Weapon Skill Damage bug and game balancing.

Since no one dared to bring this up since the fix i figured i should do it myself, but i belive most people agree that the weapon skill damage bug was an happy accident and was wondering if the devs have just fixed it with the mind set that "it was broken" or if they spent some time actualy investigating what was going in the game for the 2 months the issue was present.

In my eyes the bug actually brought out a lot of improvements overall to a very significant number of jobs as well as making a lot of weapon skills that where not used at all ,save for increasing the number of steps an skill chain had, to an state where they are actually contributing for the damage (and yes having extra options is a good thing as stated by our fellow japanese player that helped change the pet enmity category on beastmaster).

Yes i do realize that some weapon skills got extremely powerfull due to the nature on how damage became but i still fail to see this as an issue on a pve balanced game outside the hive mind of players forming a party of meta jobs (wich was present even in the lvl 75 days so we cant say that this is exactly a new issue) and even then in my point of view what this allowed is to multiple people hitting max damage more then once on a multi step skill chain (and there we might have some issues on the tanking side of things).

Other then that i would like to call the attention to another potential benefit of the bug wich was gear progression and the acess to weapon skill damage armors, as you can get some as low as alluvion skirmish aguments (and ambuscade) and work your way to the top from there, without the need of killing something like OU to "grab the one ring that makes victory smite usefull", as this is the major issue on most of the dd jobs nowadays they all work but some require gear that are gated behind monsters that they really have not much ways to deal with by then selfs and are forced to resort to summoner astral conduit zergs in order to get what they need (again nothing wrong in having multiple jobs, and being versatile is an quality that separates a good team player from a bad one, but that should not be the only way to obtain gear and be usefull, this is not to bash summoner zergs either because this is still gated behind an one hour job ability and an fully geared DD on a meta job is actually able to pull off more damage on longer fights, but i would rather have more options to fight that does not require me to have previously beaten what i am trying to beat right now).

Lastly i would like to point out that the amount of shouts that happened for jobs that where not used at all before the bug, i at least saw an massive increase for jobs like mnk, nin , dnc, pup, drg, war, thf, rng wich was to be honest very pleasing to see, even people that previously shouted only for specific jobs started shouting for any kind of damage dealer they could find wich was honestly really awesome and welcome because people felt for once that they where able to be geared for the jobs.

So i would like to ask how the devs aproached this issue and if they are considering reveiwing the weapon skill damage change or if their decision is final and if that is the case what kind of balance they have on the table to bring back those jobs.

Thank you for your time.

I would like to here from the devs why they fixed the weapon skill damage maybe you guys might have been hitting too hard or that they are afraid the bug might get worse and you guys could end up one shooting mega bosses witch I wouldn't mind doing buuuut i'm sure other players would scream bloody murder if that happened.

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Originally Posted by chiefhunglo

I would like to here from the devs why they fixed the weapon skill damage maybe you guys might have been hitting too hard or that they are afraid the bug might get worse and you guys could end up one shooting mega bosses witch I wouldn't mind doing buuuut i'm sure other players would scream bloody murder if that happened.

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considering the 99.999 damage cap and how much of then summoners can do per second during astral conduit that shouldnt be an issue at all.

Also while still on game balance topic i would like to propose a couple more things. First off to reverse the order of the capacity point bonus the job points gifts are given to us, right now this value starts on a low 5% and the last bonus at 1355 jp give us over 30% i belive reversing the order of those would be much more welcome in the long run because it can be kinda unfair for people that have low jp on a job, to ilustrate yesterday i had a party with a friend that we stoped once i had obtained 110 jp , i had already the 1355 gift while he was an fresh corsair at the same amount of time he obtained only 20 jp wich is an extremely low number for the time we went in there i feel that reversing the gifts bonus order would help to aliviate this issue alot (and i belive i am not the first person sugesting this as well).

While still talking about gifts i belive that some gear progression issues on the game can be solved by then as well, right now the diference from a job master rune fencer and a fresh one is only 46 acc, if i take into account that rune fencer has around 1000 acc this means that the same rune fencer leveling on apex mobs in sih gates canot hit at all apex monsters in inner rakznar court wich by comparision need over 1300 acc even when he reaches master, this also means that it canot hit nms with around the same level of evasion to farm for better gear, so i belive that all those gifts should recive a boost so that the total extra acc (and you can also include attack, evasion , pet buffs and magic buffs as well (exept magic attack and magic defense)) should be at least somewhere in between 150 and 200 on a job master. This way the job point progression is more meaningfull while also keeping the current gear relevant enough to ease the both the job point and the gear progression.

Changing subject a bit the next big one would be the ultimate weapon update, i feel a lot of people have been disapointed with those and i have a simple fix for then, the way i see all the ultimate weapons had an proupose in mind since their release in the game (mythics are the job specialization weapon (altough the new superior 5 weapons are fighting for that spot) , aeonics the skillchain / magic burst weapon, relic where originaly the lvl 3 skill chainer finisher untill empyreal came to be and outclassed it) and the aguments should reflect that. With that being said the +30 acc on aeonics could be changed to +30 skill chain bonus / magic burst bonus (and yes i know that the aftermath also improves on that but this extra should help it even further), the +30 acc on mythics should be changed to acomodate one powerfull effect of the superior 5 path c weapons with an extra % on then (for exemple the pupetmaster mythic should have automaton special attack +30%,sam should have sekkanoki:weapon skill damage +110% and so forth), wich would help it solidify their niche as well as not completly outperforming the superior 5, As for the empyreal weapons i would keep the same aguments exept that on the last one i would add an extra weapon skill damage +15% together with the status boost. And last but not least the relic weapons i think it would be more interesting that if instead of changing their aguments you gave then an really powerfull afterglow effect (something like -25% Damage taken to all party or + 50% fast cast something really impactfull), this way they would fill a new role and became more atractive.

As for job adjustments here i have some personal requests, first one is for beastmaster, please allow reward range to increase to at least repair range, reason is that if i run from an meteor that leaves my pet at very low hp i might not be able to get close enough to heal him before the monster auto attacks him to death and this is very frustating, and while in the range topic(and i know this one is most likely to be denied but...) is there also a possibility that the range of the ready/sic gets improved only while under the effect of unleash? specially since summoner astral conduit does exactly the same thing i think it shouldnt hurt too much throwing this out for bst specially since they tend to do only half the summoners damage.

Next one is probably for monk, i see alot of complains in regard to boost, focus and dodge new effects, the last two is about their duration being too short and the first one is about it completly breaking the auto attacks maybe if boost was changed to only affect weapon skills (its effects wear off after 1 min or the first weapon skill) and the duration on focus and dodge gets improved should be a good call.

Well that is all for now,i belive that those adjustments togheter with an reversal of the weapon skill damage to their bugged state would probably make the game more healthy on the long run (altough this might mean that the enmity generation mechanics would need to be adjusted once more to acomodate the new damage output from the DDs).

Once again thank you for your time.

Post content:

A) Weapon Skills FTP adjustments 1H, H2H and 2H
B) Reducing power creep
C) Huge buff to RMEAD weapons to give motivation playerbase and small MNK buff.
D) Some Weapon skills will have chan~ to adapt to this: Example Resolution will be 4 hits instead 5 etc. Empy weapons will have 80 Stats instead 50.

The point of this post is try reduce the distance between all the physical DDs. Not more lolDDs.

FTP adjustments:

Relic 1H~WS: 6~8~10
Relic 2H~WS: 3~4~5
Relic H2H~WS: 4.5~6~7.5

Empy 1H~WS: 6~10~15
Empy 2H~WS: 3~5~7.5
Empy H2H~WS: 5~7.5~10

Mythic 1H~WS: 7~9~11
Mythic 2H~WS: 3.5~4.5~5.5
Mythic H2H~WS: 5~6.5~8

Aeonic 1H~WS: 6~10~15
Aeonic 2H~WS: 3~5~7.5
Aeonic H2H~WS: 5~7.5~10

Weaponskills has its fTP transferred across all hits will not exist anymore. Offhand, DA procs will be 1.0. Fotia will act as 10% WSD instead of +1 on FTP. To avoid power creep RMEA weapon-skills stat mods will be reduced 80% to 40%. To take care even more the damage power creep maximun physical limit will be changed to: 1H 2.9~H2H 3.15~2H 3.40~Marksmanship 3.15 and archery 3.05.

Equiping a RMEAD weapon will allow weapon skill damage gear transfer across all the hits on all your weapon-skills similar to the recent ws bug. Non REMAD weapons will not have this effect avaliable. MNk will be allowed to equip grips and Spharai will have 60 accuracy instead 60 attack.

I never seen a character hit close to 99999.

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Originally Posted by chiefhunglo

I never seen a character hit close to 99999.

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You play with scrubs then, lol. Pretty simple to do given proper buffs and/or 2hours

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Originally Posted by chiefhunglo

I never seen a character hit close to 99999.

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There is actually a RoE quest 'to do 99,999 damage'.

If I'm not wrong that RoE includes skillchain damage or magic bursts.

With just a GEO tho you can reach 99999 damage easily with critical damage WSes like Rudra's Storm.

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Originally Posted by chiefhunglo

I never seen a character hit close to 99999.

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You must never play with BLM or SMN then... Both can pretty easily hit 99999.

How would anyone even hit 99999 damage ? I just came back and weapon skills were doing like 2k on my pld and i have excalibur.

By not being on PLD

PLD is pretty much the only job I play.

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Originally Posted by CrAZYVIC

Post content:

A) Weapon Skills FTP adjustments 1H, H2H and 2H
B) Reducing power creep
C) Huge buff to RMEAD weapons to give motivation playerbase and small MNK buff.
D) Some Weapon skills will have chan~ to adapt to this: Example Resolution will be 4 hits instead 5 etc. Empy weapons will have 80 Stats instead 50.

The point of this post is try reduce the distance between all the physical DDs. Not more lolDDs.

FTP adjustments:

Relic 1H~WS: 6~8~10
Relic 2H~WS: 3~4~5
Relic H2H~WS: 4.5~6~7.5

Empy 1H~WS: 6~10~15
Empy 2H~WS: 3~5~7.5
Empy H2H~WS: 5~7.5~10

Mythic 1H~WS: 7~9~11
Mythic 2H~WS: 3.5~4.5~5.5
Mythic H2H~WS: 5~6.5~8

Aeonic 1H~WS: 6~10~15
Aeonic 2H~WS: 3~5~7.5
Aeonic H2H~WS: 5~7.5~10

Weaponskills has its fTP transferred across all hits will not exist anymore. Offhand, DA procs will be 1.0. Fotia will act as 10% WSD instead of +1 on FTP. To avoid power creep RMEA weapon-skills stat mods will be reduced 80% to 40%. To take care even more the damage power creep maximun physical limit will be changed to: 1H 2.9~H2H 3.15~2H 3.40~Marksmanship 3.15 and archery 3.05.

Equiping a RMEAD weapon will allow weapon skill damage gear transfer across all the hits on all your weapon-skills similar to the recent ws bug. Non REMAD weapons will not have this effect avaliable. MNk will be allowed to equip grips and Spharai will have 60 accuracy instead 60 attack.

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while this does sound interresting this would hurt alot casual players or people that are trying to catch up so i am not sure if it is really feasible, but it would defenetly give the ultimate weapons an reason to be called ultimate

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Originally Posted by Zumi

How would anyone even hit 99999 damage ? I just came back and weapon skills were doing like 2k on my pld and i have excalibur.

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This varies from job to job and weapon skill, but one of the main way to achive this is by severely reducing the monster defense , the reason for this is that depending on your weapon this can multiply your damage by 4 per hit on the weapon skill.

The easiest way to see this is with resolution as it replicates the ftp (wich is another multiplier aplied to weapon skills) value across all hits since great sword does reach this x4 multiplier.

The defense multiplier is aplied after the ftp multiplier on each hit of the weapon skill so an 300 dmg sword + str can escalate from an 1,200-2k hits to like 8k hits wich in an weapon skill like resolution is replicated across the 5 hits reaching 40-50k total with ease.

The weapon skill damage propriety is aplied after that defense multiplier wich is why it made resolution and some other already strong weapon skills get really broken during the bug, however it also improved other weak/ unused multi hit weapon skills like evisceration , tornado kick,ranging fists, victory smite,stringing pummel ,insurgency, entropy, cross reaper and many more (many of those started easily reaching 40k damage on imperfect gear).

Getting 99k from an weapon skill alone is still pretty rare outside of magic weapon skill (and by some extent hybrid weapon skills), however by doing multi steps skill chains ending in a double light/ darkness it is extremely common to reach this high skill chain damage as early as in the 3rd step (but you need to have an extremely strong weapon skill going here like leaden salute) and as late as in the 5th (as long as your weapon skill can reach 25k damage if it goes here it can generate an 99.999k light/darkness ,even with the current state of weapon skill damage) if you have enough defense down (and in case of magic ws magic defense down) apllied to your target. Still when weapon skill damage bug was on play some physical weapon skills actually could reach that high on extremely well geared players (i recall seeing an 91k insurgency from an fully upgraded 119 mythic drk).

Just for the sake of refrence this was during the weapon skill damage bug my cousin was pretty much sitting on full nq su3 drk gear and was pretty happy for actually be using sytche for once on drk (and altough this is still ambuscade v2 we where going for VD).

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...9958145de2.jpg

Impressive the highest I seen was 20 to 23k never thought I see a player bust 40k+ hopefully once im done with finishing this garbage Empyrean weapon I can get into endgame and see some serious damage either by me or other players.

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Originally Posted by chiefhunglo

Impressive the highest I seen was 20 to 23k never thought I see a player bust 40k+ hopefully once im done with finishing this garbage Empyrean weapon I can get into endgame and see some serious damage either by me or other players.

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keep in mind that this was done during the weapon skill bug, right now on the same set he reverted back to around 25-28k dmg on a 3k tp cross reaper (and his weapon i belive was an raethic scythe at the time so no rema over there either). Still even with the bug fixed rune fencers, dark knights, warrior, thf, dnc and if we step into magic and hybrid weapon skill territories nin, sam, rng and cor can dish out over 40k wses (hybrid ones can reach 99.999, they work exactly like ifrit flaming crush wich also can hit 99.999 with proper suport and if they are well geared), and no i am not asking for a nerf or anything like that but i am pointing out that altough it was a bug it got some of these wses pretty powered up and it kinda helped to even out the DD game a bit and if they had to adjust something its way easier to adjust like 6 wses then 12-13 jobs individualy + the bug allowed for some weapon skills and weapon diversity instead of forcing a drk to go resolution because its the only ws that can dish out over 40k damage outside gimmick sneak attack/torcleaver that no one cares to use that much anyway because its gated inside an 1 minute cooldown.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

How would anyone even hit 99999 damage ? I just came back and weapon skills were doing like 2k on my pld and i have excalibur.

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You would need a strong Savage Blade set. I've seen PLDs hit 20k Savage Blade. I've also seen PLDs hit over 20k CdC but that PLD was geared with Dark Matter augments.

In any case, 20k damage against a mob that is weak to skillchain closing a 4-5 step skillchain and you could be reaching 99999.

Another option is to fight certain delve NMs with very specific mechanics. If I remember right there is a matamata NM you can fight that you can force to take x64 damage on either magic or physical damage, so your 2k WS would do it.

Never gave thought to those greatsword skills I mean when it came to dmg I only heard sam and smn never drk I might want to lv that job now.

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Originally Posted by DarkValefor

You would need a strong Savage Blade set. I've seen PLDs hit 20k Savage Blade. I've also seen PLDs hit over 20k CdC but that PLD was geared with Dark Matter augments.

In any case, 20k damage against a mob that is weak to skillchain closing a 4-5 step skillchain and you could be reaching 99999.

Another option is to fight certain delve NMs with very specific mechanics. If I remember right there is a matamata NM you can fight that you can force to take x64 damage on either magic or physical damage, so your 2k WS would do it.

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yeah pretty much this it is way easier to build around savage blade then chant on pld.As for skill chain damage in my experience only mobs with specific damage resistences/absorption or mobs with elevated magic defense bonus like sava savionic or abyssdiver reduces skill chain damage (and in this last scenario if you bring a geomancer to malaise then you can actually increase the skill chain damage "back to neutral" wich i found very bizarre but worked for me other spells like increasing magic attack or decresing magic evasion didnt even faze the skill chain damage but malaise did it so i belive that those monsters do have magic defense bonus traits wich can be lowered by malaise in order to reach normal skill chain damage on then).

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Originally Posted by Smokenttp

Since no one dared to bring this up since the fix i figured i should do it myself, but i belive most people agree that the weapon skill damage bug was an happy accident and was wondering if the devs have just fixed it with the mind set that "it was broken" or if they spent some time actualy investigating what was going in the game for the 2 months the issue was present.

In my eyes the bug actually brought out a lot of improvements overall to a very significant number of jobs as well as making a lot of weapon skills that where not used at all ,save for increasing the number of steps an skill chain had, to an state where they are actually contributing for the damage (and yes having extra options is a good thing as stated by our fellow japanese player that helped change the pet enmity category on beastmaster).

Yes i do realize that some weapon skills got extremely powerfull due to the nature on how damage became but i still fail to see this as an issue on a pve balanced game outside the hive mind of players forming a party of meta jobs (wich was present even in the lvl 75 days so we cant say that this is exactly a new issue) and even then in my point of view what this allowed is to multiple people hitting max damage more then once on a multi step skill chain (and there we might have some issues on the tanking side of things).

Other then that i would like to call the attention to another potential benefit of the bug wich was gear progression and the acess to weapon skill damage armors, as you can get some as low as alluvion skirmish aguments (and ambuscade) and work your way to the top from there, without the need of killing something like OU to "grab the one ring that makes victory smite usefull", as this is the major issue on most of the dd jobs nowadays they all work but some require gear that are gated behind monsters that they really have not much ways to deal with by then selfs and are forced to resort to summoner astral conduit zergs in order to get what they need (again nothing wrong in having multiple jobs, and being versatile is an quality that separates a good team player from a bad one, but that should not be the only way to obtain gear and be usefull, this is not to bash summoner zergs either because this is still gated behind an one hour job ability and an fully geared DD on a meta job is actually able to pull off more damage on longer fights, but i would rather have more options to fight that does not require me to have previously beaten what i am trying to beat right now).

Lastly i would like to point out that the amount of shouts that happened for jobs that where not used at all before the bug, i at least saw an massive increase for jobs like mnk, nin , dnc, pup, drg, war, thf, rng wich was to be honest very pleasing to see, even people that previously shouted only for specific jobs started shouting for any kind of damage dealer they could find wich was honestly really awesome and welcome because people felt for once that they where able to be geared for the jobs.

So i would like to ask how the devs aproached this issue and if they are considering reveiwing the weapon skill damage change or if their decision is final and if that is the case what kind of balance they have on the table to bring back those jobs.

Thank you for your time.

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There are many people asking dev keeping WSD glitch but from what I've read, most of them are based on their emotional satisfaction because it feels good to do big damage WS, and it make them kill NM faster. From game design pov, such argument isn't valid.

WSD glitch is a bad thing mainly because it trivialize harder content and made them easier than it should be. Higher level content NM has certain level of HP to keep the difficulty at certain level, since in FFXI the difficulty of a content is related to how long it takes to clear. The slower you clear a content the harder it can be since you will need to deal with more TP moves, accidents, player making mistakes and wipe, or even time out.

So the faster player power creeps, the faster content gets done, making the content life span shorter.

Another pro WSD change argument is about job balance. They argue that certain jobs like MNK gets boosted so it fixes some of the weaker jobs.

I agree that in past 1 year or so, the gear seems to favor 1-2 hit WS, so WSD change seems to "fix" this problem. However if we look into it, WSD change favors WAR, DRK as much as MNK, BLU. So it doesn't really balance anything since strongest DD got even stronger with glitch. The job that remains the same are DD using 1-2 hit WS: So jobs like SAM (Fudo) NIN (Ten) DPS didn't change much since these are 1 hits.

OP claimed "more jobs like mnk, nin , dnc, pup, drg, war, thf, rng got shouted" with WSD change, I think there are no evidence that it's because of WSD glitch. NIN (Ten), THF (rudras) does not benefit much from WSD glitch much since their strongest WS is 1 hit. PUP and RNG belongs to pet/ranged setup not melee, so WSD change or not they are not competing a DD slot with melee job to begin with, nor WSD change would do anything about community's preference on melee setup. WAR was already one of the most popular and strongest DD before change, so they don't need a fix.

The remaining jobs are MNK(VS, tornado kick), DNC (PK), DRG (stardiver) that benefit from it. That's only 3 from OP's list and it's faster/easier to fix these jobs by buffing them individually instead of doing a universal WSD boost for ALL DD jobs like WAR, DRK that's already on top AND got the benefit of WSD glitch.

Finally, OP made an argument about WSD gears being accessible to new players. This seems pretty biased to me, since many of the good WSD gears that made multi hit WS so OP actually came from newer content like Omen bosses (ammo), DM, AF+3 (Omen), Relic +3 (Dyna D), Month's of SoA quests (Ring), or pay 40m on AH (ring). You can get weaker multi hit argument on A.skirmish gears too, so WSD gear isn't more new player friendly than multi hit gear IMO. They are just as expensive/difficult to get for a brand new player.

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Originally Posted by Smokenttp

weapon diversity instead of forcing a drk to go resolution because its the only ws that can dish out over 40k damage outside gimmick sneak attack/torcleaver that no one cares to use that much anyway because its gated inside an 1 minute cooldown.

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It's actually the opposite. DRK's primary WS has been torcleaver for very long time, even without Sneak attack. This is because torcleaver is 1 hit and DRK is swimming in WSD, which pushes torcleaver avg somewhat higher than reso most of the time especially if you include superior SC property. It's the WSD glitch that made resolution stronger and worth using over torcleaver. Since WSD glitch fixed reso shouldn't be primary WS anymore.

The 40k reso damage that you talk about is spike and it can be done without WSD glitch. But when we talk about WS dmg, spike doesn't matter, avg does. So DRK really isn't forced to use resolution all the time.

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Originally Posted by Afania

There are many people asking dev keeping WSD glitch but from what I've read, most of them are based on their emotional satisfaction because it feels good to do big damage WS, and it make them kill NM faster. From game design pov, such argument isn't valid.

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I partialy disagree on that, player feeling is important however the part that i agree on is that it should not cloud an dev judgment as we players do not aways have acess to all information that they have, even then we also may percive things different from a player perspective and that is why i wanted to start this conversation in the first place to trade information with then and try to find the best solution.

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Originally Posted by Afania

WSD glitch is a bad thing mainly because it trivialize harder content and made them easier than it should be. Higher level content NM has certain level of HP to keep the difficulty at certain level, since in FFXI the difficulty of a content is related to how long it takes to clear. The slower you clear a content the harder it can be since you will need to deal with more TP moves, accidents, player making mistakes and wipe, or even time out.

So the faster player power creeps, the faster content gets done, making the content life span shorter.

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I agree on that point of view.

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Originally Posted by Afania

Another pro WSD change argument is about job balance. They argue that certain jobs like MNK gets boosted so it fixes some of the weaker jobs.

I agree that in past 1 year or so, the gear seems to favor 1-2 hit WS, so WSD change seems to "fix" this problem. However if we look into it, WSD change favors WAR, DRK as much as MNK, BLU. So it doesn't really balance anything since strongest DD got even stronger with glitch. The job that remains the same are DD using 1-2 hit WS: So jobs like SAM (Fudo) NIN (Ten) DPS didn't change much since these are 1 hits.

OP claimed "more jobs like mnk, nin , dnc, pup, drg, war, thf, rng got shouted" with WSD change, I think there are no evidence that it's because of WSD glitch. NIN (Ten), THF (rudras) does not benefit much from WSD glitch much since their strongest WS is 1 hit. PUP and RNG belongs to pet/ranged setup not melee, so WSD change or not they are not competing a DD slot with melee job to begin with, nor WSD change would do anything about community's preference on melee setup. WAR was already one of the most popular and strongest DD before change, so they don't need a fix.

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Yeah this might be my biased opinion about it, and i agree there is no garantee that the wsd glitch was the cause of the invites and even a garantee that with the bug in play the player base will still not go to the meta jobs only mentality that exists since well the begining. However as i mentioned the glitch alowed to previous unused weapon skills to be worth something, by all means they can just buff those weapon skills, change ftp values make then replicate,take outdated restrictions like requiscat attack penality off, power up the stat modfier, that is up to the devs and all valid solutions, however they also are working on a small team so that might be an easier solution to that, even tough i agree that if this breaks more things then fixes another alternative should come into play i was just asking for some answers.

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Originally Posted by Afania

The remaining jobs are MNK(VS, tornado kick), DNC (PK), DRG (stardiver) that benefit from it. That's only 3 from OP's list and it's faster/easier to fix these jobs by buffing them individually instead of doing a universal WSD boost for ALL DD jobs like WAR, DRK that's already on top AND got the benefit of WSD glitch.

Finally, OP made an argument about WSD gears being accessible to new players. This seems pretty biased to me, since many of the good WSD gears that made multi hit WS so OP actually came from newer content like Omen bosses (ammo), DM, AF+3 (Omen), Relic +3 (Dyna D), Month's of SoA quests (Ring), or pay 40m on AH (ring). You can get weaker multi hit argument on A.skirmish gears too, so WSD gear isn't more new player friendly than multi hit gear IMO. They are just as expensive/difficult to get for a brand new player.

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There i belive that even those weaker aguments allow an slow climb, yes they do need some work and yes more options are aways welcome however right now those wsd aguments are only good for those 1-2 hit weapon skills mentioned before, specially talking on alluvion armor that means you can have an armor that has both triple attack and weapon skill damage on the same piece wich may be a huge boon for someone starting up (this is assuming the wsd glitch), altough the alluvion armor is a bit expensive on the cash end of the deal as much as the reisenjima armor because random is random, but right now the player can also climb pretty fast by going spark > ambuscade armor and slowly +2ing those sets, once they are ready tough they are not an garantee that this said player can take on reisenjima without more "specialized sets" so there is where the alluvion skirmish armor comes in hand in order to craft their first "specialized set", altough there might be some accuracy issues as alluvion skimish gear isnt exactly on the most accurate side off the spectrum.

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Originally Posted by Afania

It's actually the opposite. DRK's primary WS has been torcleaver for very long time, even without Sneak attack. This is because torcleaver is 1 hit and DRK is swimming in WSD, which pushes torcleaver avg somewhat higher than reso most of the time especially if you include superior SC property. It's the WSD glitch that made resolution stronger and worth using over torcleaver. Since WSD glitch fixed reso shouldn't be primary WS anymore.

The 40k reso damage that you talk about is spike and it can be done without WSD glitch. But when we talk about WS dmg, spike doesn't matter, avg does. So DRK really isn't forced to use resolution all the time.

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i agree on the way the weapon skills behave here but my point still remains that its worthless going for schythe right now or even other great sword weapon skills like ground strike and spining slash both wich does have level 2 proprieties of skill chain and could be used more then "skill chain extenders", again SE could just buff schythes and call it a day.

Isola seriously I doubt you ever did endgame or ever will let the experts talk who knows you might actually learn something with that trap of yours shut.

lul (10 characters)

And I also have 10 characters done see how I made that up that's you.

WSD bug was very good for the game. It made a lot of weaker WS and weapon types(especially scythe!!) feel a lot stronger. The only weapon skills it made overpowered are ones that should be nerfed regardless of the bug existing or not - upheavel, reso, and last stand.

Please consider bringing it back, thank you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

WSD bug was very good for the game. It made a lot of weaker WS and weapon types(especially scythe!!) feel a lot stronger. The only weapon skills it made overpowered are ones that should be nerfed regardless of the bug existing or not - upheavel, reso, and last stand.

Please consider bringing it back, thank you.

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- Last stand isn't OP nor benefit much from WSD glitch, it's 2 hit. Most of the big damage LS damage that we see in game are from mobs that takes extra piercing damage.

- Keeping the glitch then nerfing the stronger WS is more work for balance than just keep it as it is and fixing the weaker WS individually.

- Scythe(Anguta+CR build) was somewhat competitive to GS before Sept update. It's the lack of empy AM3 from Anguta and the lack of light SC property that made GS more useful overall. But if you seriously want to use scythe you can make it work. Anguta + CR build or R15 liberator + insurgency should still be ok post WSD fix I think.