in below average gear (especially the later ones). Getting help for these is near impossible, since they need buyable items to enter and they get nothing at all from it.

This was added as a way for solo players to unlock +119 af3, it is not fit for purpose.

You need to make these fights easier, especially since you just added Sortie.

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Originally Posted by Pixela

The single fight vagary bosses are too difficult for the intended audience (solo players in average gear).

These battlefields drop nothing, they are there purely for 119 Af3 upgrades.

They are not extremely hard for geared players but they are hard for players trying to unlock af3 119 in below average gear (especially the later ones). Getting help for these is near impossible, since they need buyable items to enter and they get nothing at all from it.

This was added as a way for solo players to unlock +119 af3, it is not fit for purpose.

You need to make these fights easier, especially since you just added Sortie.

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They are far from too hard, lol.

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

They are far from too hard, lol.

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I wouldn't say too hard, but job-restrictive. If you already have the gear for your jobs, you have a lot more flexibility than if you're the people who need these rewards for the jobs they play.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I wouldn't say too hard, but job-restrictive. If you already have the gear for your jobs, you have a lot more flexibility than if you're the people who need these rewards for the jobs they play.

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They weren't created to be solo events. So there is nothing job-restrictive about it. Entering solo is a courtesy and so was the creation of these fights for easier unlocking.

Players unable to properly plan for how to encounter these old bosses will need to figure out how they are going so wrong and/or team up. These fights are considerably easier than when they were released over seven years ago. Body and legs unlock specifically have mechanics which will punish players who choose to ignore them or fail to mitigate them.

Imagine a gamer asking for a game to be easier in 2022... yikes

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They weren't created to be solo events. So there is nothing job-restrictive about it. Entering solo is a courtesy and so was the creation of these fights for easier unlocking.

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Yeah, but nobody does vagary unless there's a campaign for it. So you kinda have to low man it if you need something *now*. And that means you can't just take whatever jobs you want.

Had to ask better geared players to help clearing these as well. Just last night doing unlock for legs, had to ask, having gotten incident where my game suddenly DC-ed right after entering & when relogged back, immediately ejected me from fight & entry KI got used. And glad I did, coz NM ends up butchering healer & caster trust, leaving me struggle healing as RUN on my helper, managed to win it barely with few HP left.


It is ironic how the alternate content seemed to be made for solo, yet only those geared much better than the unlocks worth who the only one that can actually solo them. Then again... they are for end game gearing & majority are supposed to be not that easy to unlock, hence can't really judge.

Yeah... Plouton is... fun. >.>

Been a while since I fought any of them, and I definitely forgot about the mechanics on that one. I guess I got it down below half health pretty fast, but will need to try again to see if I can get around the elements as a samurai...

It does hit pretty hard still, ~600 with regular hits on a samurai without anything too special on (Artifact +3/+2/Ambuscade +2 gear with an almost completely upgraded Kogarasumaru), so it doesn't seem like it's just a walk in the park for any job just using trust magic. A tank that actually moves /away/ from the party should definitely be great here. :V

I do agree though, that they probably could be more simple-like, considering what the reward is, but I'm not necessarily saying they should be too easy to solo with only alter egos in the party.

It's one thing for the difficulty of these battlefields to not be addressed under normal conditions for years, but if you just added a new battlefield to make the next stage and most new players still can't get to af3 119 maybe check in on that. The level of these monsters need to be lowered, Vagary is fine but the single battlefield versions are not.

I've helped a few people with these fights and to me they aren't that bad because of how much progression i have but these players tell me how they tried to beat it 10+ times and failed every time and when we are fighting they get one shot over and over, it's stupid.

Lower the bosses levels down.

Even the easier one can drain a trusts mp pool at around the 30-40% mark due to poison and then you're done, cause once a players trusts mp is gone they are dead. The others either hit really hard or do massive aoe damages.

oh and they don't have hp bars if i remember correctly, which is another stupid idea on content aimed at the kind of players that need clears to upgrade gear.

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Originally Posted by Pixela

but if you just added a new battlefield to make the next stage and most new players still can't get to af3 119 maybe check in on that.

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Maybe all of these people who haven't done this seven year old content can team up with each other to get it done.

Players that have leveled 1 to 99 solo are not going to magically team up, they are not going to make the groups and players that know how to play and make groups won't make them because they prefer to sell clears instead.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Yeah, but nobody does vagary unless there's a campaign for it. So you kinda have to low man it if you need something *now*. And that means you can't just take whatever jobs you want.

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Irrelevant, and players do clear Vagary outside of campaigns. Also, there is no one else in the world to team up with or no friend to lend a hand? This whole assertion is ridiculous, and the OP isn't taking personal responsibility.

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Originally Posted by Pixela

Players that have leveled 1 to 99 solo are not going to magically team up, they are not going to make the groups and players that know how to play and make groups won't make them because they prefer to sell clears instead.

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This is one of my biggest issues with FFXI. I remember it used to be really social, people would shout to actually do content instead of buy it and stand there doing nothing. Hey, if they wanna do that fine...however, I miss the days of teaming up with random people, having fun and getting content done. Now everything is either solo, or buy it :( I mean I have a few Linkshells that do all of this, and they're really nice and have cool people in it, so at least there is that.

I remember people saying back in the day "I don't play FFXI for the game play, I mainly play because the people" ; ;

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Originally Posted by Pixela

Players that have leveled 1 to 99 solo are not going to magically team up, they are not going to make the groups and players that know how to play and make groups won't make them because they prefer to sell clears instead.

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What's the point of being on an overcrowded overfocused server and NOT teaming up with other people?

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

Irrelevant, and players do clear Vagary outside of campaigns. Also, there is no one else in the world to team up with or no friend to lend a hand? This whole assertion is ridiculous, and the OP isn't taking personal responsibility.

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Look, maybe you're mr. popular and the whole server is at your disposal, but that's not true for everyone. The fact that this isn't an issue for you doesn't make it irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Look, maybe you're mr. popular and the whole server is at your disposal, but that's not true for everyone. The fact that this isn't an issue for you doesn't make it irrelevant.

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Nah, he's right on this one. There is already a way to make it easier: team up with other players.

Also, he may be popular, but is it popular in a good way?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Look, maybe you're mr. popular and the whole server is at your disposal, but that's not true for everyone. The fact that this isn't an issue for you doesn't make it irrelevant.

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This is an incorrect assessment to basic fact of the matter I attested to.

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Originally Posted by Catmato

Nah, he's right on this one. There is already a way to make it easier: team up with other players.

Also, he may be popular, but is it popular in a good way?

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Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Catmato

Nah, he's right on this one. There is already a way to make it easier: team up with other players.

Also, he may be popular, but is it popular in a good way?

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Aside from the fact that Vagary is being made out to be easier than it really is- As I said: Yes, the best way to do it is to team up with everyone. I never disagreed with that. But sometimes, some of us don't have that option. As I said before, Maybe it's different on Asura, but over here on lil' ol shiva, you'll be hard pressed to find anyone wanting to do Vagary outside of a campaign. In fact that's generally the way things go on not-Asura-odin-bahamut. People do what there's active campaigns for more often than not. If you want that empy armor right now, you'd better be playing a meta job.

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Thank you.

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What are you thanking him for?

I never disagreed that the best way to do content is to group. Again: SOMETIMES SOME OF US DONT HAVE THAT OPTION. Yes, I do have friends. But they all have their own wants and needs too, so unless they align, it can be difficult to get enough of them together.

And I have to agree with the OP: Doing these fights pretty much means you have better stuff than what they potentially give in the first place. Sure, with an alliance of 18 undergeared players all on meta jobs, it's not that difficult. You could also be ML40, but that didn't exist when this content was at its peak (and is an ungodly amount of grinding.

I think when you compare to the amount of work and effort required for AF/relic armor, I think most people would agree empy is more difficult. You can grind Omen and Dyna by yourself- slowly, sure, but it's easy. For Vagary, there's no escaping that you either need to be overgeared or can get a decent group of friends together.

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Also, there is no one else in the world to team up with or no friend to lend a hand?

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You need more than just one, really, and no, I rarely hear of or see people doing Vagary outside of the campaigns for it. Now, that's starting to change with the ability to upgrade empy further, but if you cared about empy armor before, well, this week, you pretty much had to wait for a vagary campaign.

Maybe they could impliment something like they did for sinister reign, where they make a lesser fight just so people can get the unlocks done, enter a battlefield with a deleveled boss and the reward is access to empy unlocks.

It doesn't have to be complicated, if the players want to farm items then team up for the main vagery event, but don't restrict access to empy gear to fights people rarely do.

Haven't they learned how Asura operates? Pay to Play.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Aside from the fact that Vagary is being made out to be easier than it really is- As I said: Yes, the best way to do it is to team up with everyone. I never disagreed with that. But sometimes, some of us don't have that option. As I said before, Maybe it's different on Asura, but over here on lil' ol shiva, you'll be hard pressed to find anyone wanting to do Vagary outside of a campaign. In fact that's generally the way things go on not-Asura-odin-bahamut. People do what there's active campaigns for more often than not. If you want that empy armor right now, you'd better be playing a meta job.

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There's at least one group on Leviathan, potentially the least populated server, that runs vagary regularly. Maybe if your server isn't working for you, you could try a different one.

Need to point this out for a few people.

Making posts/replies about something does not mean YOU PERSONALLY need that thing, I know some peoples minds only operate though the lens of self interest but others do not.

The point being made is that new / returning players are having problems with this and it needs to be addressed, due to adding new content aimed at being the next rung on this ladder.

If they can be killed by a warrior in 5/5 sulevia+2 and kaja axe with a trust tank and healer, then they are not too hard.

If they can't, then they are too hard.

No ones opinion matters. Never tried so don't know.

I haven't ever seen on Quetzalcoatl, anyone complain about this, probably because everyone gets help.

But more so, I'd bet because, nobody on Quetzalcoatl buys EXP, because nobody advertises it, thus by the time players reach Lv. 99 they have been capping their Skills and have decent gear.

I have played on Asura and ran a Linkshell that was very popular, because I helped everyone with content, and one thing I noticed was the amount of players who paid to skip EXP and told me they had very low Skill (Weapon / Magic), hell, one Lv. 99 Thief asked me to kill Siren because they couldn't hit it enough, the Lower level Story Siren, not the Avatar battle.

Have soloed Ambuscade on N (the harder version) as SMN with a Party of new players who couldn't do enough damage, and VD (the easier version) for the same reason. So many players skip skip skip without a thought. They can't even farm Sparks because too many bots in Escha plus they lack Skill.

So, the Solo bosses should be doable by decently geared players with capped skill and some NPC food, and also some decent Trusts, not the four basic ones you get handed to you.
If not, you must be doing something wrong, I've done them myself with no help, and if I did need help I'd just ask, but I know these can be do Solo.

You can't just blast through the content with NQ Ambuscade trash or worse, but quite a bit of it you can.
I can beat these with my Mule SMN that has 280 smn skill with AF 109 from Deeds reward with a capped Staff skill and Lv. 30 rdm sub.

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Originally Posted by Catmato

There's at least one group on Leviathan, potentially the least populated server, that runs vagary regularly. Maybe if your server isn't working for you, you could try a different one.

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No thanks. It works out fine for me most of the time. I'd rather see some Asurans move off to the ohter servers instead, so everyone, including them, will have a better experience.

But I've asked in my linkshells and yelled for it on many occasions. I only get takers if there's a campaign on. Fortunately I don't have a pressing need for it anymore.

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But more so, I'd bet because, nobody on Quetzalcoatl buys EXP, because nobody advertises it, thus by the time players reach Lv. 99 they have been capping their Skills and have decent gear.

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We have this one guy named Jobpoints who does it but they actually aren't always on and so im not sure how many takers they actually get.

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Originally Posted by BST

I haven't ever seen on Quetzalcoatl, anyone complain about this, probably because everyone gets help.

But more so, I'd bet because, nobody on Quetzalcoatl buys EXP, because nobody advertises it, thus by the time players reach Lv. 99 they have been capping their Skills and have decent gear.

I have played on Asura and ran a Linkshell that was very popular, because I helped everyone with content, and one thing I noticed was the amount of players who paid to skip EXP and told me they had very low Skill (Weapon / Magic), hell, one Lv. 99 Thief asked me to kill Siren because they couldn't hit it enough, the Lower level Story Siren, not the Avatar battle.

Have soloed Ambuscade on N (the harder version) as SMN with a Party of new players who couldn't do enough damage, and VD (the easier version) for the same reason. So many players skip skip skip without a thought. They can't even farm Sparks because too many bots in Escha plus they lack Skill.

So, the Solo bosses should be doable by decently geared players with capped skill and some NPC food, and also some decent Trusts, not the four basic ones you get handed to you.
If not, you must be doing something wrong, I've done them myself with no help, and if I did need help I'd just ask, but I know these can be do Solo.

You can't just blast through the content with NQ Ambuscade trash or worse, but quite a bit of it you can.
I can beat these with my Mule SMN that has 280 smn skill with AF 109 from Deeds reward with a capped Staff skill and Lv. 30 rdm sub.

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That's the problem. Players hit a basic wall solo, and rather than care or try to improve they just want the wall removed.

That is the average gamer these days... depressing. In the old days you would have been beat up for saying these things

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

That's the problem. Players hit a basic wall solo, and rather than care or try to improve they just want the wall removed.

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That's not true. I'm all for such things. But not all walls are reasonable. A wall should be a challenge to overcome. having needlessly confusing and redundant items is not a challenge. And things that offer similar quality items should have comparabile difficulty.

There's also inconsistent difficulty here. Sortie is a joke and makes vagary look easier by comparison when it comes to getting empyrean upgrades, despite sortie being for a higher upgrade level. Do you not agree there should be a difficulty progression from lower tier stuff to higher tier stuff?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

That's not true. I'm all for such things. But not all walls are reasonable. A wall should be a challenge to overcome. having needlessly confusing and redundant items is not a challenge. And things that offer similar quality items should have comparabile difficulty.

There's also inconsistent difficulty here. Sortie is a joke and makes vagary look easier by comparison when it comes to getting empyrean upgrades, despite sortie being for a higher upgrade level. Do you not agree there should be a difficulty progression from lower tier stuff to higher tier stuff?

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It is true because it's how players treat XI anymore.

If choosing to solo empty +1 unlock in the alternative BF provided instead of teaming up is a challenge to overcome for these people. Then it isn't needlessly confusing or redundant. The person just isn't prepared and fails by their own means, as they should in this case.

Also something like Leshonn in Sortie is more challenging than Putraxia so idk what you are on about. Nor would it matter. You don't adjust something because "Well, something else is easier" or some nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

Also something like Leshonn in Sortie is more challenging than Putraxia so idk what you are on about. Nor would it matter. You don't adjust something because "Well, something else is easier" or some nonsense.

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Yes you do, when a content you release to upgrade something further than the previous content is, at least for the purposes of carrying out said upgrades, not as difficult. Which I feel that it is.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Yes you do, when a content you release to upgrade something further than the previous content is, at least for the purposes of carrying out said upgrades, not as difficult. Which I feel that it is.

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Vagary isn't difficult at all, and there is no requirement that upgrade content be a certain difficultly. I expect the +3s will be more difficult. Either way, it doesn't really matter.