SU4

With the addition of this "SU4" will it really require a finished Escu? Thats literally going to lock out 99% of the players from even attempting to synth it and its going to sound like bitching and quite frankly I like griping but its just going to further stop people who havent botted their shields or already had a couple of capped gil mules laying around from doing them. Theres already too much competition imo and I cant farm efficiently with all the people clogging camps #gripeover

The only way to keep people playing is make the things more and more and more irritating to get.

You didn't seriously think they were going to not add things behind the crafting shields did you. I promise you it will only get worse from here.

Every. Single. Crafted Item. Will require this shield, from now on.

What I would suggest (although it is probably too late) is that the 5 pieces for each job be made from 5 different crafts.
For example:
PLD head made from Smithing, but SMN head made from Bonecraft
PLD body made from Alchemy, and SMN body from Clothcraft
PLD hands made from Clothcraft, and SMN hands from Goldsmithing
PLD legs made from Leathercraft, and SMN legs from Woodworking
PLD feet made from Woodworking, and SMN feet from Smithing.... etc... each job's pieces from different crafts, and assorting distributed so no one craft dominates a body slot.

This would stop certain crafts from dominating the new items and certain jobs, and leave other crafts S.O.L. for making stuff.

There has been a terrible history that goldsmithing, smith, and bone have been given the majority of greatest wanted items, but if they spread out each job over different crafts, and gave other less used crafts (leather, wood, alchemy) more of the soon-to-be wanted items, then goldsmithers won't be domineering the markets as they have been since 2004.
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... just an idea....

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Originally Posted by Halley

The only way to keep people playing is make the things more and more and more irritating to get.

You didn't seriously think they were going to not add things behind the crafting shields did you. I promise you it will only get worse from here.

Every. Single. Crafted Item. Will require this shield, from now on.

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We know already that NOT "Every. Single. Crafted Item." will require the shields/KIs in order to synth. There have already been recipes added since the shields/KIs were that did not require them, and I don't see them going 100% lock-down on us. I think it IS reasonable to expect that all of the highest end, best, most powerful, etc. synthesized gear will though since the devs want to instill value/worth into escutcheons beyond the stats on them.

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Originally Posted by Dzspdref

What I would suggest (although it is probably too late) is that the 5 pieces for each job be made from 5 different crafts.
For example:
PLD head made from Smithing, but SMN head made from Bonecraft
PLD body made from Alchemy, and SMN body from Clothcraft
PLD hands made from Clothcraft, and SMN hands from Goldsmithing
PLD legs made from Leathercraft, and SMN legs from Woodworking
PLD feet made from Woodworking, and SMN feet from Smithing.... etc... each job's pieces from different crafts, and assorting distributed so no one craft dominates a body slot.

This would stop certain crafts from dominating the new items and certain jobs, and leave other crafts S.O.L. for making stuff.

There has been a terrible history that goldsmithing, smith, and bone have been given the majority of greatest wanted items, but if they spread out each job over different crafts, and gave other less used crafts (leather, wood, alchemy) more of the soon-to-be wanted items, then goldsmithers won't be domineering the markets as they have been since 2004.
.
... just an idea....

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The only recipes that have been mentioned so far in relation to Jeuno[D] are weapons. There are no mentions of any armor synths, so I'm a bit confused what you are talking about here.. :?

Assuming you are talking about crafting in general, they already distributed the Su3 sets among all of the durable crafts, which is enough. The only unfairness there is that certain sets suck {Goblin}{back}{side} and are inherently going to be worth less than other sets from day1, but hey, that's less of a crafting issue and more of a gear balance one. Personally, I say no thank you to the idea of randomly shuffling everyone's gear around. Things are already complicated enough without intentionally adding more confusion to the mix. It also would do absolutely nothing to address the gear imbalance that frequently occurs and partially dictates prices. Wouldn't mind if they spread out accessories more across the board instead of defaulting to GS all the time tho. Accessories would be the actual reason for the perceived domination of GS as a craft since it has always had a bit of a stranglehold on the ear/ring slots.

I also noticed the glaring omission of Cooking from your list above, which would still leave a craft S.O.L. for making stuff... Which is arguably the ONLY craft that desperately needs some form of big money recipes (probably durables,) due to the design of the craft itself.

You just insist on arguing semantics.

Every. single. synth. will require it. period. If the synth has no value. it doesnt matter what it takes to do.

My point was to say that one craft shouldn't have ALL the pieces for a job, but that the five separate pieces should be made by five separate crafts, i.e. to get more fairness to all crafters, instead of one crafter job getting all the business. And make the items also have "set bonuses", so getting more than one piece (preferably need all 5 pieces), for that set bonus to activate.
For example: how many times do you see people /sh for Rao (MNK/SAM/NIN/PUP) cursed voodoo items? I have yet to see one. But I see them for PLD, SMN, BLM, BLU, COR, RNG, quite often enough. So Woodworking gets zero business.
Yes I know they have only mentioned weapons, but this is "planning suggestively ahead" for ideas, to make the fairness to a lot more crafters, not just "defaulting to GS" all the time.
- * And to note on the cooking side, one of the worst things they did to cooking was making a bunch of the foods available in the Curio Moogles. This also killed off the the need to craft Ninja Tools by adding toolbags there. Plus there were very few "equipment" that Cooking actually made except for some of the BST jugs that can I think of off top of my head.
- Possible solution would be to make materials that you need to make via Cooking that are then used by the crafters to make the newer gears, such as this idea:
"Defiant Sweat Extract": Cooking (T4 Shield required): Defiant Sweat, Vitriol, Dragon's Blood, Water crystal;
...then this is used as an ingredient to make newer gear. Just an option.

I really do not like the idea of splitting up sets among crafts. It really is adding complexity for no actual benefit. I have a 110+ WW, and I am aware of the lack of demand for Rao. That has more to do with how good the set is for the jobs that can use it, combined with how popular the jobs are with players, and then compared to whatever other options exist currently. Am I bitter about it? No. I knew from precedent to expect that. Cursed gear is also on the downturn anyway due to a combination of stat creep on new gear + escutcheons existing and crashing prices for any item they want to crash, so it's not actually that huge a loss for us. Su3 gear is still worth making I think and should be in higher demand that cursed stuff anyway. If you want to gripe about WW, you should be aiming at stuff like the silly new ammo which is a loss even if you did nothing but constantly HQ3... >_<;;

Cooking can make all craftable BST jugs, and gets to double dip on skills and increase yield and HQ rate by doing synergy versions instead of synthesis if they want. ^^ (I'm a synergist and always looking for cooks who want to team up for profit.) Funny thing about Curio Moogle.. I regularly resell food from him on AH for ~3x the cost, (it's how I keep my many many mules funded in fact,) so it should be possible to make a profit even off those goods. The problem there is.. it's Cooking. Even if you are making a 300% profit on something, the amount of gil per sale is going to end up much lower than a 50% margin on durable goods. :/ This is why I've never taken up Cooking myself, and I feel bad for those who love the craft.

Please, Altana, no. ._.;; No more overloading uses on existing mats. We do not need any more recipes which depend on the same Vagary or Delve mats since we have too many uses for them already. Why not use something like eschan fish instead? More recipes for little used mats regardless of being sourced from non-endgame content please. Things like Ruszor Meat and Orobon Meat are only used in 1x synth recipe total, while other items like Smilodon Liver are used in none at all. There are still options for materials for new recipes without continuing to overload the same stupid Vagary/Delve items.

I'm more upset that the cheaters will have another avenue to make gil off their ill gotten T4 Shields. I've reported people using auto farming programs, running the same route constantly down to the PIXEL for hours on end and yet they are still here. No HUMAN can manually run the EXACT same routes, especially for hours on end with ZERO breaks.

If SE is going to start allowing 3rd party use, which is what they are by turning a blind eye to this kind of cheating, they need to make a statement and change the terms of service to make it a level playing field for all players.

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Originally Posted by VoiceMemo

If SE is going to start allowing 3rd party use, which is what they are by turning a blind eye to this kind of cheating, they need to make a statement and change the terms of service to make it a level playing field for all players.

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It takes time to investigate each player.... SE generally ban in waves..
We have seen a lot of account banning as of late. Equal/if not more to that of years ago.

I believe SE need to stamp down on it, before it gets completely out of hand. That and implement chat moderators on [Asuras] /yell system, or at least increase delay time between /yell.

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Originally Posted by Sirmarki

It takes time to investigate each player.... SE generally ban in waves..
We have seen a lot of account banning as of late. Equal/if not more to that of years ago.

I believe SE need to stamp down on it, before it gets completely out of hand. That and implement chat moderators on [Asuras] /yell system, or at least increase delay time between /yell.

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I'm betting that they will wait to do any bannings until after the upcoming adjustment goes live. Step by step after all. Far fewer number of accounts get banned, but equal/larger amounts of gil gets removed each time compared to old ban waves. Just imagine how long it will take for any of these new weapons will show up once all the botted shields go poof on the less populated servers tho. lol

Small nitpick that makes my OCD itch that I should've brought up earlier.. There is nothing as of yet to indicate that the new gear will actually be Su4. It feels unlikely for it to be Su4 since that would be the kind of thing they normally crow about in the update announcements, and not a peep so far (even on JP side,) about Su4 incoming... My 2 gil's on Su3 atm, but we'll find out in about a week when the update notes go up (since Su4 would require a new Gift being added to each job, and that would definitely be in the notes.)

I was posing an example with the Defiant Sweat, but any other ingredients can be used too, as long as it makes cooking as its main to be able to make them.

Another point I have to ask, is how one person on our server (name withheld atm on Asura) has already made FOUR of these new completed craft shields (one on main and three on mules), and had them done so fast? Even taking into consideration the TIME it takes to farm and synth the spheres, and then synth the Apex crystal.... still seems as if they did something "fishy" to do it? I cannot get my head around it atm.

And splitting the gear pieces per job up betwixt the different crafts would make it so that one craft AGAIN does not dominate the job-gear field. We all know how SE loves Goldsmithing, and just plain tired of the rest of us getting the short end of the stick on that.

And I do the same thing with Curio Moogle, buying & reselling for profits. I don't have any pity for people too lazy to spend 30 seconds to save themselves 50k gil. I will gladly take advantage of their ineptitude and/or laziness.

Vagary/Delve mats shouldn't even be used as examples anymore given how overtaxed their supplies are already. It's also not a good idea to focus on processing mats for other crafters to use. Adding a mandatory middleman would do little to help the middleman since they'd not make that much off the mats, while the extra cost would raise costs for the crafters actually using the processed mats, which gets passed on to consumers or not made at all. :/ Yes, something would be better than nothing, but there are still buffs that could be used for food that haven't ever been used yet, and they could always shoehorn actual equipment synths in. I would not complain about a Bacon Shield. XD

I know who you are talking about, and from what I understand, he's multiboxing his way thru, and doing NOTHING but working on the shields. It is legit play to have one char killing and passing on loot while another lots and synths. You still have to sit there and do all the craftchaining yourself, which is what I'm most impressed about w/ the multiple shields. That would be some mindnumbing months to go thru.. And not that I know what methods he's actually using, but I seriously doubt that there's anything in the TOS against using programmable input devices with autofire options. :x Don't think there'd be any way to enforce a "no gaming keyboards/mice" rule anyway. It's quite possible to game the system without actually cheating, breaking any rules or doing anything that requires much effort, and it doesn't take much imagination to think of them.

Splitting pieces up and shuffling them around could, and most likely would, still result in one craft or another ending up with better pieces which would have higher demand > prices. Even though I personally got shafted by it, I prefer the way they did Su3. Shuffle up the sets themselves so they are not made by the obvious crafts. Smithing makes the caster set for example, which would appearance-wise and traditionally be made by clothcraft. Things will balance out a bit armor-wise this way.

Problem with this specific topic tho is that we are talking about weapons. Weapons are a bit trickier to logically shuffle around. Most weapons in-game are metal based, which is why goldsmithing/smithing have always gotten the lion's share of the recipes for them. It doesn't seem very intuitive for clothcrafting to make a sword for example. :/ I'd have zero problems with breaking tradition at this point though. lol (Especially if some extra love gets sent LC's way. <,<)

I don't know if you've ever looked, but the cost for GS shield is insanely higher than other crafts too due to kit mats... High enough that my GS mule went to bottom of the list priority-wise when I looked them up. I'm looking at ~5x the gil cost as what my leathercraft kits cost to make. GS may make a mint off rings/earrings, but it tends to pay thru the nose to reach similar progress points when compared to most other crafts.

What I assume the general fustration is(which is basically just my gripes) is that yes the crafter shields are busted and they take alot of time and money yes but people having cheated to finish the shields to make tons of gil and then in turn some of the people selling the gil for real money isnt really cool to me or probably to the majority of the people who arent making actual money off a 12.95 monthly payment. If youre doing it legit good for you thats great keep on keeping on, but I'm not SE so i dont have a projected number on how many finished shields they think they'd have by the time the set out this SU4 update and at the end of the day it wont matter, just make money selling mats to the shield owners and buy it off of them or dont.

I was mainly just salty cause no finished shield pls