Time to upgrade DNC!

Dev. Team,

It's been years since DNC has received anything worthwhile. I believe it's time the job should get abilities like Rousing Samba, Sensual Dance, Melancholy Jig, Thorned Stance (treated like dread spikes), any other good Waltz, Sambas, Jigs, and Steps. I hope this job can be looked into for upgrades as soon as possible. Looking forward to your response. Thanks!

:D

*bump* Would like to see some responses to this thread.

No CM for english forums, post in jp with google translate.

On topic:

Yes, DNC is pretty meh and fills literally no unique niche and has no situational use. It's entire combat mechanics go against the flow of the current game. It's main core features are either super weak/don't fit the high haste high tp gain the current game has(steps), are all completely irrelevant and almost never useful(sambas, only useful if using fencer set ups..lol?) or are far too weak to compete against the rest of the games healers(waltz tp costs and cooldowns are FAR too long compared to any other healer). When a /whm is a better healer than DNC main by a magnitude of over 2, you know there's a huge issue.

Oh also, saber dance shouldn't disable sambas when BLU RDM /WHM can cure people for 1k+ with zero drawbacks besides 2-3 attack rounds of TP loss.

Nothing about DNC's design makes sense in the current state of FFXI. It needs to be completely revamped, which sadly, won't happen.

This doesn't mean you can't play and beat things with DNC, it still does fantastic damage, it's just not good at being an actual dancer. It's more of a monk with daggers at this point.

DNC is awesome ^^! Another update to PK would be appreciated or adding tier 4 damaging Flourishes. Thank you for all you do SE!

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

No CM for english forums, post in jp with google translate.

On topic:

Yes, DNC is pretty meh and fills literally no unique niche and has no situational use. It's entire combat mechanics go against the flow of the current game. It's main core features are either super weak/don't fit the high haste high tp gain the current game has(steps), are all completely irrelevant and almost never useful(sambas, only useful if using fencer set ups..lol?) or are far too weak to compete against the rest of the games healers(waltz tp costs and cooldowns are FAR too long compared to any other healer). When a /whm is a better healer than DNC main by a magnitude of over 2, you know there's a huge issue.

Oh also, saber dance shouldn't disable sambas when BLU RDM /WHM can cure people for 1k+ with zero drawbacks besides 2-3 attack rounds of TP loss.

Nothing about DNC's design makes sense in the current state of FFXI. It needs to be completely revamped, which sadly, won't happen.

This doesn't mean you can't play and beat things with DNC, it still does fantastic damage, it's just not good at being an actual dancer. It's more of a monk with daggers at this point.

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I feel you're kinda exaggerating, lol. I wouldn't say DNC mechanic has serious design problems. Not being absolute optimal in every situation =/= bad design. A complete revamp for jobs that don't shine in every situation is wasting resources in games like FFXI IMO.

By your standard DRG pet mechanics, MNK HP/subtle blow niche, RDM's enfeebling magic are all horrible designs that needs complete revamp because they are not optimal in every situations, and the list goes on and it'll never end with job fixing.

IMO for games like FFXI with variety of setup, situation and content, any job that's functional in most of the situation and very optimal in a few situation is good enough. Most jobs are fine.

There's niche uses for all of those things and zero for dancer. That's why the job is in a very weird state.

TBH they should've nerfed frailty to the ground when they adjusted the macc related things for geo in december of last year. DNC would be helpful for fights lasting at least like 2 or 3 minutes(Not sure what the math is for max optimal efficiency) to keep box step 10/10 on with a frailty from a geo if frailty wasn't so overwhelmingly powerful compared to ANY other defense down in the game

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Yes, DNC is pretty meh and fills literally no unique niche and has no situational use. It's entire combat mechanics go against the flow of the current game.

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You are right, and as I'm sure you are aware, DNC arrived back in 2008~ with WOTG, and DNC was offered as the first true solo job.

DNC was intended to allow true solo play, ie. without Bst charm-pets, and without bloody bolts etc.

I believe DNC was partly a response to years of people complaining about "only Bst can solo FFXI."

Also DNC was integral in WOTG Campaign Battle era, where the enemy damage output was truly insane, and it was very difficult to stay alive in solo or low-man Campaign groups. DNC did fix that problem, provided you had the patience to spam back-to-back CW and just chip away at mobs for hours.

And DNC was a huge success story in 2008, everyone was playing it and enjoying it, and people were soloing content that they had never dreamed of soloing. "The best job ever!" was a phrase I heard from some of the most veteran players. In 2008 all you could see was Samba lights illuminating the night in all the beautiful areas of Old Vana'diel.

But now, in the age of Trusts etc., you are totally correct in saying that the unique *Dancer Can Solo Stuff* job perk is totally lost, and that was the main job perk for Dancer, TP-TO-CURES, it was never about skillchain bonuses or anything else. It was all about that TP-TO-CURES lol.

I played Dancer hard during the campaign years, because it was such a nice change from playing BST with the charm and kite, finally with Dancer I could just solo the enemy face to face, just stand my ground and fight the mob solo, instead of running away onto hill-tops and pinning mobs on trees.

I built Dancer Magian daggers with PDT MDB CHR+ DEX+ Attack Multiple Times, built around 12 daggers in total. I loved playing Dancer in all kinds of situations from 2008 onwards, until ilvl and Trust arrived. Now I never play it anymore, even though I can understand why other people still love playing the job for their own personal reasons.

I am not too sure why a jobs past determines the jobs current state or future. o.O In DNC's current state it is competitive for minimal buff situations similar to BLU. The part it need help to stay in the game (figuratively speaking) is a boost in high buff DPS :> DNC suffers from very low ATT and it especially shows when so many of the commonly use buffs are % based in my LS.

I might add DNC has zero survivability when it comes to magic damage too. Interference or a well timed nuke in dynamu (in full DT + high MEVA) can still two shot while my peers fair much better. :<

DNC doesn't compete for minimal buff situations, because it's can't possibly compete with the juggernaut that is bluemage in those situations.

DPS is the last thing DNC needs, it needs to be better at supporting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

DNC doesn't compete for minimal buff situations, because it's can't possibly compete with the juggernaut that is bluemage in those situations.

DPS is the last thing DNC needs, it needs to be better at supporting.

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I believe your opinion and point of view are understood, as in your prior comments tend to repeat what your initial response stated in more detail; others have since stated their opinion in response to yours... I shall do the same--I feel that DNC is in a fine spot. Any job can perform within the current game meta as well as any other--tweaks and fine tunes to current abilities and traits will also lead to a more solid game play experience for said job...regardless of job... DNC speaks for itself in what it can bring both in solo play as well as in group oriented content even--and yes, even in today's Ambuscade and Dynamis-D environments. So any new players reading these forums I would suggest the take-away is this: Should you feel the need to level DNC because it appeals to you, DO SO. Just know that there is NO job in FFXI that can DO everything; even as powerful as BLU is, it isn't ideal in every single situation--same goes for PLD, COR, BRD, BST, SMN etc.

So if pro-players who devote their time to DNC see a need to tweak the job or request some slight adjustments to smooth game play out... I applaud and encourage it. I hope SE is listening.

I like the idea of adding new job abilities to DNC but i disagree that the job is pretty meh.

DNC is pretty strong in an ideal party setup, it is actually worse in a buffless situation.

I think the problem with DNC right now is the lack of a Fusion WS since what makes DNC strong is its skillchain bonus. I don't think it is a weak job but it's also situational. If your party is just going to spam WSes DNC is losing a lot of danage from not skillchaining.

DNC also has the ability to force a weapon skill to crit which is surprisingly good for Rudra's Storm. I don't think DNC right now is in a bad position but I would definitely appreciate new abilities.

Honestly Dnc is probably the highest damage 1H job, the problem is, talking damage in those situations, 2H jobs just blow all the 1H jobs away, and Dnc just doesn't have buff potential Blu or Cor have that it might excel in that might give it a slot, I think the single best thing you could do for Dnc (and this isn't fun) is to remove the animation delay for at the very least steps (like they did with Pup maneuvers) which would allow them to actually use steps without tanking their DPS into the ground.

Saber Dance and Fan Dance are what gives Dnc it's niche usefulness at the moment, and while I understand it sucks to be unable to waltz with Saber up there probably should be some sort of tradeoff here for the power of Saber dance at least. Though I wouldn't mind some sort of bump in it's utility to be sure, like making healing waltz unable to be paralyzed, or something, in all honesty all melees (IMO) are too negatively impacted by debuffs too often (which would be nice if something could be done about that in general), and Dnc is one of those who gets it the worst in that regard.

What Dancer really needs right now:

-The ability to cap its JA haste (Haste Samba II can give 25 JA Haste for example, or even fix the original one to give 25)
-The ability to increase its horrible attack % or at least STR % (can easily add this to Saber Dance).
-Dazes should be faster to cap, as a Dancer main it makes sense that each step gives 2 levels to Daze and 3 with Presto instead of 1 and 2 (waiting 30 s on Presto -is counterproductive when you can spam 6 steps in that window).
-Really no point whatsoever in current game for Saber/Fan to have decay... I mean fights take what 3-7 min tops? (at least start decay past 3 min window)
-Healing Waltz should be AoE or at least lower the timer of Contradance to 15-30s instead of 5 min...
-An AoE Raise/Reraise Dance can be something special to add to Dancer.
-Wild Flourish needs to gain access to higher tier skill chains.. (you can increase steps needed for higher tiers).
-Regain trait given when you use Grand Pas.

DNC doesn't need damage, it needs utility and support.

Contradance should cost finishing moves(tier 1, so ~30 second cooldown)

Fan dance should reduce damage done, lower waltz timer, increase waltz potency, etc.

Saber dance should give something relevant, it's double attack is incredibly weak at this stage of the game. I'd rather it buff support somehow, DNC doesn't need more damage.

Haste samba absolutely >>NEEDS<< to give 15% for a DNC main. Haste2 + MG caps haste, haste2 + 1 march(any) caps haste, but haste samba + haste2 is not enough to cap delay for basically anyone.

Frailty should be nerfed to the ground(geo is 0% interactive/fun in melee set ups anyways - make it a mage set up buffer only please)

It would be great, if SE modified steps values as follows:

1. Box Step Before, 3% + 2% x(Step level) with Max of -23% Defense
2. Box Step After, 3% + 3% x(Step level) with Max of -33% Defense

1. Feather Step Before, **4% + 1% x (Step level) with Max of -14% Critical Evasion
2. Feather Step After, **4% + 2% x (Step level) with Max of -28% Critical Evasion

1. Quickstep Before, 4 x (Step level + 1) with Max of -44 Evasion
2. Quickstep After, 10 x (Step level + 1) with Max of -111 Evasion

1. Stutter Step Before, 3 x (Step level) with Max of -30 Magic Evasion
2. Stutter Step After, 5 x (Step level) with Max of -50 Magic Evasion

** Using Empy Hands +1
And the cherry on top would be, switching Stutter Step from MEVA to MDB or STP.