Feedback on september's Ambuscade

Hi, I have some feedback for this ambu.

I recently read in the post by Matsui that the ambu reward system was adjusted to help congestion(which doesn't even exist on my server). I like getting more points per run, however, this months ambuscade volume1 has mobs that can SPAM perfect dodge. This mechanic adds no depth to the fight, it adds nothing interesting, it adds no difficulty. It simply prolongs the fight - which INCREASES congestion. I kill the adds in a single 3 step SC, but sometimes they'll spam PD which prolongs the fight by about 3x the amount of time it should take.

Please never add monsters that can SPAM invincible or perfect dodge to an ambuscade again. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Hi, I have some feedback for this ambu.

I recently read in the post by Matsui that the ambu reward system was adjusted to help congestion(which doesn't even exist on my server). I like getting more points per run, however, this months ambuscade volume1 has mobs that can SPAM perfect dodge. This mechanic adds no depth to the fight, it adds nothing interesting, it adds no difficulty. It simply prolongs the fight - which INCREASES congestion. I kill the adds in a single 3 step SC, but sometimes they'll spam PD which prolongs the fight by about 3x the amount of time it should take.

Please never add monsters that can SPAM invincible or perfect dodge to an ambuscade again. Thank you.

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The only reason I can think of adding a mechanic like that is to maybe have people bring magic users as well??? I haven't done Ambuscade this month yet, so I can't really tell much about it. Was the change to the points only for Vol. 1?

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Originally Posted by Zeargi

The only reason I can think of adding a mechanic like that is to maybe have people bring magic users as well??? I haven't done Ambuscade this month yet, so I can't really tell much about it. Was the change to the points only for Vol. 1?

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Only V1 was affected by the reward/HP increases. Easy+ were doubled/tripled based on difficulty, think they had the new values in the update notes.

I'm pretty sure I have seen the boss use PD while PD was active (it might have used it the instant that it wore off though,) so the complaint is definitely valid. ><;; It is not fun by any means to be unable to touch the target for large swaths of time.

I tried it with a MB setup the day it went live and while it technically works, it is much slower than simple meleeing due to the anti-(support job/class | GEO/BRD/COR) mechanic.

You know you have overpowered junk when the developers start adding mobs that are very highly resistant and/or immune to them.

Oi.

I'm glad I'm currently taking a break from the game... perhaps next month they'll do something more reasonable.

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Originally Posted by Aysha

You know you have overpowered junk when the developers start adding mobs that are very highly resistant and/or immune to them.

Oi.

I'm glad I'm currently taking a break from the game... perhaps next month they'll do something more reasonable.

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It's actually still mostly reasonable. I've been getting ~5.5min clear times w/ a basic 5xDD+whm setup on V1E, which gives 600hm/400gal (which can be tripled by a seal,) which is more than 2x V2VD runs (which can't be done in less than 5.5min,) so it's actually faster than most months prior. If there was no PD mechanic, we'd have it down to ~2-3min per run, which would somewhat negate the purpose of the update. XD

Should mention that our setup is DRK DRK WHM / BLU BLU + random DD from ls :3 Should be even faster than what we see if there are no multiboxers. lol

I've heard of V1VD clears, but 20-25min fights.. If you use a seal though, it's over 10k hm PER FIGHT, which means you can be done w/ total hm in less than an hour per month now, assuming you can handle actual cl139 content.

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Originally Posted by Zeargi

The only reason I can think of adding a mechanic like that is to maybe have people bring magic users as well???

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Psh more like rngs

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Originally Posted by Urmom

Psh more like rngs

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I don't know any serious RNG to see how well they perform. :( Do they do well this month?

6 pet job on v1 easy is a very quick clear, then go to assault, makes very fast points

Normal VD1 is 5-10m(depending on PD RNG). Also we all have fun playing the game since we aren't on pet jobs.

Perfect dodge is still a problem, it literally double or triples the amount of time per run which in turn causes more congestion on the one server it exists on.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Normal VD1 is 5-10m(depending on PD RNG). Also we all have fun playing the game since we aren't on pet jobs.

Perfect dodge is still a problem, it literally double or triples the amount of time per run which in turn causes more congestion on the one server it exists on.

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Can do just as well w/ a full melee setup as a pet job setup in V1E. If a 3box+2box party of DRK DRK BLU BLU WHM + random DD can do in ~5.5min reliably, then party comp is a near non-issue. Same comp should work on N+, but we have multibox issues with that many adds and bombs kept going off because of loltargeting. Gets a bit frazzling to be hopping between laptops/keyboards as frequently as is required at that point.

At least the JP players are complaining about the bomb name blinking in/out and going untargetable too. ^^;;

The congestion thing actually IS better now on Asura. According to a recent dev statement, it seems that there was some sort of system limitation holding back how fast groups could enter instances, so instances were sitting around empty while players were in the queue before. >_>;;

So long as at least V1E is doable in less time than 2x V2VD runs, it's an overall improvement.

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Originally Posted by Urmom

Psh more like rngs

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O_o Ranged Attacks can bypass Perfect Dodge? I was unaware of this. I guess, that goes to show how little I used that ability in the game's life span

With a 6 bst pt, yes even not everyone plays it, the group was switching between ppl to unleash per turn and killing faster than it could do pd
Side note, we're you killing adds first?

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Originally Posted by Kishr

With a 6 bst pt, yes even not everyone plays it, the group was switching between ppl to unleash per turn and killing faster than it could do pd
Side note, we're you killing adds first?

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You are looking at tacking on an extra 5min+ (and as much as +15min if cactuar is down already,) for SP resets between fights though. It's never a good idea to base a strategy on 1hr abilities when you are planning to spam something. :/

It's doable w/ nearly any normal setup as long as you exclude COR/GEO/BRD/favor buffs. V1E doesn't even require a tank, even my BLU lands Dream Flower w/ no issues up thru V1D (sadly consistent resists on VD,) /ra bypasses Perfect Dodge, can change targets between adds during PD and resleep, etc. There are ways around the challenge, and I'm actually enjoying it this month. ^^ Somewhat concerned about how this whole thing will pan out in months to come, (some beastmen tribes seem like they will be close to impossible to clear VD w/in 30min,) but I'm actually looking forward to it.

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Originally Posted by Nyarlko

I don't know any serious RNG to see how well they perform. :( Do they do well this month?

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Not sure haven't really been playing with serious rngs and well mine still needs a couple of touches but well it is dmg that keeps them out of range so buffs should be safe and goes thru pd... the rng automaton does do good though

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Originally Posted by Zeargi

O_o Ranged Attacks can bypass Perfect Dodge? I was unaware of this. I guess, that goes to show how little I used that ability in the game's life span

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It's actually in the description. Dodge all Melee attacks. Rarely comes up when players use it since well how often would you use it and how often do you fight things that use ranged attacks in melee range but comes up a lot fighting thf mobs.

Switching between 1hr's after 6 runs its a hr, don't need to reset abilities.
By the time we do a 7th run a hr or 45min has passed, removing the option needing to reset ability.

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Originally Posted by Kishr

Switching between 1hr's after 6 runs its a hr, don't need to reset abilities.
By the time we do a 7th run a hr or 45min has passed, removing the option needing to reset ability.

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Oh! You meant that only 1x BST per run used Unleash. I thought you were all popping it each run. OK, that doesn't sound too horrible then. ^^ What difficulty are you talking about btw?

Only did this month once with a bst group, was on easy difficulty.
I'm sure this would work for N also

Killing adds first remove pd?

Bring a THF in with you. Have them use Larceny to take the PD effect. We've had a few people mention doing that and it worked for them. Hope that helps a bit.

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Originally Posted by Dzspdref

Bring a THF in with you. Have them use Larceny to take the PD effect. We've had a few people mention doing that and it worked for them. Hope that helps a bit.

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IF the mobs could only PD once, then this would work, but they can spam it back-to-back without issue.

This months uses perfect dodge too. Please stop this nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

This months uses perfect dodge too. Please stop this nonsense.

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1x use of Perfect Dodge is not nonsense and perfectly acceptable. ^^

No, it's still nonsense. It uses it and adds LITERALLY, I mean ACTUALLY LITERALLY, nothing to the fight. All it does is prolong it by thirty seconds, there is no reason it should even be on the NM.

Stop adding PD to bosses.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

No, it's still nonsense. It uses it and adds LITERALLY, I mean ACTUALLY LITERALLY, nothing to the fight. All it does is prolong it by thirty seconds, there is no reason it should even be on the NM.

Stop adding PD to bosses.

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Or try bringing more than pure melee DD setup. Ranged attacks & magic both bypass PD. It's not actually that big a deal, as long as it's not being spammed and/or used by all mobs involved.

She's not wrong though, it's just a pointless annoyance. PD has never changed the outcome of the battle. Just makes it take longer for the sake of taking longer.

It accomplishes nothing, except adding 30 seconds more congestion, which is supposed to be the opposite of what they're trying to achieve.

Though, as long as it has PD it doesn't have a good 2hour instead, so there's that. Can't advocate saying hey why not give it astral flow instead, or mijin gakure.

Giving a mob something useless like PD saves you from getting crushed by something not useless. Remember that fact when you complain. There are a lot of useless moves/spells in the game, but I don't complain because i'd rather them waste my time by seconds than waste it by hours with something ghetto cheap.

(Except for Velkk, whoever designed Velkk should be fired.)

Have you actually ever tried to nuke an ambuscade mob on N+? You should try nuking an intense N+ mob next time just to see how futile it is.

Also, the qutrubs take TEN TIMES physical damage and TWO TIMES magic, you are not bringing a mage to this to pretend to bypass a dumb mechanic for 30 seconds.

Ranger, ok, but you aren't bringing all ranger DD's to this content because if you pull hate without shadows you fall over dead, and this isn't good content to bring ranger on other DD's with stuns, fast hits(cap damage easily) and ways to avoid damage. DD's have to tank mobs, rangers are not good at tanking mobs.

Stop adding perfect dodge to NM's.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

No, it's still nonsense. It uses it and adds LITERALLY, I mean ACTUALLY LITERALLY, nothing to the fight. All it does is prolong it by thirty seconds, there is no reason it should even be on the NM.

Stop adding PD to bosses.

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From game design pov, PD mechanics gives certain job advantage over the others. For example THF can steal PD and COR can switch to ranged attack mode, certain DD job can gain TP in PD mode such as DRK's occult acument, DRK can also use this downtime to absorb spells or COR can QD in stp gears for more TP.

So it's not really a good for nothing NM mechanics, it's a way to give reasons to bring variety of jobs or allow certain DD job's ability(COR's QD, DRK NIN BLU RDM casting spells etc) have a reason to be used, otherwise we'll just TP WS TP WS and not doing anything else because casting spells lose DPS.

People keep saying those mechanics are pointless, if that's the case do you think the game would be more fun if every NM is just a wall for us to hit WS macros on? I don't think so. I personally enjoy brainstorming "what I can do to improve my performance during PD on this job" in this game.

Same can be said for amnesia/stuns etc. Mechanics like this gives us a reason to brainstorm ways to counter it: Do you want to come RUN or /RUN for magic evasion? Do you want to change cheer effect to amnesia resist +10? Do you want to macro in resist set when you see red lines? Or switch to multi hit/white damage TP set with amnesia on? What about popping ecphoria ring to remove it? Or cast/recast necessary spells since I can't WS anyways?

Without these mechanics it's boring as hell to just TP WS TP WS and do nothing else.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Have you actually ever tried to nuke an ambuscade mob on N+? You should try nuking an intense N+ mob next time just to see how futile it is.

Also, the qutrubs take TEN TIMES physical damage and TWO TIMES magic, you are not bringing a mage to this to pretend to bypass a dumb mechanic for 30 seconds.

Ranger, ok, but you aren't bringing all ranger DD's to this content because if you pull hate without shadows you fall over dead, and this isn't good content to bring ranger on other DD's with stuns, fast hits(cap damage easily) and ways to avoid damage. DD's have to tank mobs, rangers are not good at tanking mobs.

Stop adding perfect dodge to NM's.

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The boss Qutrub actually has the same 10x dmg mod for magic, it just also has 200MDB and absurdly low elemental damage resists, which combine to a total of ~2x damage. Your best bet is fire, as it's "only" a 50% rating (most other elements are in the %10-20% range).. Should result in the full 2x damage at least. @_@;; In this case, the magic damage taken issue could have been viable if they hadn't basically floored elemental dmg resist ratings.

My THF can reliably land bolts on up to Normal btw. :3 There are options to counter PD if you try thinking outside the box a little. There's more to the game than meleeing.

I recast buffs during PD. Boss can't be fed TP and can't get TP due to shadows and has no regain. He actually attacks 2 times in total during PD with elegy/sab slow2 on. No strategy or depth.

Where are you getting these resist and MDB numbers from?

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

I recast buffs during PD. Boss can't be fed TP and can't get TP due to shadows and has no regain. He actually attacks 2 times in total during PD with elegy/sab slow2 on. No strategy or depth.

Where are you getting these resist and MDB numbers from?

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Numbers come from a JP site where they've broken down the elemental resist formula for most mobs in the game it seems. Link here if you want to give it a browse. GTrans does a semi-OK job as usual as long as you are not trying to pick out the technical details. ^^

I've been dropping nukes on GEO with no bubble or other support for magic on Normal and Difficult. 9k fire III's 13k fire V's and 70k+ MBs that I had to chill on so I didn't rip hate from NINs. It's not melee damage but seems fine to me. Honestly I'm with Nyarlko. It was really annoying repeatedly but doing it once with the ability to still land some decent ranged and magic damage is fine with me personally.