More Apex Monster locations?

I was wondering if more groups of apex monsters can be added to various [not so popular] areas, and spread people out a bit more?

With a week long CP campaign on Asura, there are parties actually having to "sit" on each other.

I'm aware this problem is more than likely going to be exclusive to Asura. However, it can't do any harm to simply add more high level monsters to various zones(?)

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Originally Posted by Sirmarki

I was wondering if more groups of apex monsters can be added to various [not so popular] areas, and spread people out a bit more?

With a week long CP campaign on Asura, there are parties actually having to "sit" on each other.

I'm aware this problem is more than likely going to be exclusive to Asura. However, it can't do any harm to simply add more high level monsters to various zones(?)

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Try different zones/camps. There are often several viable spots that get overlooked, even with high player traffic.

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Originally Posted by Sirmarki

I was wondering if more groups of apex monsters can be added to various [not so popular] areas, and spread people out a bit more?

With a week long CP campaign on Asura, there are parties actually having to "sit" on each other.

I'm aware this problem is more than likely going to be exclusive to Asura. However, it can't do any harm to simply add more high level monsters to various zones(?)

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Problem is you picked the reddit approved server and now are complaining your zerg is too big.

No problems on lesser populated servers. Waste of dev time to add monsters to zones because of one server,

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Problem is you picked the reddit approved server and now are complaining your zerg is too big.

No problems on lesser populated servers. Waste of dev time to add monsters to zones because of one server,

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Weird logic...

I moved to the server because the server I was on was DEAD, ie: Nobody around to do stuff, and no shouts. Many many players made the move over too. I don't pay to play by myself or I'd just buy an offline game, for a one off price and play that.

If every server had an average 250-300 players online (accounting for multi-box too) as the last server I was on, I'm pretty sure SE would be close to flicking the switch on FFXI.

Should try reisinjima. At higher chains I'm getting about 13-15k per kill on jobs with a decent amount of jps already and cor roll but things die super fast. Not to single out any particular kill method but I've seen people send out multiple pullers to grab a couple dozen mobs that then all died with 1-2 tengima buffets. Stuff adds up real fast

Bonus points you get a ton of silt, beads and crystals doing this. Also complete a lot more RoE for those benefits

It's your server.

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Originally Posted by Sirmarki

I was wondering if more groups of apex monsters can be added to various [not so popular] areas, and spread people out a bit more?

With a week long CP campaign on Asura, there are parties actually having to "sit" on each other.

I'm aware this problem is more than likely going to be exclusive to Asura. However, it can't do any harm to simply add more high level monsters to various zones(?)

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It would be nice to have some more apex spread around.

Also to note almost no one I know of tries to do Apex in Ra'Kaznar Inner Court. Which is full of apex that you can really target and take advantage ofs weakness like bats, butterflies, skeletons hounds and the flying sperm things

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Originally Posted by Urmom

Also to note almost no one I know of tries to do Apex in Ra'Kaznar Inner Court. Which is full of apex that you can really target and take advantage ofs weakness like bats, butterflies, skeletons hounds and the flying sperm things

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Those targets are higher level (136ish) than gates mobs, and can actually pose a serious challenge to undergeared/unprepared groups. For instance, before the last mob stat nerf, Apex Bat in Outer Raz needed ~1400acc to cap, and hit non-tanks like a pissed off truck. I've seen trust tanks basically get one-shotted by unlucky strings of DA/crits as well.. Basically saying, it's not a simple/laid-back camp where you can get away without a tank or support. Should note that I've gotten ~30k CP/kill without chain on those as well. Should also note that while the mobs there are segregated and have distinct camps (beware the fallen robots, they are mean if you wake them up btw,) the zone map is not exactly straightforward, so expect a ~20min commute from town until you memorize the route.

Inner Raz has always been intriguing to me, but the Apex mobs there seem to be intentionally positioned to prevent safe pulling. I tried to learn some BLU spells there and consistently got angry-mobbed and curb-stomped every time I tried to pull certain mobs, and said mobs would tear thru trusts like nothing anyway, so I gave up on the dvergrs there as learning targets. :x Those ones at least are ~137-139, so you'd be exp'ing on mobs higher level than Escha T3s.

Maybe instead of adding more Apex mob spawns, the devs can just move around some of the existing ones to allow some viable camps in Ra'Kaznar zones?

Family member and I have been camping in Moh Gates, the raptors and boy, I'd have to say...

It seems like they designed that area for maximum annoyance. They put those stupidly overpowered Matamatas there everywhere, especially near the Ergon Locus, there's this very skinny narrow passageway that has 2-3 matamatas just sitting there with LOTS of raptors in behind it. Of course, the camps elsewhere in this area are usually taken and the Ergon Locus room itself is a perfect camp, but pulling is NOT easy because of the stupid matamatas and terrain features that block Line of Sight are highly annoying.

This camp would be so much better if they'd replace the 2 matamatas that spawn there with raptors instead.

And also, there's several other zones, like Cirdas, that are expansive and wide open and are full of the same mobs that you can find anywhere. Why not tuck a couple apex camps in there, too? That place is freaking huge with a lot of optional rooms that have nothing interesting in them whatsoever. Perfect place to put a couple Apex camps.

And yeah, Ra'Kaznar is way too high for most people. Need a full 6 person group for that probably unless you are ridiculously geared with all the best endgame crap. And even then, you might be awesome but your Trusts are going to get torn apart.

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Originally Posted by Nyarlko

Those targets are higher level (136ish) than gates mobs, and can actually pose a serious challenge to undergeared/unprepared groups. For instance, before the last mob stat nerf, Apex Bat in Outer Raz needed ~1400acc to cap, and hit non-tanks like a pissed off truck. I've seen trust tanks basically get one-shotted by unlucky strings of DA/crits as well.. Basically saying, it's not a simple/laid-back camp where you can get away without a tank or support. Should note that I've gotten ~30k CP/kill without chain on those as well. Should also note that while the mobs there are segregated and have distinct camps (beware the fallen robots, they are mean if you wake them up btw,) the zone map is not exactly straightforward, so expect a ~20min commute from town until you memorize the route.

Inner Raz has always been intriguing to me, but the Apex mobs there seem to be intentionally positioned to prevent safe pulling. I tried to learn some BLU spells there and consistently got angry-mobbed and curb-stomped every time I tried to pull certain mobs, and said mobs would tear thru trusts like nothing anyway, so I gave up on the dvergrs there as learning targets. :x Those ones at least are ~137-139, so you'd be exp'ing on mobs higher level than Escha T3s.

Maybe instead of adding more Apex mob spawns, the devs can just move around some of the existing ones to allow some viable camps in Ra'Kaznar zones?

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Sure they aren't for people soloing and low manning or random setup. But for the situations of parties on top of parties seems like a viable alternative. I find inner courts easier/faster to get around in. Need more of a return to old xp pting

As far as pulling your problem seems to be you were targeting the pseudo nms that rule each camp and not the ones titled apex. I've definitely pulled them and done testing on them via it (dvergr was actually how I was able to hit iirc like 60k cp kill back before we had 2-3x or half the bonuses we do now) they are of course the only one on each camp so have to often go around or kill other mobs to do it while if you were just cping you'd just kill the mobs around it just fine. Pulling the regular apex mobs don't think I've ever got other stuff there.

There is also the fact that like I said they are pseudo nms so while they don't check impossible to gauge they definitely have higher stats/lvls then the surrounding mobs, nm type name, and annoying monster types that are generally associated with nms and probably most importantly less ridiculous AoEs. For a blu getting spells yeah it might make sense but no cp party is going to target the Naraka instead of the skeletons around it lol. Long time ago when I first did it yeah acc was an issue (took me like 20 minutes to tribox the dvergr to death though there never was any danger) but just new/better gear it's gotten a lot better. While maybe higher level danger level and difficulty of the actually apex is below even T1 escha nms by a bit. I might go back up see how fast I can kill though sadly my best jobs for blowing thru lots of hp safely multiboxing without help don't need cp lol. Hmmmm maybe if I gear up my rng and have auto tank...

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Originally Posted by Urmom

Sure they aren't for people soloing and low manning or random setup. But for the situations of parties on top of parties seems like a viable alternative. I find inner courts easier/faster to get around in. Need more of a return to old xp pting

As far as pulling your problem seems to be you were targeting the pseudo nms that rule each camp and not the ones titled apex. I've definitely pulled them and done testing on them via it (dvergr was actually how I was able to hit iirc like 60k cp kill back before we had 2-3x or half the bonuses we do now) they are of course the only one on each camp so have to often go around or kill other mobs to do it while if you were just cping you'd just kill the mobs around it just fine. Pulling the regular apex mobs don't think I've ever got other stuff there.

There is also the fact that like I said they are pseudo nms so while they don't check impossible to gauge they definitely have higher stats/lvls then the surrounding mobs, nm type name, and annoying monster types that are generally associated with nms and probably most importantly less ridiculous AoEs. For a blu getting spells yeah it might make sense but no cp party is going to target the Naraka instead of the skeletons around it lol. Long time ago when I first did it yeah acc was an issue (took me like 20 minutes to tribox the dvergr to death though there never was any danger) but just new/better gear it's gotten a lot better. While maybe higher level danger level and difficulty of the actually apex is below even T1 escha nms by a bit. I might go back up see how fast I can kill though sadly my best jobs for blowing thru lots of hp safely multiboxing without help don't need cp lol. Hmmmm maybe if I gear up my rng and have auto tank...

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They actually don't have higher stats that the surrounding mobs as far as I could tell, other than family/job differences, so I don't believe that they count as "pseudo NMs". The dvergr are the same level range as the Apex Bats in the same zone for instance. Dvergr are probably a bad test subject/example though simply due to having no other non-NM versions to compare them to as far as I know of.

My problem was that any time I took a single hit from any of them, I would drop into the yellow and blood agro a bunch of adds, which would sometimes link w/ even more adds, which resulted in a vaguely Nyarlko-shaped smear on the floor after a few seconds. ^^;;

For the other 137-139 Apex mobs in Inner Raz, (like Apex Bats - triplets,) or any lv139 non-NM, expect to need at least ~1436acc to cap, plus more to counter any acc-/eva+ type moves from your targets. (That should be the right value unless there's an extra scaling breakpoint @136+ that I haven't tried testing for since the last mob nerf.)

All of which means that the traditional party setup (tank+heal+support+3x Damage-of-some-sort) is probably the best option for attempting these. Don't be too surprised if you get eaten though. XD

There's some point where kill speed matters, too.

I mean, sure you could get the 65.5k cap on the stuff in Inner Ra'kaznar, but they surely take a lot more effort than Gates mobs.

If you can kill weaker stuff faster, you might get better XP/hr, kinda like the old days where killing VT was better than IT++. 100xp per 2 min is better than 200xp per 5 min, etc.

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Originally Posted by Nyarlko

They actually don't have higher stats that the surrounding mobs as far as I could tell, other than family/job differences, so I don't believe that they count as "pseudo NMs". The dvergr are the same level range as the Apex Bats in the same zone for instance. Dvergr are probably a bad test subject/example though simply due to having no other non-NM versions to compare them to as far as I know of.

My problem was that any time I took a single hit from any of them, I would drop into the yellow and blood agro a bunch of adds, which would sometimes link w/ even more adds, which resulted in a vaguely Nyarlko-shaped smear on the floor after a few seconds. ^^;;

For the other 137-139 Apex mobs in Inner Raz, (like Apex Bats - triplets,) or any lv139 non-NM, expect to need at least ~1436acc to cap, plus more to counter any acc-/eva+ type moves from your targets. (That should be the right value unless there's an extra scaling breakpoint @136+ that I haven't tried testing for since the last mob nerf.)

All of which means that the traditional party setup (tank+heal+support+3x Damage-of-some-sort) is probably the best option for attempting these. Don't be too surprised if you get eaten though. XD

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Maybe not level but compared to the other mob types around definitely much stronger (though Dvergr is probably the weakest of those pseudo nms probably because it's closest regular mob type equivalent is corpselight which are pretty weak) even if only because of the moves. They are definitely not the things you'd target for cping even if they weren't 1 ofs.

I know it's been a really long time since it's been popular or useful but you can pull without taking hits until it gets to camp <.<. Heck can even do it in the middle of a group of mobs though much harder and wouldn't recommend. Either way not a problem for cp groups who would just pull the closest mobs at range

I can go check exact numbers but I was definitely unfloored (though still terrible acc) with my autos ws a good couple of years ago when I last seriously fought them and their acc at the time was iirc around 1150-1170 given the ws have 0-150 acc bonus I doubt I needed more than 1400 to cap even prenerf. That said only tried skeletons and dvergr

Or a mixed build. With say pets playing dual dd/tank roles. Or maybe some mb setup to go lighter on the support/healer role not sure. Only did limited magic testing which gave me some weird results as far as dmg and they seemed fairly resistant... but only really tried against caster types and well didn't have good macc sets so not sure if it's viable. Could even maybe combine and use some lizards to deal decent blunt dmg to skeletons into a 3 step liquefaction -> fusion that some mages MB.

I could also see making your support the healer and optimization dmg type weakness for huge skills to take them down fast or just target the floating sperm because they are wet paper bags

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Originally Posted by Aysha

There's some point where kill speed matters, too.

I mean, sure you could get the 65.5k cap on the stuff in Inner Ra'kaznar, but they surely take a lot more effort than Gates mobs.

If you can kill weaker stuff faster, you might get better XP/hr, kinda like the old days where killing VT was better than IT++. 100xp per 2 min is better than 200xp per 5 min, etc.

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OH sure this wouldn't be my first choice. That's cleaving in reisin. But this whole thread was started on there is no where to camp because camping over each other. This whole line is based on pull speed and mob availability matters. The point is there are alternatives so don't be a jerk and overcamp stuff

There were likely at least two major mob nerfs since you tested if it was a couple years ago. This last one actually altered what I call the "Level +1 Formula" too, so everything not only had their baseline stats lowered, but they gain less stats for each level gained over 119. Pre-nerfs, based on level alone and excluding any oddball negative evasion bonuses if they exist, lv139 mobs would need 1469-1516 acc, depending on whether the mob's jobs and Evasion Bonus traits. I've always had trouble reaching high enough acc to even try testing the 137+ mobs, and haven't tried in recent months. If anyone else gives these a shot, please test for acc reqs while you're at it! XD

So yeah tested and these things are much easier than expected. Not too different in terms of relative acc requirements and survivability as old 75 meriting at the harder camps (think like doing some nin mamool while doing the puks and whatever). The danger of overcapping is real though

They should add apex mobs to every zone in the game, I want to go exp in king ramperre's tomb, garlaige, crawlers nest, sky, sea, gustav, kuftal, etc again. It's so easy to code mobs to respawn in ~30 seconds and have the stats of level 130-150 so why not.

Would be so fun to be able to exp in old zones from back in the day again(also I want conquest and imperial standing).

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

They should add apex mobs to every zone in the game, I want to go exp in king ramperre's tomb, garlaige, crawlers nest, sky, sea, gustav, kuftal, etc again. It's so easy to code mobs to respawn in ~30 seconds and have the stats of level 130-150 so why not.

Would be so fun to be able to exp in old zones from back in the day again(also I want conquest and imperial standing).

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We already did that once during Abyssea. It messed up several old XP camps and made some quests arguably much more dangerous than they once were (getting a Dangruf Stone, for example, is far more dangerous now that there's Lv80+ mobs where they used to be Lv20).

I think that would be overkill to go through all that all over again. I think that merely some areas like Cirdas (as I mentioned above) have plenty of nooks and crannies where Apex mobs could be tucked away that wouldn't be in anybody's way.

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Originally Posted by Aysha

We already did that once during Abyssea. It messed up several old XP camps and made some quests arguably much more dangerous than they once were (getting a Dangruf Stone, for example, is far more dangerous now that there's Lv80+ mobs where they used to be Lv20).

I think that would be overkill to go through all that all over again. I think that merely some areas like Cirdas (as I mentioned above) have plenty of nooks and crannies where Apex mobs could be tucked away that wouldn't be in anybody's way.

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I think the Map2 areas for Cirdas Caverns (the ones you "Beam me up!" to from a crystal thing in each major SoA zone, which requires beating the local WKR to use) would be a great place to stick more ~135 Apex mobs. They are rarely occupied by even one player, there are not any quests that I know of that it would interfere with, and the mobs there are already 120-125 so there wouldn't be as drastic a change as adding them to old zones. I'm pretty sure that SoA+ zones mob level/stat mechanics work differently than old zones as well, so there are likely to be technical hurdles in adding them to old zones.

Note: Give me Apex Hippogryphs with decent drop rates on Feathers and I will be ecstatic. XD I'm sooooooooooo sick of farming for about 12/hr, with TH8+...

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Originally Posted by Aysha

We already did that once during Abyssea. It messed up several old XP camps and made some quests arguably much more dangerous than they once were (getting a Dangruf Stone, for example, is far more dangerous now that there's Lv80+ mobs where they used to be Lv20).

I think that would be overkill to go through all that all over again. I think that merely some areas like Cirdas (as I mentioned above) have plenty of nooks and crannies where Apex mobs could be tucked away that wouldn't be in anybody's way.

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Vast majority of the mobs they added to old area don't even aggro or link now.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Vast majority of the mobs they added to old area don't even aggro or link now.

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Yeah, tell that to the Goblins in Dangruf Wadi, or the Ghosts in Fei'yin on the way to the BCNM there who will happily one-shot you if you happen to be on a quest that requires you to go there and your S/I happens to fall off or you need to re-buff and there's no safe spots nearby or what-not.

There are others but these are two examples. How about the True Sight Lv80+ enemies in Promyvion? Someone trying to solo the first few Promathia quests at Lv40-ish might end up getting smeared because he had no idea that there'd be Lv80+ mobs in around Lv30-ish enemies. *SPLAT!* he's dead in one hit (they are True Sight) and Promyvion itself is a maze if you're not familiar with the place.

That, and I have to laugh at some of their enemy choices. Who would XP on Empty? lol. Or ghosts for that matter.

But then the Apex Mobs... anybody who willingly pulls the Matamatas have to be out of their flippin mind because those are so OP compared to anything else there.

I want to live in a world where someone is soloing promys at level 40. The truesight level 90 mobs will definitely be the least of their worries at that point.

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Originally Posted by Aysha

Who would xp on ghosts for that matter.

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Somebody hasn't had a KRT pt

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

I want to live in a world where someone is soloing promys at level 40. The truesight level 90 mobs will definitely be the least of their worries at that point.

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Last I checked you can call Trusts, and those fights were designed for Lv30, so at Lv40 + 4 Trusts, those fights should be weaksauce. Even the normal enemies on the way up, even the last floor which were barely IT (36-38?) they would be Decent Challenge and quite do-able with a Trust group as long as you didn't get more than 3 of them on you at any given time.

I think it would be very reasonable for someone to solo that at 40.

This is not EVEN mentioning the boss debuff items which would be overkill IMO. The main problem is figuring out the path, not running afoul of Lv90 mobs, and knowing what to do (which wiki can provide).

Promy maps suck. < Main challenge for completing the missions. lol

I dboxed it w/ 2x 35ish mules, does that count? XD Well, ~35 when I entered the first one, 40+ when I finished the last one IIRC.. Had no problems whatsoever doing it. Just use MGS rules and stay away from anything with two names. I also leveled my very first job (THF) for a few levels on the high lvl mobs inside. LSmate needed mats for anima and I was low/mid 70s, so worked out nicely IIRC.