I have been playing this game for about a month and I am worried about all the money (loaned to me by another player) I seemingly wasted on leveling clothcraft to 55. After reading through this subforum I have decided not to waste any more money on it even though I really like the *idea* of crafting.
Everyone is arguing about how synergy ruined crafting and the majority of people seem to believe this and do not like the implications it has on my future. I am just wondering why, and excuse me for being ignorant, synergy even exists. Obviously everyone who put work into crafting (lots more work than I have) is upset with synergy because it ruins all that hard work, and I can already understand that - because after reading about it I feel the same way (and I am only level 55 in one craft - but I *know* what it took to get there and it wasn't easy). It takes so much time farming, or money buying materials, to level up one craft. I am just confused.. maybe someone can help alleviate my frustrations.
I am confused about this 'new crafting' system. I am new and I read old guides to get all the way to 55. Believe me: it is expensive and it takes a lot of time and patience. I can only imagine how tough it is for level 100 crafters who also have other crafts leveled. I am worried that I will not be able to survive in this game as a crafter. I have no problem farming, but I wanted to go farming for materials to dump back into a skill that will pay off eventually if I am determined and work very hard, but it seems like that part of this game no longer exists, and that I am too late in this game to even become a crafter. It seems like.. I don't know how to say it.. Like being an antique. Something nice to look at but has no real practical application in this era, like crafting is anachronistic.
Does anyone know if this will change in the future? I really want to be able to make things alone and not have to rely on friends that I don't even have. I don't care about the big furnace or interrupting other people to help me make something with a system ( i have never even seen but I read what everyone is writing here ) that is laggy and broken. It seems like a stupid idea and it has horrible implications for me as a new player who is already in debt and trying to figure out how to fix it.
Someone also wrote that all new recipes are strictly 'synergy only' and it seems like the whole game is focused around that now. That sucks for me and it is really discouraging. I do not know whether or not to even bother trying to be a crafter because it seems like I will just be like .. a shadow or a ghost or something.
Based on what I read here I should switch to alchemy or to cooking because that is how I can survive, but ugh.. that is like cookie-cutter economics. How unfortunate.
I am just confused about crafting in general. I don't have enough experience or time in this game to know any differently from that which I read on this resource. I understand it's important to farm things in order to survive, but I wanted to invest that time and those items into something marketable and it seems like that isn't even possible anymore. I do not know what to do or if I should stop everything and learn synergy. I read that synergy is boring and painful and broken. I have never experienced it but if SOOO MANY people say it's that bad then why does it even exist? My future as a crafter looks bleak based on what everyone is writing. Is there any hope at all? I am not level 90, I do not have abyssea, I play alone often, and I am just searching for a niche that I can *enjoy*. Does that even exist in this game?
New Player - confused about crafting and so much fighting.
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04-14-2011, 11:33 PMLamerNew Player - confused about crafting and so much fighting.
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04-14-2011, 11:41 PMKarbuncle
Synergy is basically "It". For new armor. But it does require crafts to do. Truthfully my Synergy is 40 and i -hate- leveling crafts. i just leveled it because it was just so easy. but it is "kinda" expensive if you can't find your Fewell In stock...
But thats not to say Crafting isn't profitable. People who generally whine "CRAFTING SUX SYNERGY BAWWWW" Are generally the people who think "Profit" means "3mil+ on a HQ", not "NQ is 10k profit, HQ is 40k, I can make these and they sell fast" deal.
Crafting is still profitable if you pick your item carefully, You can still make a lot of gil, just its not these huge-synths like they used to be. There aren't as many "ZOMG 20MIL EBODY+1 WOOO" synths, any there are are Synergy now.
I can't address all of your points, But if you're upset with how the game plays, Or feel like leveling a craft won't be fun/profit for you, It really won't get much better by level 90, or 100(Crafting). So unless you can learn to like Synergy, Or hold out and hope more Recipes not-synergy related are introduced, I suggest quitting for now, and coming back when the game plays more like you like.
Thats only if you truly feel there is no redeeming quality. -
04-15-2011, 06:40 AMblowfinAlthough I haven't posted in those threads (because they're ridiculous) this isn't true, synergy has not ruined crafting. Crafting was becoming very top heavy and with the introduction of new items, and the level cap raising in particular, there was no way the existing system was going to cope. A lot of people are crying about synergy because they wanted to remain on top of the pile too, suddenly that niche they may have had became slightly compromised, and theyre too stubborn to accept that times have changed.Quote:
Everyone is arguing about how synergy ruined crafting
In short, it's something that you should think about leveling, because it going to be very relevant going forwards. I'd suggest starting by trying to make your woodworking gloves.
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Tanner%27s_Cuffs
It should skill you right up to the high 20's from zero and you don't risk losing your mats like you do with synthesis. So you can intentionally fail the synth and use the cheapest fuel you can to get skill ups.
After that the lathercraft body you can buy with GP can be upgraded too. This will take you into the 40's for synergy.
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Tanner%27s_Smock -
04-15-2011, 08:11 AMRushLynxI dont know what craft you're referring to, but chances are the item you're talking about will not "sell fast"... Most items below 70, with the exception of things like vermillion cloak, don't sell at all anymore... because the people who might actually need them just skip all the levels leeching in abyssea...Quote:
Originally Posted by Karbuncle
The only recipes with even a hope of turning a regular profit are consumables... And that's rediculous. Anything else with a 10k profit you're going to be shooting yourself in the foot with lost inventory space trying to wait for them to sell in the first place in order to turn a decent profit that might be used for anything else... Likewise, most recipes don't even break even anymore with a NQ... The reason high level synths cost so much for the HQ and have "3mil" profits is because you lose a good amount of that profit in NQs...
Also, idk about you, but I didn't spend millions upon millions of gil and year after year leveling a craft so that I could spend a few more years making it all back 10k at a time... Crafting is worth it because it is profitable... or it use to be... Meanwhile we have synergy come along... it takes a little over a mil to level, and people are turning crazy profits on everything... Are you seriously trying to justify that?
As I've said multiple times in these forums... There really is no reason synergy can't have it's own specialty like literally every other craft, instead of just consuming the recipes for things that should rightfully be given to the craft that is listed as the subskill... If it makes cloth armor, and requires cloth skill, why isnt it a clothcraft recipe instead of a synergy recipe? -
04-15-2011, 08:28 AMKarbuncleIt wasn't directed toward any specific craft. I was making a generic purposefully Vague response due to not feeling like having to look up specific items to cite.Quote:
Originally Posted by RushLynx
It wasn't designed to emulate any particular person or craft.
It was an exaggeration of responses I read in other places. -
04-15-2011, 08:34 AMblowfinThere are very good reasons. SE wanted to breathe new life into crafting, and the existing system is already crammed full of synths. Plus without synergy youd just have all the same old crafters monopolizing the new items, without newer players having much of an opportunity to enter the market. Adding more high level items to the crafts would have only really benefited those who are already rich from crafting. Particularly with crafts being so costly to level these days.Quote:
There really is no reason synergy can't have it's own specialty like literally every other craft, instead of just consuming the recipes for things that should rightfully be given to the craft that is listed as the subskill... If it makes cloth armor, and requires cloth skill, why isnt it a clothcraft recipe instead of a synergy recipe?
There are plenty of Synergy exclusive items by the way, and they allow you to level it up without even needing sub crafts. Then theres the incredibly useful transit earrings. -
04-15-2011, 08:35 AMRushLynx
I don't think you should quit though Lamer... there are a lot of things in this game that you can enjoy... And I'm really sorry that you started playing after the shit hit the fan with synergy and abyssea... I started 8 years ago, and I must say if I didn't have the memories of the past and the epic adventures and get that sense of nostalgia from time to time I'd have quit a while ago... This game doesn't even begin to resemble its former greatness these days...
What server are you on? Perhaps I can help you have a little fun with your spare time... -
04-15-2011, 08:43 AMRushLynxI'm not sure what server you're on... But the AH-able equipment made from synergy on my server IS monopolized by veteran crafters... Except now it's worse because so many people dislike synergy and don't want to level it that they have literally no competition whatsoever and can set prices any which way they desire...Quote:
Originally Posted by blowfin
Synergy does not give new players a chance to enter the market, it requires high level crafting skills in a variety of different crafts that new players don't have nearly enough funds for, especially when they can't even sell the items they're skill up on... -
04-15-2011, 08:47 AMblowfinOh right, you're one of those types.Quote:
And I'm really sorry that you started playing after the shit hit the fan with synergy and abyssea... I started 8 years ago, and I must say if I didn't have the memories of the past and the epic adventures and get that sense of nostalgia from time to time I'd have quit a while ago...
Unfortunately Lamer, there are plenty of people around who will tell you the game is broken, that X has gone and ruined their X, and that the glory days are long behind us. The good part about all that is, hardly any of it holds any water and most of it is just personal opinion from those that fear and refuse change. There are various reasons people get upset, from linkshell leaders being upset that people are not interested in their shells that cling onto old ideals, to people being insulted that a 10 year old crafting system got overhauled for the greater good of the game.
If you think that it is an issue and you refuse to level synergy, then you are part of the problem you are describing there. My point with synergy allowing new people entering the market is totally valid by the way. If they choose not to take that opportunity though, it's nobodies fault but their own. If you aren't willing to at least acknowledge that, then I see little point in debating this with you.Quote:
I'm not sure what server you're on... But the AH-able equipment made from synergy on my server IS monopolized by veteran crafters... Except now it's worse because so many people dislike synergy and don't want to level it that they have literally no competition whatsoever and can set prices any which way they desire...
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04-15-2011, 08:54 AMRushLynx
There's no reason that I should be forced to level a craft that I don't enjoy just to prevent people from monopolizing the AH... Especially when all that needs to be done is give those recipes to the people who enjoyed crafting...
I don't level synergy because I play this game to have fun... If it's not fun, why would I waste my time? -
04-15-2011, 08:56 AMblowfinNobody is forcing you to do anything. However, if you're unwilling to level synergy, you have no right to complain about people "monopolizing" the market.Quote:
Originally Posted by RushLynx
Let me give you a real life example. Say you're a dairy farmer and the laws dictate that you must ship out all your milk in glass bottles, the government then changes the legislation to require all milk being shipped out in cartons instead. On moral grounds you refuse to change to the cartons, because you simply don`t like cartons or something. You can no longer sell your milk to anyone because it doesn`t meet government regulations. You go bankrupt. Whose fault is this? -
04-15-2011, 09:01 AMRushLynx
There's plenty of evidence that would suggest that there's truth to the fact that this game isn't as good as it use to be... Mainly just the fact that new players who try to start playing often find themselves quitting because no1 will help them anymore, they cant find party members to xp, and they dont understand what the point of everything is when eventually it all just gets overwritten by abyssea content...
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04-15-2011, 09:16 AMblowfinCalling it evidence is a bit much, there`s certainly opinions out there that the game is worse. Conversely there are plenty of people that are enjoying the new content immensely.Quote:
Mainly just the fact that new players who try to start playing often find themselves quitting because no1 will help them anymore, they cant find party members to xp, and they dont understand what the point of everything is when eventually it all just gets overwritten by abyssea content...
You are correct in that this game can be quite tough for new players. It has always been this way though. If anything, the early stages of the game are several orders of magnitude easier than they used to be. The old game was a masochistic grind fest for a large part, I don`t know how you see that as better. Being forced to party with random people (a lot of them idiots) to grind out 75 pretty painful levels, I don`t know how that was possibly better than the current system.
However, if you are expecting to return to the game and find EXP parties like in the old days and have the crafting system the same as when you left it. Yeah, you`re in for a big shock. Please keep in mind that SE has introduced these things to keep the game healthy and active. -
04-16-2011, 09:18 AMLamer
Ok. I will just continue with my clothcraft until it gets to 100, then focus on synergy and leathercraft - so I can make clothes still. Thanks for all your input and especially that recipe to skill the machine. It seems like there is a lot of debate about this issue but now that I have read more it is clear that you still need to be a crafter to have good synergy. I also read about the update and it seems like I am going to have to have high craft skills, so I am no longer confused. I thought that synergy *replaced* crafting, and that is why I was disturbed. That doesn't seem the case though - the bottom line seems to be that if I want to craft things I will have to learn synergy in addition to a crafting skill, which is no big deal. It just takes longer to feel rewarded.
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04-16-2011, 09:30 AMblowfinNo, synergy is complementing and expanding on the current system, which had run out of room to grow.Quote:
I thought that synergy *replaced* crafting, and that is why I was disturbed. That doesn't seem the case though - the bottom line seems to be that if I want to craft things I will have to learn synergy in addition to a crafting skill, which is no big deal. It just takes longer to feel rewarded.
You don't really need to take your leathercraft to 100 before you start synergy by the way. You're probably fine to start skilling it up now even, it might make a nice break from the leathercrafting. -
04-16-2011, 08:35 PMBhujerba
Synergy didn't ruin crafting , Crafting become outdated with the rest of the old contents, because SE simply stopped adding new things to Crafting and shifted its focus into synergy, but as you know now, Synergy requires 1 or several Crafts leveled to be able to synergies many great items, so Crafting is not entirely useless.
Crafting cap will increase one day, and a whole new items will be added to both Crafting and Synergy, your progress now will never be wasted. I hope you like Synergy tho lol.
Nah, the game is actually much better for new ppl than before, more informative, easier and forgiven with FoV and and increase EXP and the like, its still hard in a way for new ppl because not so many are playing in low levels, so no one is suffering through the content with them like its used to be, which is what made it bearable back in the day.Quote:
There's plenty of evidence that would suggest that there's truth to the fact that this game isn't as good as it use to be
SE cant force ppl to play the game, so the only solution they can come up with, is to make the game more solo friendly at low levels to counter the decrease of population at these levels, and guess what SE is doing just that! SE anticipated these issues and they have been working on them and still, AH/servers merging and all these changes are merely reflecting on the state of the game, it wasn't the cause of population decline, its actually the opposite.
what is that supposed to mean?Quote:
run out of room to grow.
you know they could have just increased the cap of each craft by 10 or something and added these new items or even adding them anywhere between 1-100, nothing stopping them from doing that, but they didn't and made Synergy instead.
meh, I'm not complaining, whats done is done! -
04-19-2011, 02:47 AMblowfinI mean the synthesis system ran out of room to grow. They could have done whatever they liked to expand it, doesn't change the fact that it was top heavy and due for an update.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhujerba
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04-19-2011, 06:45 AMCljader1Quote:
Originally Posted by RushLynx
That sounds like a personal problem... I have no problem with you asking for recipes for tradition crafting, but when you ask for recipes that are to the detriment of synergy I do have a problem with. Remember synergist are crafters and top synergist are veteran crafters. Many people enjoy synergy, and whatever innovation comes to crafting me and other veteran crafters will be all over it. I find it extremely sad that you blame all your problems on synergy but yet you refuse to better yourself. -
04-23-2011, 06:59 AMGlamdring
Crafting or synergy or both (or all 3-4 if the SE change of a 2nd 100 craft happens) is a personal choice. Crafts have their highs and lows, no question. By far the most common craft is cooking, becuase most of us use consumables. a distant 2nd is Alchemy because many of us use meds. 3rd (or maybe tied for second) is probably woodworking, for ammo mostly and shehei. The other crafts have largely died due to a lack of demand for lower level crafted gear. They are primarily useful to make AF materials for the last 5 jobs added to the game as near as I can tell; they may get a boost making items for relic/equipment upgrades with the coming changes. Fishing always was treated seperately and is basically just an adjunct to cooking.
Synergy is a unique system in its own right. 1st, you can't lose your materials, a huge bonus vs. say blowing up platinum ingots. 2nd, it allows you to craft items from other crafts even if your skill is non-existent just by partying with a friend. It is arguably cheaper than crafting. It allows much more augmentation than the base crafts do of existing gear, although I never see anyone really using Evolith. It is also incredibly easy to level, via fail synth. Lastly, yields of HQ seem to be more common, but even normal synths of consumables the NQ generally have higher yields (look at the synthesis recipies for beast jugs). With all of that, while you may not need any crafting skill somebody better have some if you want to synergize.
It is to be hoped that some of the changes SE has coming down the pipe provide a rebirth to crafting. Even cooking has taken a hit, with about half the players I see not even using food with all the Atma out there. My craft is leather, it is almost useless in the current game. There are also so many drops from end-game mobs that few need to buy anything, and quested/mission rewards are usually better than anything a crafter-or even a synergyst-can make in terms of gear. You can't rely on the low-level market either with players spamming to 30 and then leeching to 90 as they don't regear until endgame and that stuff is free. Only ammo, food and ninja tools (really only shehei, the stealth stuff, and the universal) are truly a steady market, and ammo is suffering with rangers getting so little Aby love. Bullets are a possibility, but Cor is getting possibly less love than ranger. Most rangers, cors and ninja usually level crafts for their own consumables anyway.
A few things can be done to fix this, one of which will hit the noobs hard.
1st: no skills at all can be gained if the gap between what prey can give and the level cap exceeds 25. So if you are 90, but with job level 22 skills you will be forced to sync to 27 or lower to gain skill, and consumables are the best way to accomplish that at a decent rate. Most skill bonuses are removed/nerfed from armor when you sync so lower level gear may function better. Side benefit, maybe you'll level WITH skills to aby levels, making you useful for SOMETHING besides back-up healing, and a market for mid-level spells will open back up for farmer-types.
2nd. New content added outside Aby. No atma means most players will go back to using the consumables, and some jobs that don't get love in Aby will see use, meaning things like Bullets will get a new life.
3rd. Increase the penalty for lacking skill. Varies by skill, obviously. Since consumables can boost skills they may be used to minimize the penalty, even in Abyssea.
4th. New recipies at high level in both crafting and synergy that yield items comparable to the quality of dark-ring as an example.
5th. Raise NPC sales prices for crafted items. If it cost more to buy an item from the NPC you will see the crafter if you can. At the same time, if the crafter can sell items-even low level synths-for decent ammounts maybe they'll take the time to craft, if only to use up random drops. But if they are crafting anyway, they might chance 1-2 items on the AH.
6th. The FFXI equivalent of a "rust monster" a rare critter that can actually degrade/destroy gear -
04-30-2011, 04:53 PMMilotheshort
this post is already TL: DR.
if you really want to craft, go to abyssea, get curor, buy armor from visions zones, npc. Take new found monies go to ah, buy crap, throw it together. TBH this is no different than 7 yrs ago when ppl would whine on forums on how they couldn't make money. Synergy didn't ruin anything, its the same belly aching that existed 7 yrs ago. Synergy actually requires some moderate interaction unlike mat burning. Honestly the original system is still 100x better than the bot crafting on WoW. So shut up already ur making my head hurt. What i used to tell newbies on crafting is lvl all them to 60 first. (ur gonna want them as subs ne ways) then take ur favorite to 100. by focusing in on a craft u know nothing about, in a game ur new to ur causing yourself problems ahead of time (b4 it even gets hard). As for the person that claims it requires a million gil to get synergy up >.>. Wow just wow. I think i spent a whopping 300k gil (most on fewell), i know its a real bank buster with the 6 billion curor everyone has. *Head Desk* -
05-10-2011, 03:02 AMWenceslao
crafting is about fun, not just money, u guys all over says synergy rulz, crafters are no more than monopilizing people, greedy ones, they want to make tons of gils in little time, just stop acusing us of it, and think a second about our economy:
Since abyss came, all players has lots of cruor on his/her inventory that is worth gil, (just buy a hand piece por like 3k cruor, go jeuno and sell it for 6.5k gil aprox), so every player lvl30+ should have enough money to spend, the problem with oldschool crafters is not just money, the problem is we are lefting behind just to favor 1 crafting style, sorry but not all players likes synergy, u guys should understand that, even with old crafts many players disliked and liked a particular craft, it was a life for some players, it was a hobby to others, but it makes no sense to craft something useless, many clothcrafters has nothing worth to make as no one is using low lvl clothes and the high level ones are just useless in comparison with new equipment, now, SE comes with augments to sets, and what it does, give it all to synergy, why not distribute among all crafts, for example the Zenith set should be able to augment with clothcraft, or kaiser set with smithing or goldsmithing, i mean, its ok to have synergy if some or many people actually like it, but this a MMORPG and is meant to be funny and enjoyable for all, and thus SE should revise some old recipes for the other crafts or create new ones that can if not exceed at least compete with the synergy ones or the abyss ones...