I know it's been beaten to death but...

Yes, this is another race/gender topic to add to this forum I'm afraid. :(

I've noticed most players who want it do so because they aren't happy with the race they choose or just want something new. But I have a different opinion on this you see. I've browsed through several topics made about this and didn't see anyone whom had my personal experiences. However, I've come to share this because I think it's a growing problem within this game ( However if this specific thing I'm going to bring up was already addressed I do apologize. )

Over the three and a half years I've played this game I've played as a Female Elvaan and it's become an inconvenience. I love playing as this race but you see, the problem I've been having for the past several years was sexual harassment. I had several friends who played as female characters who have also experienced this problem...

Not a day goes by where I don't wish I could magically change my Elvaan to a male to prevent this from happening. I truly love this game and I do like the race I'm playing as and I've gotten way too far to just start a new character. I just wish that there was a way, any way, to change a characters gender because I am utterly disgusted by how some male players treat me. I don't even care if they made the transaction cost as much as $50, I would pay it.

I'm sorry for spamming this forum about another topic in regards to this but I figured I would shed some light on the darker side of this as I had not seen it brought up.

silly woman theres not girls on the internet, just tell them how hung you are or stop flaunting your sexuality problem solved

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Originally Posted by Reiii

Yes, this is another race/gender topic to add to this forum I'm afraid. :(

I've noticed most players who want it do so because they aren't happy with the race they choose or just want something new. But I have a different opinion on this you see. I've browsed through several topics made about this and didn't see anyone whom had my personal experiences. However, I've come to share this because I think it's a growing problem within this game ( However if this specific thing I'm going to bring up was already addressed I do apologize. )

Over the three and a half years I've played this game I've played as a Female Elvaan and it's become an inconvenience. I love playing as this race but you see, the problem I've been having for the past several years was sexual harassment. I had several friends who played as female characters who have also experienced this problem...

Not a day goes by where I don't wish I could magically change my Elvaan to a male to prevent this from happening. I truly love this game and I do like the race I'm playing as and I've gotten way too far to just start a new character. I just wish that there was a way, any way, to change a characters gender because I am utterly disgusted by how some male players treat me. I don't even care if they made the transaction cost as much as $50, I would pay it.

I'm sorry for spamming this forum about another topic in regards to this but I figured I would shed some light on the darker side of this as I had not seen it brought up.

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My bullshit detector is going off.

you guys are mean -.-

I can see the issue with this and like i said in other threads SE should be like wow here, more ways to make money. Paid race/ sex/ server changes, more ways to make money ( though se got on for server already)

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Originally Posted by Rambus

you guys are mean -.-

I can see the issue with this and like i said in other threads SE should be like wow here, more ways to make money. Paid race/ sex/ server changes, more ways to make money ( though se got on for server already)

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Yeah but that whole post just reeks of manure. Op is trying to convince SE to change their stance by casting it as a sexual harrasement issue. It's obvious they spent a lot of time carefully wording that post and it just comes off as completely fake.

But by some chance it's legit, there's a simple solution.

/blacklist add <name>

PROBLEM SOLVED!

This post is legit, it's not fake at all. Also it's awkward to blist others when they take the time to get friendly with you before suddenly acting like a scumbag. I can't count how many guys I hit it off with on this game only to out of no where act disgusting towards me. I have indeed blisted people before however and honestly I can blist all I want but it still leaves me with a sick feeling at the end of the day.

Yes. It's really hard to blist people who turn a 180 OUT OF NOWHERE and start having cyber sex with you in /tell messages out of nowhere.

That is what they're doing, right? If they're just winking or being flirty and you call them scumbags for that then you should consider a future of loneliness.

I mean really, how hard is it to tell someone no then blist them when they don't stop? I don't care if they were nice to you at the beginning. Still, unless every guy you meet is trying to cyber you instantly, there's no reason for alarm. Ever. And if they DO try and do that, maybe you should stop flaunting your gamer girl status around like a trophy.


This basically sums up how I feel about this topic:
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/563041

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

Yeah but that whole post just reeks of manure. Op is trying to convince SE to change their stance by casting it as a sexual harrasement issue. It's obvious they spent a lot of time carefully wording that post and it just comes off as completely fake.

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should be changed regardless of reason they need the extra revenue

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Originally Posted by Kagato

Yes. It's really hard to blist people who turn a 180 OUT OF NOWHERE and start having cyber sex with you in /tell messages out of nowhere.

That is what they're doing, right? If they're just winking or being flirty and you call them scumbags for that then you should consider a future of loneliness.

I mean really, how hard is it to tell someone no then blist them when they don't stop? I don't care if they were nice to you at the beginning. Still, unless every guy you meet is trying to cyber you instantly, there's no reason for alarm. Ever. And if they DO try and do that, maybe you should stop flaunting your gamer girl status around like a trophy.


This basically sums up how I feel about this topic:
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/563041

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The reason it's difficult to blist some of them is due to the fact that some of us have genuinely gotten along and they've helped me a lot. There's a guilt factor to it because of this. Getting along with someone wonderfully and then having them act inappropriately towards you is difficult to handle, it feels surreal almost, you sit and wonder if this person really just said these nasty things to you. It's hard to take action when you want to remain friends with some of these people but feel unsure if they'll speak to you in such a way again. I hope you can better understand now that I explained it better.

Also, I normally don't tell people my gender at all, I let them assume. S,o I don't really flaunt my gamer girl status around as you think I do.

As silly as this topic is, even I think "kitchen" remarks are stupid.

If SE doesn't allow same sex marriages in Vana'diel, they certainly aren't going to allow transsexual elves.

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Originally Posted by Reiii

The reason it's difficult to blist some of them is due to the fact that some of us have genuinely gotten along and they've helped me a lot. There's a guilt factor to it because of this. Getting along with someone wonderfully and then having them act inappropriately towards you is difficult to handle, it feels surreal almost, you sit and wonder if this person really just said these nasty things to you. It's hard to take action when you want to remain friends with some of these people but feel unsure if they'll speak to you in such a way again. I hope you can better understand now that I explained it better.

Also, I normally don't tell people my gender at all, I let them assume. S,o I don't really flaunt my gamer girl status around as you think I do.

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This is no different than real life. If you feel legitimately harassed, you cut ties or you call the cops/GMs. Period. Cyber-stalking IS a criminal offense and if you do end up in a bad situation you also have the option of, you know, calling the real police.

It's not SE's fault, however, if you are unable to stand up for yourself because it is a friend who is harassing you. This happens every day in real life and people either choose to accept the that their friends had no intention of causing them harm, talking to them, and resolving the problem, or that their friends are fucks and they need better friends. Part of being an adult, of both genders, is being able to handle yourself around other people. If someone says something that you really don't appreciate, you tell them they don't appreciate it and they need to stop now. If they keep it up, you choose to either ignore it or accept that this person obviously does not give a crap about your feelings and does not need to be your friend.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

This is no different than real life. If you feel legitimately harassed, you cut ties or you call the cops/GMs. Period. Cyber-stalking IS a criminal offense and if you do end up in a bad situation you also have the option of, you know, calling the real police.

It's not SE's fault, however, if you are unable to stand up for yourself because it is a friend who is harassing you. This happens every day in real life and people either choose to accept the that their friends had no intention of causing them harm, talking to them, and resolving the problem, or that their friends are fucks and they need better friends. Part of being an adult, of both genders, is being able to handle yourself around other people. If someone says something that you really don't appreciate, you tell them they don't appreciate it and they need to stop now. If they keep it up, you choose to either ignore it or accept that this person obviously does not give a crap about your feelings and does not need to be your friend.

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As someone who does not give a crap about anyone but myself, i am offended by this. What is wrong with being friends with someone simply because they are fun? Why does someone need to care about you to be a friend? Plenty of people (myself included) would define a friend as something like "someone you enjoy being around". I do not see a (strong) relationship between the two things. Just because someone does not care about your feelings does not mean they are not funny/cool/etc, and enjoyable to be around.

Just sayin'.

I have the same issue people make fun of my hair, or the lack of it. Why cant we synth hair tonics that make your hair thick and full of life?

Just look at this example of how my dream hair would look like /sigh

http://usera.ImageCave.com/nphulk/ffxi2/dreamhair.jpg

I had the same hatred of playing a female elvaan, but for different reasons.

I started over. It's not so bad anymore. Pretty easy to get a new character to 90 again and redo storylines and such. I had my Elvaan for 7 years, but I love my taru far more. ^^b

I'm also female in rl and I have played this game a lot longer than the OP. And I have to say, sexual harrassment has never ever been a problem. I don't hide the fact that I'm female. If people I don't know call me "dude", say "he" when they talk about me, or tell me "hey man", I correct them (can't stand being called dude, lol). And despite this, I have never been subjected to sexual harrassment.

Flirting =/= sexual harrassment. If you are so overly sensitive that you perceive harmless flirting as harrassment, you have a problem imo. And if some guys that you are friends with, suddenly do a 180 on you and get all nasty, tell them to stfu and if they don't, blacklist them. It's quite simple really. As Greatguardian already said, stand up for yourself.

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Originally Posted by rog

As someone who does not give a crap about anyone but myself, i am offended by this. What is wrong with being friends with someone simply because they are fun? Why does someone need to care about you to be a friend? Plenty of people (myself included) would define a friend as something like "someone you enjoy being around". I do not see a (strong) relationship between the two things. Just because someone does not care about your feelings does not mean they are not funny/cool/etc, and enjoyable to be around.

Just sayin'.

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Pff, I'd agree completely on a personal level but it's fairly obvious that the OP does care. Either they don't give a shit about rude comments, or they do and are intentionally subjecting themselves to them by either not representing herself or by refusing to remove herself from the situation(s) that result in such comments.

The point was that it she does have some responsibility of her own to handle the situation. GMs and the police are there for when the persistence of the other party does become a criminal act.

I've not witnessed sexual harassment in the open in the game (unless you call my joke flirting with other guys sexual harassment, in which case, a gender change won't help you, if you're on Asura at least), but I don't doubt that it happens, I mean you've got all sorts of people playing including sexually frustrated losers. Sure changing your character's gender will mean people won't know you're a girl, but why should you hide the fact you're female? I'm sure you could report to the GMs, if they don't do anything, then we should be asking for SE to get their butts into gear and do something about it. If their users are being sexually harassed and SE aren't doing anything about it, I'm sure it won't look too good on SE's record, particularly if somebody starts talking to a lawyer.

But that's the thing though - you don't have to put up with sexual harrassment in this game, you can just add people to blacklist for whatever reason you like. And if you give people your phone number/real name/address over the internet and they end up stalking you - well that's your own fault. This isn't a workplace where your employer can get into trouble by allowing sexual harrassment to take place. This is a game we all play of our own free will.

Next time an occurrence of it happens I can safely say I'll consult a GM. As dumb as it may be I never thought of that... I always figured GM's were there for in game issues and not things like this. I'm a bit slow when it comes to linking two and two together. In regards to friends, I'm going to speak up and say that they're behaving inappropriately and let them know I don't appreciate it. I appreciate the feedback though, most of you have made me realize that, durrr, I could call a GM.
Also, just to clarify I know well the difference between flirting and harassment. I don't get mad about flirting, it's when guys tell me in detail about how they would fuck me, things like that are what make me mad because that's just inappropriate.

Well, who could blame them? Elvaan girls are highly bangable.

Yeah. I'm a Elvaan > Mithra guy.

um, harassment is a violation of the ToS, time to start GM calls. Of course the hold times are ridiculous... but that is a complaint they can do something about. if it's in the LS or whatever, complain to the leader, if you are a quality people the leader will do something about it.

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Originally Posted by Reiii

Next time an occurrence of it happens I can safely say I'll consult a GM. As dumb as it may be I never thought of that... I always figured GM's were there for in game issues and not things like this. I'm a bit slow when it comes to linking two and two together. In regards to friends, I'm going to speak up and say that they're behaving inappropriately and let them know I don't appreciate it. I appreciate the feedback though, most of you have made me realize that, durrr, I could call a GM.
Also, just to clarify I know well the difference between flirting and harassment. I don't get mad about flirting, it's when guys tell me in detail about how they would fuck me, things like that are what make me mad because that's just inappropriate.

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Blacklisting would definitely help the issue as well, and may be the first response of a few GMs depending on the details of the situation. If the situation escalates and some person gets ahold of your real life information (Even if you're the one who gave it to them, though honestly that's just a bad idea), you can and should call the police if you feel there is legitimate harassment or a legitimate threat. The police aren't going to ignore you just because "It's a game". Cyberstalking is still stalking and they take it very seriously.

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

But that's the thing though - you don't have to put up with sexual harrassment in this game, you can just add people to blacklist for whatever reason you like. And if you give people your phone number/real name/address over the internet and they end up stalking you - well that's your own fault. This isn't a workplace where your employer can get into trouble by allowing sexual harrassment to take place. This is a game we all play of our own free will.

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Aye I see your point, but B/Listing them doesn't stop them from harassing other people, it doesn't deter them from continuing, if it means SE might ban their precious account, then they might think twice. But I suspect people will do what they feel is appropriate, B/List or GM, the services are there, so of course SE already offers a solution. So obviously they don't need to offer a sex change to accommodate past that.

On the legal side: arguably, people play the game for enjoyment, not to be harassed or face abuse, sure it's free will, using your employment example: you apply for a job out of free will, you accept it out of free will and you go to work out of free will, but what you're not there for is harassment, so the law has your back on that one, well it depends on your country I suppose. So, of course it depends entirely on the law of the country for anything, if they would consider SE liable if they (hypothetically speaking) refuse to act in order to protect its clients/end users from harassment/abuse/discrimination when using one of their services, then it would be a legal issue. I don't know the law of any country well enough to say for certain that it'd be the case and the Internet causes a lot of trouble when it comes to law, but you'd be surprised what people/businesses can be liable for, even in countries that claim to have free speech.

Tell them you're Chris Hansen and that they should take a seat.

Can't argue with that plan. :D

There is a limit to your Blacklist lol.

I'll give you some advice, "Grow a thicker skin." I never would let the things people say on a FFXI bother me at all.

But anyway I do think they should just have paid race changes. I mean they already have paid server changes. So why not have this too. WoW does it but who cares game companies take ideas from eachother all the time.

Ok. Here's some Kagato-approved tips for all you ladies out there. Remember, if it ain't "Kagato," it ain't shit!

1) When being sexually harassed by a stranger on the game, /blist them. Problem instantly solved.
2) When being harassed by someone you thought to be a friend, tell them to stop. If they don't, ignore them and wait for them to stop.
-If they stop, they might ask why you're not talking to them. Say why and hopefully they'll get the clue and back off.
-If they don't stop, regardless if you ignored them or not, yell at them one last time.
-If they continue still, blist and/or call a GM.
3. Never flaunt yourself about what you are. Thats asking for abuse.
4. If all else fails, just say you're a guy...or gay.

Female in real life, female in game here. Never had any sexual harassment issues. Harassment, yes, but that's normal in any online game and honestly, someone calling me names in a game isn't going to upset me.