Regarding RMEA Shurikens

Hello.

I was wondering why there are no RMEA shurikens. The Relic/Mythic/Empyrean/Aeonic weapons for Ranger and Corsair can be used to produce unique ammunition that have very nice stats. The same is not true for any of the RMEA katanas ninja can use. This makes using abilities like Sange very risky and impractical because you may end up throwing difficult to replace shurikens (Seki Shuriken, Happo Shuriken +1) by mistake. I think having RMEA shurikens would also incentivise creating multiple RMEA katanas (there isn't a high incentive to do this for ninja if you can obtain Heishi Shorinken.) Will you please consider adding these?

Thanks

This is a very good question. Daken was a much needed addition which utilized the unique shuriken aspect of ninja. The risk of losing rare and valuable shurikens has always been a worry with abilities such as Sange. Depending on the variety of shuriken added to each RMEA katana it could bring some neglected katanas back into favor with players.

Completely agree with the above sentiment. These shuriken could follow similar bullet characteristics from magic utility to melee or even tanking utility.

Please hear us out and let us know!

Wow this is actually quite a neat idea! Thumb up for it :)

This is a great idea. Can improve tanking, hate keeping, DDing or even ninjutsu boosts.

This needs to be done and quickly. Would be a very easy fix for SE to get nin up to par on dd with others. As it stands we have no reason to pursue more than one REAM and even then the dps they provide isnt a big jump over non-REAM. This would be a very fun solution.

I'll +1 this, cause yeah, that's one of the few actual good ideas that are actually reasonable that popped up on here.

I think that BST RMEA's should have special pets too, but babysteps.

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Originally Posted by Vae

I'll +1 this, cause yeah, that's one of the few actual good ideas that are actually reasonable that popped up on here.

I think that BST RMEA's should have special pets too, but babysteps.

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It'd end up being another frog. :(

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Originally Posted by Jakuk

It'd end up being another frog. :(

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Hey he's a hero!

This is a great idea, and I definitely agree with the idea of a timed dispensable shuriken to prevent accidental throwing. I actually used my one time item restore on a thrown Happo+1 back in 2015 (I've actually since de-merited Sange). Just finished my Armageddon, and the dispensable ammo is a really cool perk of the ranged RMEAs.

At the very least, Shuriken with throwing skill+269 and some better than non-RMEA stats would be a very nice addition to the job, which could easily be balanced to give proper benefit to NIN's RMEAs (none of which are so amazing they couldn't warrant providing some additional buff to the job). Would potentially give me a reason to upgrade my 90 Kannagi too, which is otherwise doomed to a life in my mog locker and my NIN /lockstyle set...

Thanks for the suggestion about adding special shurikens.

While this is definitely an interesting idea, the development team does not have any plans to introduce something like this. Since ninjas are able to boost their damage output through Daken, it would result in a direct damage boost on top of what katanas are already capable of. In the event that we were to introduce RMEA shurikens, we would have to lower the stats on katanas to balance everything properly, and we feel that this is not a desirable change.

They don't have to be that powerful... I think most Ninjas would just love to have a source of unlimited, good shurikens to make better use of Sange which just blow through them so quickly.

They could get creative with adding different types of Shurikens based upon the RMEA katana too (some focusing on magical, others on physical abilities, another perhaps defensive/tanking, etc.) similar to the Ranged RMEAs' ammunition.

This seems like a wasted opportunity and kind of a lazy excuse to not make them... :/ Please have the dev team reconsider.

Sigh, so many ideas get swatted down without a second thought when it could easily be used and the adjusted to their idea of "balance"

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Originally Posted by Jakuk

Sigh, so many ideas get swatted down without a second thought when it could easily be used and the adjusted to their idea of "balance"

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Camate's response specifically addresses the balance issue and what their solution would be in this case.. I doubt that anyone wants RMEA weapons nerfed just to get the proposed shuriken. ^^;;

Maybe something with similar damage/delay to current topend 119 shuriken but w/ "Throwing skill +269" and high r.acc could work though? If the only damage increase was due to fewer misses, then I wouldn't think that it would be enough to require adjusting the katanas themselves maybe? Add some defensive/caster stats to each to give them a purpose (eva/meva, macc/FastCast, mdb/def, and mab/INT sound like decent pairings to me) while avoiding the issues of increasing physical damage output.

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Originally Posted by Nyarlko

Camate's response specifically addresses the balance issue and what their solution would be in this case.. I doubt that anyone wants RMEA weapons nerfed just to get the proposed shuriken. ^^;;

Maybe something with similar damage/delay to current topend 119 shuriken but w/ "Throwing skill +269" and high r.acc could work though? If the only damage increase was due to fewer misses, then I wouldn't think that it would be enough to require adjusting the katanas themselves maybe? Add some defensive/caster stats to each to give them a purpose (eva/meva, macc/FastCast, mdb/def, and mab/INT sound like decent pairings to me) while avoiding the issues of increasing physical damage output.

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But the OP never asked for ridiculous stats, it'd basically be pretty much the same as the current best shuriken, only instead of you getting 1 and only using it for Dakan you'd get 99 and might get use out of Sange.

So with the greatest of respect to the SE staff I disagree with their reasoning.

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Originally Posted by Jakuk

But the OP never asked for ridiculous stats, it'd basically be pretty much the same as the current best shuriken, only instead of you getting 1 and only using it for Dakan you'd get 99 and might get use out of Sange.

So with the greatest of respect to the SE staff I disagree with their reasoning.

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The OP asked for something on-par with the ranged weapon RMEA dispensed ammos, which are much more powerful than other ammos. I can understand why a sudden increase in available damage output (some of which would be a passive increase for doing nothing for those who already have the katanas,) would be concerning for the devs. That's why I suggested non-RMEA damage on the dispensed shurikens, and use them as a way to boost non-melee functions of the job. Hoping that would be enough of a trade-off that it could become a feasible idea for the devs to consider.

The most logical reason for the no-go is that the devs really don't want to have to rework the RMEA weapons at all (unless it's a blanket-type adjustment.) I can imagine the flood of tears that would sweep thru the forums... "Ninja RMEA got a buff so why didn't <MyJob> get one too? T_T" would have it's own thread in every forum that it wouldn't automatically get pruned from. Even if they were willing to deal with those complaints, there would be the technical issues of creating replacement versions of the weapons in addition to the ammo varieties and the possible headaches that would be involved with replacing existing copies with the new versions... None of us actually know for sure how much coding work goes into making items, and I wouldn't be surprised if converting an existing "normal" item into a dispensing one was significantly more effort than it might sound to us on the outside.

Nyarlko, there really is zero balance issues here lol

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Originally Posted by Creelo

Nyarlko, there really is zero balance issues here lol

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I am not saying there are any from my POV as a player, but there may be from the dev's POV. I imagine that there would be an increase in damage output if they gave us higher damage rating shurikens after all. If they've actually run the numbers far enough to believe that it would require a nerf to the RMEA katanas themselves in order to implement shuriken on-par with the dispensed ammo from bows/guns, then try dialing back the request to something the devs might find more reasonable. Similar damage ratings to existing shuriken would be less likely to raise any red flags and they could be used to support other aspects of the job other than melee / WS spam.

Maybe the could change the existing RMEA katanas to dispense special shurikens like how the ranged RMEAs dispense special ammo?

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Originally Posted by Gannon

Maybe the could change the existing RMEA katanas to dispense special shurikens like how the ranged RMEAs dispense special ammo?

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lol That is exactly what this thread is about. XD

Real talk here but asking for an equivalent to REMA ammo isn't that much of an upgrade to what is currently available partly because ninjas already have access to rarer higher dmg shurikens but not in easily obtainable quantities to use with sange and wouldn't increase dps that much since the actual dmg from throwing is only a small portion of a nins dps


For example the best physical bullet you can easily get in quantities is Achiyal. Bullet at 253 dmg 20 racc/ratt. Compare to say eradicating at 289 dmg and 30 racc/ratt. Difference between the 2 assuming using annihilator is about 9% increase in shooting base dmg and depends on ws but maybe 5% increase in base dmg to ws and of course the extra 10 racc/ratt

Now the best throwing dps shuriken you can get in quantities to sange is gunna probably be Sasuke Shuriken and even that might be iffy given the price at 99 base dmg 3 agi and otherwise the same. While Togakushi shuriken is 104 dmg 3 agi 5 acc/att and 10 racc. So already available we have something that increases our throwing dmg almost as much as the rem bullets helped shooting dmg base dmg and arguably helps even more with acc since it helps the nins melee too. Giving something with slightly higher than Togakushi wouldn't be game breaking... especially since most your melee this and all your ws dmg is with the katana. Giving us a rem dispensable shuriken with similar increase of stats over the common shuriken to what rem bullets had over common ammo would result in rather small increase in overall dps but what it would mostly do is enable the usage of sange without spending a ridiculous amount of time farming or spending gil or using lower ilvl ones that will be more prone to missing

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Originally Posted by Nyarlko

I am not saying there are any from my POV as a player, but there may be from the dev's POV. I imagine that there would be an increase in damage output if they gave us higher damage rating shurikens after all. If they've actually run the numbers far enough to believe that it would require a nerf to the RMEA katanas themselves in order to implement shuriken on-par with the dispensed ammo from bows/guns, then try dialing back the request to something the devs might find more reasonable. Similar damage ratings to existing shuriken would be less likely to raise any red flags and they could be used to support other aspects of the job other than melee / WS spam.

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Literally, all it'd do is make Sange useable.

If they want to lock them to the same DMG as the ones available so be it, all that's wanted is the weapons to distribute a stack of Shurikens every hour so they can actually use a JA they were given.