Forgotten AF Weapons

This might have been said a lot of times. It still feels like it's missing. Can we get AF Weapons upgraded to iLv119? It's something that feels out of place.

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Originally Posted by AoiX

This might have been said a lot of times. It still feels like it's missing. Can we get AF Weapons upgraded to iLv119? It's something that feels out of place.

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They'd have to make something up for SCH, because their AF "Weapon" was a spell

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Originally Posted by Zeargi

They'd have to make something up for SCH, because their AF "Weapon" was a spell

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Could add a "book" ammo piece that enhances Klimaform somehow. ^^ Would be really sad if this really was the core reason that AF weapons were overlooked for the reforging process all this time..

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Originally Posted by Nyarlko

Could add a "book" ammo piece that enhances Klimaform somehow. ^^ Would be really sad if this really was the core reason that AF weapons were overlooked for the reforging process all this time..

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I agree with this. A nice ammo/ranged piece to enhance the AF spell would be awesome.

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Originally Posted by AoiX

I agree with this. A nice ammo/ranged piece to enhance the AF spell would be awesome.

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Basically then SCH might have a worthwhile reforged AF "weapon" while all the other jobs would probably have something unusable. If it enhances some aspect of a job like the SCH ammo being discussed here, then putting it in the main slot will cause problems.

I think the question to ask is what does a reforged AF weapon add to the game? Who is it for? Will it rival RME weapons or will it be closer in strength to an Oboro weapon? Unless it provides something unique that can be used by everybody, it sounds like more trouble than it's worth.

"Enhances Klimaform" could be tons of things. ^^;; If it was something as low-impact as increased duration and/or macc, it would be far from unfair to the rest. Even if it was something like MAB it could still be balanced out by lowering any other stats on it. Honestly, I just like the flavor behind a grimoire themed ammo boosting a SCH-unique ability. XD

I figure that if they were to do this, the general power level would have to rest somewhere around Oboro JSE level, just with different job-unique enhancements to give them a niche. They don't have to be BIS in order to be usable and it seems like a good idea to me to add another path to a 1st 119 weapon for those that don't have someone pulling them thru content.

Would rather they added an iLevel JSE neck.

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Originally Posted by Nyarlko

"Enhances Klimaform" could be tons of things. ^^;; If it was something as low-impact as increased duration and/or macc, it would be far from unfair to the rest. Even if it was something like MAB it could still be balanced out by lowering any other stats on it. Honestly, I just like the flavor behind a grimoire themed ammo boosting a SCH-unique ability. XD

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The point is it'd be useful as you can change it to gain the buffs, whereas even if JSE weapons had buffs, they'll be weaker than RMEA and many other weapons DMG wise so would never get used due to TP loss.

@Jakuk: Not me, running out of space for more JSE gear. We need some relief.

The point of oboro weapons is decent entry-level weapons and frequently a nice fallback weapon if acc is an issue, especially for dual-wielders.

This is not a scholar centric idea. It's an idea to make all Artifacts "Weapons" relevant to their armor counterparts. It's not meant to be a JSE replacement either. It's something that is long overdue and should be also enhanced for all jobs. If for a Scholar it enhances Klimaform, maybe for a WAR it enhances Warcry or for a PLD Sentinel.

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Originally Posted by AoiX

This is not a scholar centric idea. It's an idea to make all Artifacts "Weapons" relevant to their armor counterparts. It's not meant to be a JSE replacement either. It's something that is long overdue and should be also enhanced for all jobs. If for a Scholar it enhances Klimaform, maybe for a WAR it enhances Warcry or for a PLD Sentinel.

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Okay, but why would we want that? Gear that enhances very specific aspects of a job can be useful but if we're talking about weapons then it's pretty much a non-starter. What kind of stats would your theoretical WAR axe (yes, it's an axe) have to have in order to be useful?

I like JSE gear but I have no fond memories of AF weapons. They couldn't be stored for years, not even with the NPC and most people just threw them out as soon as they got them so I don't even think nostalgia is a factor.

So what you are asking for is an i119 weapon which could be used to enhance different effects than Mythic Weapons, but use the AF Weapon as a base for upgrading it?

On the enhancing ability-front. I wish they'd make such gear (mostly relic/empy) key items. In most cases we don't actually use this gear for more than a split second. out of every several minutes.

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Originally Posted by detlef

Okay, but why would we want that? Gear that enhances very specific aspects of a job can be useful but if we're talking about weapons then it's pretty much a non-starter. What kind of stats would your theoretical WAR axe (yes, it's an axe) have to have in order to be useful?

I like JSE gear but I have no fond memories of AF weapons. They couldn't be stored for years, not even with the NPC and most people just threw them out as soon as they got them so I don't even think nostalgia is a factor.

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TBH, I don't know WAR too well, but I'll take a stab at it anyway. XD Ok.. so "Razor Axe" is indeed a 1h axe. O_o I'm thinking of several possible models that could work. (Gonna exclude dmg/delay and base ilvl stats from my proposals since I have no idea what would be proper for something like this. ^^;; )
* STR+10 DEX+10 Fencer+2 "Enhances Blood Rage" (crit dmg+5%) Don't think there are too many other options for Fencer. Could make them a cycle that buffs the lv96 SP abilities since nothing else does as far as I know.
* Something completely different! Convert it into a ranged weapon!! XD Ammo slot: STR+5 DEX+5 "Enhances Tomahawk" (effect+8%), and functions as infinite ammo for Tomahawk. I actually like this idea better since as mentioned, mainhand weapons carry the extra baggage of TP loss on swap while something like ammo doesn't. I'm sure there would be some way to do the same type of treatment for other jobs as well.

If they went w/ the 1st concept, then "reforged AF" should be roughly on-par w/ Oboro JSE so they wouldn't be "bad" and we'd finally get something that affects our 2nd 1hr JAs. Like I said, I don't play WAR, so I wouldn't be surprised if someone else could come up with a better balance so that they could be acceptable w/ normal use and awesome w/ the 96SPs.

If they went w/ the 2nd concept, they could convert the old weapons into different slots which could allow us to receive the benefits w/ little perceived loss, and could even be used to fill existing voids. Plus, I'm sure that there should be plenty of flavorful ways to continue the AF storylines so this conversion makes sense. There's nothing to prevent them from going this route as well since the AF weapons have been untouched by ilvl/reforging so far, and there is nothing in "the rules" so to speak that says they aren't allowed to.

Good enough answer for your challenge I hope? ;)

If the devs are forced to work with 15-year old weapons they would be limiting themselves for no reason. I forgot that the BLM weapon was a club too, bleh. Uh I guess your theoretical axe could be useful? I have no idea.

As for your second, preferred idea... If we're saying, oh take this old weapon from 2002 which has no sentimental value to anyone and no distinct appearance. Convert it into ammo or something so you can equip it with a real weapon. What's the point of that? Has anyone ever said, "Man I loved my Marauder's Knife, which appears to share the same model as the aptly-named 'Knife.' I wish I could bring it back."

Again, these weapons do not have unique models so you're it's not like you're getting something distinct and cool except now your Paper Knife is an earring or something. In that case, why not save the devs the trouble and request more JSE instead of a convoluted upgrade process that has no reason to exist?

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TBH, I don't know WAR too well, but I'll take a stab at it anyway. XD Ok.. so "Razor Axe" is indeed a 1h axe. O_o

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Before 2h weapons were initially buffed, to the point of 1h weapon user's chagrin, dual-wielding Axes and spamming Rampage was how WAR was mostly played in parties. That's why, when Acc was still an issue, I thought it lacked historical perspective when WARs were getting very attached to being Great Axe users, despite also being on Farsha.

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Originally Posted by detlef

If the devs are forced to work with 15-year old weapons they would be limiting themselves for no reason. I forgot that the BLM weapon was a club too, bleh. Uh I guess your theoretical axe could be useful? I have no idea.

As for your second, preferred idea... If we're saying, oh take this old weapon from 2002 which has no sentimental value to anyone and no distinct appearance. Convert it into ammo or something so you can equip it with a real weapon. What's the point of that? Has anyone ever said, "Man I loved my Marauder's Knife, which appears to share the same model as the aptly-named 'Knife.' I wish I could bring it back."

Again, these weapons do not have unique models so you're it's not like you're getting something distinct and cool except now your Paper Knife is an earring or something. In that case, why not save the devs the trouble and request more JSE instead of a convoluted upgrade process that has no reason to exist?

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There is actually no reason either process would have to be convoluted at all. The devs can do whatever the heck they want to here, whether that is a needlessly complicated farming/upgrade process like standard reforges or additional quests that continue the AF questlines. (They "could" just add an npc that you trade the weapon to and get your reward. lol)

I'm just agreeing that it could be fun to have a continuation to the ages old AF quests that utilize the old weapon in some way. I also think it would set a good precedent to break the playerbase mindset of how reforging/upgrade processes should work. There are no limitations (other than technical ones) that could actually prevent them from going with a conversion process instead of the standard NQ>HQ type reforging that we've seen so far. Yes, the BLM weapon is a club. No, that does not mean that the new version has to be a club. They could give us a staff, ammo, necklace, whatever in exchange for it instead. As long as the quest storylines maintain continuity with the old ones, I'll be happy. ^^ It's not like I'm still using any of them at this point anyway.

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Originally Posted by Ketaru

Before 2h weapons were initially buffed, to the point of 1h weapon user's chagrin, dual-wielding Axes and spamming Rampage was how WAR was mostly played in parties. That's why, when Acc was still an issue, I thought it lacked historical perspective when WARs were getting very attached to being Great Axe users, despite also being on Farsha.

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I remember those days, just not to sure about the finer points of the modern WAR. I thought about suggesting some sort of model intended for offhanding while dualwielding, but decided not to since WAR does not have native DW last I checked.

To be honest I'd love to see something that is game-changing. People are too set in their ways about how they approach this game. But that's just wishful thinking. Still, the upgrade from af weapons, I feel, is something that should have evolved with the AF gear in a natural manner. They added endless ammount of moogle trials at some point with lots of weapons nobody even considers today. I don't see how upgrading AF into a more modern version of those weapons would be any different in the process of designing them. Just make them somewhat relevant to today's content. Eventually upgradable through an NPC like Monisette in Port Jeuno. Maybe even consider them for an upgrade through Omen. Even adding materials through ambuscade would be an option. We are already at a point that almost every piece of relevant gear is augmentable by X, Y or Z process.

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Originally Posted by AoiX

This might have been said a lot of times. It still feels like it's missing. Can we get AF Weapons upgraded to iLv119? It's something that feels out of place.

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This is a great idea! I wonder why the Development Team hasn't thought of this or committed to this? It shouldn't be overpowering than RMEAs but should offer a boon to the jobs that are fully equipped with AF armor. For example, Warrior's Razor Axe. After going through a series of short but relatively challenging upgrades, unlocking one or more special prowess as long as full AF is equipped, allowing the player to maximize their job's full potential using their native armor.

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Originally Posted by detlef

If the devs are forced to work with 15-year old weapons they would be limiting themselves for no reason. I forgot that the BLM weapon was a club too, bleh. Uh I guess your theoretical axe could be useful? I have no idea.

As for your second, preferred idea... If we're saying, oh take this old weapon from 2002 which has no sentimental value to anyone and no distinct appearance. Convert it into ammo or something so you can equip it with a real weapon. What's the point of that? Has anyone ever said, "Man I loved my Marauder's Knife, which appears to share the same model as the aptly-named 'Knife.' I wish I could bring it back."

Again, these weapons do not have unique models so you're it's not like you're getting something distinct and cool except now your Paper Knife is an earring or something. In that case, why not save the devs the trouble and request more JSE instead of a convoluted upgrade process that has no reason to exist?

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If you think about it for a moment, the dev did pull 15-year-old armors and gave them upgrades already without limitation. So, I can't see the limitations they would face doing the same for the AF weapons. And if I recall correctly, it will take very little resources to do this. Plus, I am sure if there is enough demand for it, they will consider it.

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Originally Posted by BurnNotice

If you think about it for a moment, the dev did pull 15-year-old armors and gave them upgrades already without limitation. So, I can't see the limitations they would face doing the same for the AF weapons. And if I recall correctly, it will take very little resources to do this. Plus, I am sure if there is enough demand for it, they will consider it.

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Artifact armor has unique models whereas AF weapons do not. To me this is the critical issue. Who cares about a throwaway item that doesn't even have a unique look? The appearance of artifact armor defines the jobs that can equip it. Artifact weapons have the same models as trash weapons that you can buy from NPCs.

Also, while it's true that artifact armor is ~15 years old, SE had already set a precedent for upgrading the armor in Limbus. These armors have already been established by SE as something they want to preserve and continue to upgrade.

Finally, again what part of the player base are the weapons going to be for? Are they going to fill a niche and actually be useful to people (maybe but unlikely since they will be in the weapon slot)? Will they be too weak and and not worth the trouble (likely)? Would SE completely go the other way and overpower them (unlikely)? To me, I don't think it's worth the effort.

They could have us upgrade them through Magian Trials, upping them to ilvl119 and have us add the element bonuses, (+STR, +Dex etc) and you could have an Element weapon that has a permanent Elemental Enspell on it (which would make it good alternate weapon for a particular type of mob)

They would be good "XXX Killer" weapons

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Originally Posted by Teraniku

They could have us upgrade them through Magian Trials, upping them to ilvl119 and have us add the element bonuses, (+STR, +Dex etc) and you could have an Element weapon that has a permanent Elemental Enspell on it (which would make it good alternate weapon for a particular type of mob)

They would be good "XXX Killer" weapons

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Pretty sure the devs would be loathe to touch the Magian System again. Once they reach a certain point with any content, they tend to kill any further chance of additions to that content. Magian trials are so far past that "no more" point that the devs would be more inclined to add an entirely new method/system than make changes to the Magian stuff.

There is absolutely zero reason that there should be any grind of any type associated with something like this. Simple continuation quests from the stopping point in the original questlines would make more sense. Simple to implement, can logically justify any weapon-type changes w/ a trade-in quest (ex: WAR's axe > g.axe, BLM's club > staff,) and more story is always nice to have.