Hello! Good day to you all.
Today, let's look at the reasons why the new /assist channel isn't working, along with some suggestions to improve on it? Your skepticism is welcome and expected.
Having helped fellow players since 2004, I've got experience in dealing with those seeking support. Linkshells have done exceptionally well in assisting new/returning players since the beginning, and it hasn't changed. Even on the smallest servers there are at least one or two groups who are more than happy taking in players and answering all of their questions.
Therein lies problem #1: We already had the means to assist new/returning players without the new chat channel. By introducing /assist, you're unintentionally undermining those who put in the effort to support in their own way.
Although I understand that some new players won't know how to acquire a linkshell (Concierge NPCs are amazing btw!) and may struggle to find a group, this is exceedingly rare because the details are out there on Wiki sites, Reddit, ffxiah.com, and other places sharing the information.
Before we look in to the next, let me say I understand SE wanting to revamp the mentor system. It was stated years ago they wanted to do something with it, and after being left on the back burner for so long, I welcomed it with open arms. Let's look at the chat channel itself.
#2: So far I have only seen myself and one other person join up as a mentor on my server; most of the time it's just me. No one has used it to ask questions while I have been online. Thus far, I have only used the channel to tell players there is a filter for the assist channel if they do not want to see the messages, however...
... The Chat Filter For /Assist Does Not Work! This Has Been Confirmed And Needs Fixing!
The broken filter discourages players from becoming mentors because others will add them to their /blacklist. By trying to help others, they inadvertently alienate themselves because of the way the channel is set up. This leads us to the next issue.
#3: The chat is very public. It shows up in all the chat logs of those sitting in the zones using /assist. This is a massive issue because veteran players or others who don't want to be flooded with chatter while they are busy (or just don't want it full stop) have no choice.
Imagine if players logged in everyday asking questions? It would be like spam. The assist channel should be made private to mentors and new/returning players who are eligible, and it needs to be across ALL zones. This way it serves like a temporary linkshell without equipping one. However, the fact that new/returning players get this feature for only 48 Hours?! Why?! That's a blip in our game time.
Imagine a server with one mentor and they don't log in for a few days and a player can't find anyone? It's useless. It should be extended to a week at least, because you can't expect mentors (if there are any) to be on 24/7. And speaking of which, here comes the next issue...
#4: When you do a "Mentor Search", it only searches for Mentors in your area by default. This. Is. Wrong. It should do a worldwide search by default, otherwise the chance of them searching for a mentor and happening to see one in their own area is incredibly unlikely.
At the moment, you're having to go through the options to make this a possibility, but most new/returning players won't know how to do this. To them, it will never look like there are mentors online. And talking about using the system...
#5: You're seriously expecting players to know how to use /assiste or /assistj out of the gate? Most players aren't looking at the game manual to find this out. It needs to be inserted in the game from the beginning with a reward for doing so.
There needs to be a big fat arrow pointing 'em toward the NPC with the information. Make it an RoE objective if it helps. And don't make it so they can just skip through it by clicking "Enter". Otherwise, most players aren't going to know it exists or how to use it. Make it interactive with a test or something.
#6: The mute thing smells wrong to me. At the moment it reads like anyone over mastery rank 6 can mute? That's not right. It should only be reserved for mentors who have been there long enough to be trusted to use it.
The feedback system is flawed, because most new/returning players won't know the feature exists. They will take the support on board, but they won't take the time to "thumbs up" because they probably won't know it's there. If they do know about it, people are more likely to ignore it anyways. And leading in to my next point...
#7: The chat is severely limited because you can only post one sentence every minute or two? So if you're wanting to explain something in detail, you can't. Sometimes, this game requires a more detailed explanation, and at the moment the /assist channel does not encourage in-depth chat. You're better off saying.. "Sorry, /tell me because this channel won't let me explain it because of its limit". Or better yet, "Join my Linkshell and we'll talk about it there".
If the point of this is to explain the absolute basics? Then your game manual and tutorial NPCs should already be equipped to answer these. We don't need in-game players explaining the most basic functions. It's a fail otherwise. Mentors should be assisting with things you can't explain with a few sentences in a guide or with NPC dialogue.
#8: Speaking of which, how many "new" players are subscribing? Because it can't be that many. If they are it's more likely on higher population servers where they are so many groups who can take them in to help.
If you're expecting "returning" players to use this? Then that's naive because they already know how to research. The community has spent almost two decades putting everything together on the many Wiki sites and other outlets, and it's easy to find them in a Google search. So who exactly "needs" this feature? From what I see... nobody.
And there we have it. Sorry for the long-winded post, but I needed to get it off my chest. I recently watched a video of the community reps talking to the NuDawn podcast, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. So I hope they see this and can pass on the feedback to the developers. Their heart was absolutely in the right place here! I can respect that. But saying the /assist channel is poorly implemented is an understatement. Thanks.
8 Reasons why the /assist channel isn't working
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11-22-2020, 06:18 AMKylos8 Reasons why the /assist channel isn't working
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11-22-2020, 07:23 AMPixela
I'm starting to wonder if the intention was never to help new players and just to beta test a system to enable "trusted" players to censor RMT in /yell. I hope they don't do this, it will silence the RMT shouts but it will also be abused by people to stop "trolls" or other chat they don't like and although some like this, some of us find them enjoyable.
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11-22-2020, 02:29 PMGlobalVariableAlso will be fun when it gets confused with /assist which is an entirely different thing unrelated to chat.Quote:
#5: You're seriously expecting players to know how to use /assiste or /assistj out of the gate? Most players aren't looking at the game manual to find this out. It needs to be inserted in the game from the beginning with a reward for doing so.
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11-22-2020, 11:50 PMSirmarkiWho? There is no place for politics or cussing in a public viewed chat arena within a MMORPG. People play because they are drained of real life events. Hence the word fantasy (to escape reality).Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixela
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11-23-2020, 12:33 AMGlobalVariableTHIS. So much this. I really wish yell channel would stop being 90%+ politics every time I am trying to get something done that I need yells to get going on..Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirmarki
I'm sick to death of the log just being FILLED with endless arguing about Trump and Hunter Biden etc. -
11-23-2020, 01:40 AMPixelaJust because you want that doesn't mean everyone else does, in an online game you have to accept that other people exist and they aren't carbon copies of you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirmarki
Some want to talk politics, some want to talk about dhamel movie names, some want to talk about turtles. Tolerance of people doing things you don't like is something people just have to learn to deal with if they want to play with other people.
People talk about things I don't like quite often, I just ignore it. -
11-23-2020, 01:45 AMPixela
One of the problems with FFXI honestly is that every chat channel is mixed into one by default, every other MMORPG I have ever played has had tabs for each different chat system. LFG, shout, global, say, party. You have to tab over to each one.
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11-23-2020, 04:41 AMSirmarkiI'm willing to bet that the majority of people don't want to see political chat which is always divisive. I'll rephrase that - US political chat (let's face it, that's all it seems to be anyway) in a fantasy game, on an international/multi-national server.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixela
Many forums have rules about political chat especially, and the last place people want to see it is on an MMORPG. Anyway, I /blist it, but between that, trolls and JP/EXP yells - the blist gets full very quickly. -
11-23-2020, 05:32 AMPixela
You are willing to bet everything you believe is what most people believe. Again, if you want to play online games you have to accept other people exist and they aren't you.
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11-23-2020, 11:16 AMDivinasYou're wrong and he is pretty much right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixela
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11-23-2020, 03:37 PMKylos
All this /yell talk... are you not in the wrong thread??
>> Yell chat spam driving me nuts <<
This thread is about /assist and the Mentor system. -
11-23-2020, 08:10 PMSirmarkiApologies. I was responding to Pixela's comment regarding the /assist and mentor system within this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixela
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11-23-2020, 10:24 PMPixela
The issue with this channel is that they don't get feedback from players when they are working on it, instead they add it and people hate it and then it's abandoned.
The developers don't seem to understand that ffxi players are incredibly blist happy these days (and the reason is because they merge all chat into one channel by default), if they see stuff on the screen that bothers them even slightly they will blist people. They even increased the blist to 200 people now. Which is hilarious, who needs to block 200 people? I've blisted less than 10 people since I started the game 18 years ago.
Modern FFXI is this: don't say anything in /yell at all, don't use /yell to build groups (or if you do, say it once every 5 minutes or you're "spamming"), don't use assist channel AT ALL.
If you do any of these things you will have people blist you. I cringe when I see anyone talking in /assiste because I know lots of people are blisting them every time they say anything, at all. You can want to help people and end up ruining the game for yourself because hundreds of people have now blocked you. you know that time you complained about RMT on yell for 5 minutes? people blocked you because you're "spamming", you know how you asked if anyone needed help and were surprised nobody replied? guess why.
What's the point of adding these things if you're afraid to use them?
If anything they should have lowered the blist to 10, not 200.
The problem with modern players is they don't have much common sense, they will blist hundreds of people for all manner of silly things then complain because they shouted for help with something and nobody helped them or they tried to make a group for CP and nobody joined. "I blist people for silly things, why is nobody replying to me!?"
Assist should have a totally seperate channel, or or be off by default (and only on when "new" players are able to talk on it)
Nothing, should be on by default, we need more splitting of chat. There should be a dedicated LFG channel where people can spam for groups, there should be a dedicated trade channel (for selling, buying services and goods) and yell should be purely for "world chat" that people can turn off if they don't want to see it.
Every other MMORPG does it like this, it's not hard to know why. -
11-23-2020, 10:43 PMSirmarkiMe... (Job Point Sellers, EXP sellers, Mercs and Trolls). Don't care for it....Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixela
Ridiculous statement.. Every public forum has moderation, without it, social media as an example would be more chaotic that it already is. Anybody should have the option to be able to not view stuff they simply don't want to view for any reason they see fit to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixela
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11-23-2020, 11:54 PMPixela
You don't need to block 200 people, you can remove people and add others.
All it does is ruin the community, people seem to forget that when you block someone you can't see anything they say ever again.
When you shout for help or to make a group for something and some of those bored people you blocked send you a tell, you won't see it.
If you go off in yell about RMT and how awful they are and lots of people blist you, you have put limits on how many people you can ever play with after that point. -
11-24-2020, 12:10 AMSirmarkiYou can block 300 people now and no, I'm not going to spend my time going through a list to figure out who is still around and not, unless it gets full again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixela
And no, people I have blocked, I have blocked for a reason. They aren't the type that create content, invite people, they just log in to cause trouble or are here to sell content for gil.
Anyway, if you wish to talk more about this subject... Move it to here:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/t...riving-me-nuts
As it is kind of hi-jacking Kylo's original post. -
11-24-2020, 05:37 AMKylos
Thank you Sir, I know you was just replying to Pixela.
This thread isn't about the black list either, although I will go off topic for a brief moment to say I welcome SE giving us more room to block nuisance players and RMT. I'll probably never reach the limit, but maybe others on higher pop servers have been blocking those who yell a lot (it seems to be an Asura problem though) and need the extra room? It won't affect their chances of playing with others, because they are already enjoying a well-populated server and are only blocking those they won't play with.
Anyways... back on topic.
A good point from Pixela is the fact that players may "fear" chatting in /assist because it will get them blocked. I guess it depends on the type of player, but generally, if you're not spamming /assist every minute of the day, I can't see it being an issue. If you do get blocked by someone because you made one or two posts in the space of 1-2 weeks? Then they probably aren't worth playing with.
That's like blocking every player who uses the Unity chat to get their Records of Eminence objective. It's rare and doesn't affect you, unless it becomes a nuisance, which I believe most mentors would know they shouldn't be blowing up /assist.
However, there may be a problem where some players who want to be mentors feel like they would be rude to use /assist. Granted, this system only works in towns, so it's not like it would be interrupting anyone doing battle content. On lower pop servers you don't get that many yells or unity chat, so it's not like it's adding to the kind of spam Asurans have to deal with.
If someone is blocking a player for trying to be useful when it's not really spam... I'm assuming they aren't the type of player you do content with. Another problem I forgot to mention is the embarrassment factor for new/returning players.
#9: There's a reason players join linkshells or send /tell to veteran players. They don't want the entire server to see them asking silly questions. Now, we all know that any question about how the game works isn't silly, but put yourself in their position.
Do you really want to use a chat function that is shared across the server to ask your questions? I know I wouldn't. You see players in Linkshells saying things like "Sorry if this is a silly question", and we have to respond with "Not at all, your question isn't silly and it could in fact help others too".
Magnifying that for new/returning players is daunting, and I would expect them to choose not to use it. Now, if /assist worked like a temporary Linkshell? They might not feel as bad in sharing their "silly" questions with strangers, because it's either a mentor or other players in the same boat. -
11-24-2020, 11:06 AMPixela
I'm on Asura, nobody is using it for the intended purpose. I've seen 1 person ask a question since it was added.
99% of the chat I see on assist is mentors saying hello, in that same time I've seen 20-30 people asking questions or asking for help with missions in /YELL.
It's a failure because they never ask for player input when designing this stuff. -
11-26-2020, 10:03 PMDzspdref
Can we just get rid of /yell then?
Cannot imagine RMTs wanting to pay for so many more subscriptions to keep up their ability to contact every city/town area without just one bot.
Might boost up the population and help SE's coffers, but think it might keep a LOT more areas a bit more peaceful.
Just an idea.... -
11-26-2020, 11:58 PMPixela
You can filter yell just fine.
Fyi I was here before /yell and RMT just had a bot that did a /seal all and then spammed everyone with tells, and they made characters to do this every few hours to exaust your blists. -
11-27-2020, 07:21 PMSirmarkiI think the best thing to do now yell has been completely high-jacked with out of control spam is to simply turn it off and somehow try to direct genuineQuote:
Originally Posted by Dzspdref
party creating /yells into the new assist channels. Leaving the spam to its own devices. -
12-24-2020, 10:23 PMPixela
The developers stated they were not going to just add this and abandon it, they were going to continue to refine it over future patches.
It has been abandoned, they are not even asking for any feedback.
People who use it often get angry tells, people who use it often to help others get black listed. Because black listing or sending an angry tell is easier than using the chat filter / or they don't know how to do it.
If the developers want feedback, ask us for some. The developers really don't seem to understand the community at all, they keep adding things then seem surprised people are not using it when we can tell them why that is. -
12-27-2020, 10:40 AMKylos
"We will continue to monitor feedback, so if you have any ideas on how to make it even easier to use, please do not hesitate to let us know!" -Akihiko_Matsui
Standing by everything I said in the original post. This feature is dead on arrival and I have yet to see a single question asked on the /assist channel.
While I appreciate the sentiment, it looks very much like this feature is a total waste of time and resource which could have been spent doing something useful. -
12-28-2020, 02:42 AMZehira
I am not sure if anyone who is not a mentor, new or returned player can able to read the assist channel but can't respond. Recently, I see some mentors trying to ask anyone if they need any help. They ranked up by getting more thumbs ups. The assist channel is not much useful yet. Maybe there are some people who are afraid to get blacklisted for using the /assist channel or not knowing this is a new thing.
Maybe, it's your server. I was standing in my mog house this morning and this picture below is what looks like on my screen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylos
https://i.imgur.com/aLqyHOs.jpg -
12-28-2020, 11:52 PMPixela
There is a certain amount shyness with using it, if you want people to use it more and barely anyone does on your server....make a new character and ask some questions on it (yes it's a bit silly but it does work). You'll tend to notice that once that happens, others tend to follow. It's a "you first" "no you first" scenario.
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01-02-2021, 08:53 AMZehira
Still think nobody uses the /assist channel? Okay... Moreover, I don't see any toxic message in the channel.
https://i.imgur.com/jCkjTQQ.jpg -
01-02-2021, 11:31 PMSirmarkiIts definitely gotten more active, and its a refreshing change from the mess that is /yell. Just takes time for people to adapt (and meet the mentor criteria also)Quote:
Originally Posted by Zehira
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01-04-2021, 10:42 AMAlhanelemI mean, what you say isn't true, the devs have already acknowledge issues and feedback in the Digest and will be making updates.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixela
My only issue is the new mentor requirements are obnoxious. I have umpteen gazillion hours of playtime but i never bothered doing most of the regional combat RoEs because I just didn't have any reason to. now i have to teleport to a few dozen different areas to kill crap to fufill this requirement that doesn't even imply i know anything about game content (at least the other RoE objectives make some sense, just not the "kill 10 enemies or an NM in 40 different places").
Also, I realize SE has always wanted to avoid global chat but a channel like this needs to be global. People shouldn't have to stay in towns to carry on a mentor-sprout conversation. -
01-13-2021, 10:30 PMPixela
A problem I'm now noticing with the assist channel is people are starting to rely on it, they like being able to ask for help.
Then they get booted from it after a fairly short amount of time. The time should be extended. -
01-14-2021, 06:35 AMBST
I think the Channel is fine, you are given plenty of time to ask any questions that you might have starting out.
They added an Objective and New NPCs related to it.
I have replied to quite a lot of questions in it myself and usually get even more players sending me /Tell that either don't want to ask the question in the channel or want to ask a Mentor directly.
The thing is, the objective to become a Mentor, doesn't make sense.
In my opinion it should require:
All expansions finished (because it makes sense, help-wise, able to answer questions about them, etc)
Rank 10 in your Nation (again, shows you have done actual story content that players often ask about)
One craft at Lv100 or above (you can answer craft related general questions, etc)
One Mastered job (because you must have knowledge of Limit point/Merit point, Capacity point and finally how Job point systems work, helpful to answer those related questions)
Doesn't that make sense?
Because if you think that killing 200 monsters makes a worthy Mentor instead, you need to learn what the word Mentor means. -
01-14-2021, 08:25 AMAlhanelem
FFXIV keeps players' access to the novice network until they both 168 hours of play time (an entire week of continuous play) AND they'have completed the main story available up to that point and technically have access to endgame.
I realize FFXI isn't as structured and doesn't gate as much content behind the story but it should at least require players to complete one of the nation mission series or something beyond that.