Are multi-box players delaying server merges?

Hi,

With a lot of players controlling probably 2-4 different characters, I'm going to estimate that 30% or more of the population are multiple accounts controlled by the one person.

Obviously on paper, this looks like individuals playing...

Take away the mules, and what do we have?

So, my question is, do you think this is delaying any potential merges?

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Originally Posted by Sirmarki

So, my question is, do you think this is delaying any potential merges?

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The dev team and the remaining players - all of us, not just those playing multiple accounts - are the ones responsible for the delay in server merges. Too many players think only about themselves, they've got all the jobs they care to play at 99 and are already participating in end game content with active linkshells, so they think being on a quiet server is more beneficial to them since Ambuscade has become such a major part of the game. Those who do want the larger, more active servers aren't doing enough to make their voices heard.

The answer to this question, regardless what anyone says, is absolutely yes.

Multiboxing severely limits the need for other players, because lets be honest, (example)NO ONE is a better whm for me, than myself, and that's true for everyone. If it were "impossible" to multi box, there would be a MUCH larger outcry for merges.

But as it stands it's better to pay more money, to control more party members, than to rely on randoms. (plus it increases your income pretty dramatically, just sayin).

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Originally Posted by Vae

Multiboxing severely limits the need for other players, because lets be honest, (example)NO ONE is a better whm for me, than myself, and that's true for everyone.

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You need some better WHM linkshell mates/friends if you're able to outplay them while multiboxing.

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Originally Posted by Vae

But as it stands it's better to pay more money, to control more party members, than to rely on randoms. (plus it increases your income pretty dramatically, just sayin).

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This right here is the real crux of the matter, someone in your position is more likely to settle for multiboxed characters, regardless of how well they play the role, because you're after the almighty gil.

It's not just gil, you are allowed to farm items for your own use as well. Multiplying your intake of items like alexandrite, plutons, etc cuts your farming time down by the same amount, which makes stuff like REM much more attainable goals for those who prefer to farm their own progress (which would be the main reason I started dual boxing myself.)

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Originally Posted by Nyarlko

It's not just gil, you are allowed to farm items for your own use as well. Multiplying your intake of items like alexandrite, plutons, etc cuts your farming time down by the same amount, which makes stuff like REM much more attainable goals for those who prefer to farm their own progress (which would be the main reason I started dual boxing myself.)

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It's the same thing in the end, we're selfish and would rather have an easier time than a more rewarding one. Who cares to socialize and/or compete with 5,000 other players when they believe they can more easily obtain their personal goals with 300? Anything that may possibly present a tougher time - and Ambuscade has become the easiest scapegoat here - also presents itself as a reason against server merges. It's really unfortunate, but we're living in a time where more and more people just want to have things done their way, screw the greater good.

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

It's the same thing in the end, we're selfish and would rather have an easier time than a more rewarding one. Who cares to socialize and/or compete with 5,000 other players when they believe they can more easily obtain their personal goals with 300? Anything that may possibly present a tougher time - and Ambuscade has become the easiest scapegoat here - also presents itself as a reason against server merges. It's really unfortunate, but we're living in a time where more and more people just want to have things done their way, screw the greater good.

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If other players were as competent as I am, I wouldn't have to multibox everything, I mean it's that simple. I trust myself to cure myself and na myself waaaaaaay more than some half afk random who hates being on whm, but everyone told him to gear it to get content.

I would certainly rather pay less money and take people who care enough to be average or better. It's just not an option.

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

It's the same thing in the end, we're selfish and would rather have an easier time than a more rewarding one. Who cares to socialize and/or compete with 5,000 other players when they believe they can more easily obtain their personal goals with 300? Anything that may possibly present a tougher time - and Ambuscade has become the easiest scapegoat here - also presents itself as a reason against server merges. It's really unfortunate, but we're living in a time where more and more people just want to have things done their way, screw the greater good.

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I've played a long time, and the reason many of my friends left was the tedium of farming alexandrite, currency, salvage plans, etc. Even though we had linkshells devoted to activities, people got burned out doing the same thing over with folks painfully slowly getting what they needed till in the end, there were too few left to farm. The ability for folks to finally be able to work for the items they want with smaller groups has made things better. Unfortunately, we lost a lot of good players by the time SE starting making things better.

btw - I don't multi-box and the friends I currently play with don't multi-box, but I have grouped with people who multi-boxed and understand why some do. People don't have all the time in the world and it's understandable that they want to see some results from all the time they do put in. It's not selfish. People pay to enjoy a game the way they want to, not the way you want them to. Personally, I have never been in a rush to get everything, so I do miss the days when we grouped for everything, but so many things are better than they used to be. More choice is good.

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Originally Posted by Vae

If other players were as competent as I am, I wouldn't have to multibox everything, I mean it's that simple. I trust myself to cure myself and na myself waaaaaaay more than some half afk random who hates being on whm, but everyone told him to gear it to get content.

I would certainly rather pay less money and take people who care enough to be average or better. It's just not an option.

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Why do you think that is?

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Originally Posted by kylani

I've played a long time, and the reason many of my friends left was the tedium of farming alexandrite, currency, salvage plans, etc. Even though we had linkshells devoted to activities, people got burned out doing the same thing over with folks painfully slowly getting what they needed till in the end, there were too few left to farm. The ability for folks to finally be able to work for the items they want with smaller groups has made things better. Unfortunately, we lost a lot of good players by the time SE starting making things better.

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The more things change the more they stay the same. Today we still have the tedium of farming alexandrite and other REM currencies on top of Ambuscade. I imagine the active population is going to take a major hit over the next three months without some major changes/additions planned.

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Originally Posted by kylani

btw - I don't multi-box and the friends I currently play with don't multi-box, but I have grouped with people who multi-boxed and understand why some do. People don't have all the time in the world and it's understandable that they want to see some results from all the time they do put in. It's not selfish. People pay to enjoy a game the way they want to, not the way you want them to. Personally, I have never been in a rush to get everything, so I do miss the days when we grouped for everything, but so many things are better than they used to be. More choice is good.

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Case in point.

We don't have more choice, we have less.

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

Case in point.

We don't have more choice, we have less.

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No, you still have a choice. You can still group. Now you're just not forced to find a group for every single thing you do. I was a red mage at a time when you just had to pop on the server and get invites because 'every' group had to have a red mage. Sadly, the cookie cutter job mentality may be the biggest problem FFXI has. I remember how bad it was for the jobs that weren't tank, healer, refresher. I nostalgically miss the old days, but it doesn't mean it was perfect. If it were, people wouldn't have gotten so burnt out and left.

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Originally Posted by kylani

No, you still have a choice. You can still group. Now you're just not forced to find a group for every single thing you do. I was a red mage at a time when you just had to pop on the server and get invites because 'every' group had to have a red mage. Sadly, the cookie cutter job mentality may be the biggest problem FFXI has. I remember how bad it was for the jobs that weren't tank, healer, refresher. I nostalgically miss the old days, but it doesn't mean it was perfect. If it were, people wouldn't have gotten so burnt out and left.

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The irony here is that your point was that more choice is good, yet we're in a thread about server merges where that point is being shot down. More people open up more possibilities. More linkshells, more parties, more jobs of every kind, more crafters, a more active economy, more reasons for the dev team to expand Ambuscade past just the one zone and return to creating content for an open world rather than "instanced" content that isn't instanced at all.

People saw how bad the Ambuscade wait times were when it was first introduced and they don't want to go back to that again because, sadly, it has become the most popular part of the game. I've seen people play as many as seven characters at the same time so they can obtain their REM weapons as fast as possible. Do you honestly think those types of people care about healthy servers? Actual people would get in their way, slowing down their progress so they're all against the idea of larger server populations, nevermind the fact they could use those seven characters to make gil by other means and just buy their weapons instead. Everyone just wants things their way, screw everyone else, which isn't far off from what you said a couple of posts up. How about we all go back to wanting things the way they were meant to be: "Enter an online community of thousands of players from the US and Japan"

Multi-boxing also makes things possible that would otherwise not happen at all. 2-3 people can tackle a lot more content when you have a pocket healer/support.

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Originally Posted by detlef

Multi-boxing also makes things possible that would otherwise not happen at all. 2-3 people can tackle a lot more content when you have a pocket healer/support.

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Why wouldn't those things happen at all? Why not bring an actual person to play support/healer instead of a dual-boxed account?

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

Why wouldn't those things happen at all? Why not bring an actual person to play support/healer instead of a dual-boxed account?

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Are you always able to find a player on the right job at the right time who is interested in the event you want to do?

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Originally Posted by detlef

Are you always able to find a player on the right job at the right time who is interested in the event you want to do?

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It's easy enough on a server like Asura. It would be even easier if people stopped playing into that "less is more" mentality, giving the dev team the impression that peak server sizes of 250 to 800 accounts aren't just acceptable, but preferred.

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

It's easy enough on a server like Asura. It would be even easier if people stopped playing into that "less is more" mentality, giving the dev team the impression that peak server sizes of 250 to 800 accounts aren't just acceptable, but preferred.

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If the game had standards, that'd work. You can't count on randoms sometimes, they're just plan bad. The game needs a way to verify you're at least capable of performing at a tolerable level.

Yes, that's unfair, but if every event I ever did took an extra 5 minutes cause one player was bad, I'd have lost an EXTRA year of my life on this.

I don't play on Asura. I've heard there are other people who also don't play on Asura. If they are unhappy with the state of the game, I suppose these people could transfer to Asura and have their problems completely solved as you say, but maybe they don't view the game exactly as you do. Well I'm sure they'll do what's best for them.

Oh, and could you please outline the "less is more" mentality in greater detail? I think you're going to blame the mentality solely on the playerbase and I'd love to see you do that. Please follow that up by explaining how the players are the reason why server merges haven't happened yet. In the meantime, I will do my best to get by on my Podunk server.

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Originally Posted by Vae

If the game had standards, that'd work. You can't count on randoms sometimes, they're just plan bad. The game needs a way to verify you're at least capable of performing at a tolerable level.

Yes, that's unfair, but if every event I ever did took an extra 5 minutes cause one player was bad, I'd have lost an EXTRA year of my life on this.

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Join a linkshell or create one that's made up of players that meet your standards? I can't imagine that's asking for much, which is why I tend to believe you'd stick to multiboxing regardless of whether or not the requisite number and quality of players were around for you to pool from. You don't have to share with a second account. I'm not sure why people are afraid to fess up to this. I've done it plenty of times myself and I'm not going to pretend it's because there weren't decent players around to help me.

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Originally Posted by detlef

I don't play on Asura. I've heard there are other people who also don't play on Asura. If they are unhappy with the state of the game, I suppose these people could transfer to Asura and have their problems completely solved as you say, but maybe they don't view the game exactly as you do. Well I'm sure they'll do what's best for them.

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I didn't say moving servers would solve everyone's problems, that's ridiculous and you know it.

You present the idea that a party of 2-3 people can tackle a lot more content with a dual boxed account tagging along in a support/healing job which implies a number of things, including the possibility that you find it difficult to put together a competent party of 3-4 players on your server. If that's the case, why is it so?

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Originally Posted by detlef

Oh, and could you please outline the "less is more" mentality in greater detail? I think you're going to blame the mentality solely on the playerbase and I'd love to see you do that. Please follow that up by explaining how the players are the reason why server merges haven't happened yet. In the meantime, I will do my best to get by on my Podunk server.

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Well, now that I've wiped the sarcasm off my screen... it's right there in the first reply to the OP. The blame goes both ways or are you suggesting that's not the case?

These games are run like businesses and, like most businesses, if the customers are unhappy with the product the developers can choose to do something about it or not. The developers behind the game, at some point, became far more receptive to customer feedback, hence the creation of these forums and the staff's (albeit limited) participation. They probably don't pay much attention to other forums, but they do read what goes on here and let me tell you, if I was on the development team and I made my decisions based off the feedback received here there isn't a chance in hell I'd want to go to the trouble of merging servers either - there's too much push back against it. In a perfect world everyone playing the game would make their voices heard here and you could say, without a shadow of a doubt, whether or not the existing subscribers would tolerate server merges, as well as whether or not the larger server(s) would draw back both old and new customers, but that's not the case, not even close. So here we are, using personal preference to argue for/against server merges, some of us wanting the game to go back to being the large scale, challenging open world it once was and others preferring it stays small/easy.

I hated the idea of paying a monthly subscription fee to play an MMORPG with thousands of other people, but I gave it a chance and fell in love with it back in 2004. I've seen my server go from supporting over 8,000 simultaneous accounts down to a pitiful 250, forcing me to move because I want to be part of something more than a ghost town. There are probably a decent amount of newer players among us that didn't ask for that, who enjoy playing in solitude or with a small group of friends on a quieter server, but I'm just not one of them. In this case, bigger is definitely better - a-holes, crowded CP camps, overflowing auction houses and everything that may come with it. Variety, inherent with larger populations, keeps things interesting, so I'll keep pushing for server merges even now that I'm on Asura.

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Originally Posted by detlef

Multi-boxing also makes things possible that would otherwise not happen at all. 2-3 people can tackle a lot more content when you have a pocket healer/support.

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It actually helps with quite a bit. I never really understood the allure of multi-boxing till we had a fellow in our linkshell with a pocket WHM. He was a fun and helpful guy, always willing to join in and help others. He pulled out his other account when needed, and it was very helpful with farming items for our ls members. Nowadays, it may be easy to farm umbral marrows, but back when we farmed them for members who needed them, it took a bit of effort. We had 8 with his pocket whm, and it was pretty helpful to put his WHM in the alliance as an extra healer. I'd change groups after singing songs to join his WHM, so while he helped heal, I balladed him to keep his mana up and helped with what I could. Even for events that were popular when we shouted for members like Delve and Voidwatch, his whm would help when there was room in one of the groups. I can think of many events he made better by being so flexible.

I wouldn't want to go thru the hassle, but I can understand folks who do. It certainly was very nice having him in our ls.

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Originally Posted by detlef

Multi-boxing also makes things possible that would otherwise not happen at all. 2-3 people can tackle a lot more content when you have a pocket healer/support.

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^ I agree.

The addition of a dualboxed BLM cuts my old soloing times as BST by more than 1/2, and they weren't overly long to begin with. For stuff that is magic resistant, I switch the alt to GEO and cut my times by more than 1/2 by neutering the mob and switching to a physical damage trust team. My soloing go-to/default strategy is Patrick-Fusion > Fire MB from trusts. Replacing a trust w/ a real BLM or GEO allows me to safely/reliably/quickly run other players thru Escha-Zitah T1s on a single radialens. Downside where?
I've done this many times for newer ls members to get them a starting foundation for vorseals and hopefully pick up at least a couple of useful drops for them along the way. Just because I like to help newbies. Dual-boxing has made it even easier to help. Again, downside where?

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The impression I got from the AMA was not that server merges are not happening because of account numbers, but because there hasn't been a widespread enough crying out from the player base in favor of them. If what the devs are hearing is not "Server merge my server please!" from a large chunk of that server's population, then they probably aren't likely to do one, citing the "If it Ain't Broke..." concept.

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Originally Posted by Nyarlko

The addition of a dualboxed BLM cuts my old soloing times as BST by more than 1/2, and they weren't overly long to begin with. For stuff that is magic resistant, I switch the alt to GEO and cut my times by more than 1/2 by neutering the mob and switching to a physical damage trust team. My soloing go-to/default strategy is Patrick-Fusion > Fire MB from trusts. Replacing a trust w/ a real BLM or GEO allows me to safely/reliably/quickly run other players thru Escha-Zitah T1s on a single radialens. Downside where?

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The downside is that you have to settle for a dual boxed account at all and couldn't find an actual person to help you make your job even easier than the second account did, not to mention the $13+/month and inability to play both accounts to their full potential. I don't know about the rest of you, but I find logging into an MMORPG and interacting with other people far more interesting than interacting with my second account.

Let's be real here, multiboxing offers a number of advantages, especially to those of us who would rather avoid contact with other human beings, are stuck on servers where help is hard to find or because you want a bigger piece of the proverbial pie. Those second, third and however many accounts will not, however, ever play better than your friend/linkshell mate/elite a-hole you might be scared to talk to and if they do, well, this is where I would say communication helps bridge the gap. MMORPGs are social in nature, at least those that pre-date WoW. If you want to go it alone or with as few human players as possible you're free to pay for as many accounts as you want, just make sure to offer more than a quick win to those players you're guiding through Zitah or they may wind up becoming the incompetent players some of you in here will replace by a second account down the line.

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

The downside is that you have to settle for a dual boxed account at all and couldn't find an actual person to help you make your job even easier than the second account did, not to mention the $13+/month and inability to play both accounts to their full potential. I don't know about the rest of you, but I find logging into an MMORPG and interacting with other people far more interesting than interacting with my second account.

Let's be real here, multiboxing offers a number of advantages, especially to those of us who would rather avoid contact with other human beings, are stuck on servers where help is hard to find or because you want a bigger piece of the proverbial pie. Those second, third and however many accounts will not, however, ever play better than your friend/linkshell mate/elite a-hole you might be scared to talk to and if they do, well, this is where I would say communication helps bridge the gap. MMORPGs are social in nature, at least those that pre-date WoW. If you want to go it alone or with as few human players as possible you're free to pay for as many accounts as you want, just make sure to offer more than a quick win to those players you're guiding through Zitah or they may wind up becoming the incompetent players some of you in here will replace by a second account down the line.

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I'm having quite enough fun playing both, both are well-geared (though not many BIS) and has nothing to do w/ "couldn't find an actual person" and more w/ "double rewards/drops and their ALL MINE BWAHAHA" XD (Basically means I really just don't buy upgrade items for the most part. Only thing I farm for gil is Legion.)

I also have no issues playing w/ others, and having 2x BLM w/ Death, a well-tuned self-SC+MB duo, and/or an extra GEO on tap help my linkshells as well. ^^

When I run people thru zitah t1s, its meant to be a fast n cheap way to give them a leg up to be able to join in on LS events, but I also always advise them to pay attention to what the mobs are doing so they have a clue next time they do the fight w/ someone other than me's. (Also, they are always LS members, so not exactly like I'm going to abandon them like a merc would after getting them some gear.)

The only downside that I can agree to is the extra subscription fee. The enjoyment and benefits I get from running a 2nd account on my backup laptop tho is most definitely worth it to me. ^^

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Originally Posted by Nyarlko

I'm having quite enough fun playing both, both are well-geared (though not many BIS) and has nothing to do w/ "couldn't find an actual person" and more w/ "double rewards/drops and their ALL MINE BWAHAHA" XD (Basically means I really just don't buy upgrade items for the most part. Only thing I farm for gil is Legion.)

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Right, that's been my point all along - the choice to play multiple characters instead of having people fill those roles often comes down to greed, the fact that we can collect more gear/items for only slightly more effort is very appealing and if more people could do it they most likely would, too. It's unfortunate and another reason I look back to the early days with fondness, despite how unforgiving the game was back then.

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Originally Posted by Nyarlko

When I run people thru zitah t1s, its meant to be a fast n cheap way to give them a leg up to be able to join in on LS events, but I also always advise them to pay attention to what the mobs are doing so they have a clue next time they do the fight w/ someone other than me's. (Also, they are always LS members, so not exactly like I'm going to abandon them like a merc would after getting them some gear.)

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Well, credit where credit is due, it's good to know that you're doing more than just dropping gear/vorseals in their laps.

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Originally Posted by Nyarlko

]The only downside that I can agree to is the extra subscription fee. The enjoyment and benefits I get from running a 2nd account on my backup laptop tho is most definitely worth it to me. ^^

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Out of curiosity, if given the choice, would you consider sticking to one account if you could fill its role in your parties with a new/existing LS member at all times or are the benefits too great to give up the second account?

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

Right, that's been my point all along - the choice to play multiple characters instead of having people fill those roles often comes down to greed, the fact that we can collect more gear/items for only slightly more effort is very appealing and if more people could do it they most likely would, too. It's unfortunate and another reason I look back to the early days with fondness, despite how unforgiving the game was back then.

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Greed was admittedly a major reason for why I started dualboxing. I should note that if I was not dualboxing now, then I would be soloing the same content anyway, so no harm done to anyone. At this point though, I keep doing it because it's actually fun in addition to being profitable. Also, you shouldn't think of it as "replacing a player" so much as "replacing a trust". In group situations where using both my accounts would exclude another player, I will happily leave one idling in Mog House. (Usually my main these days as well since she has majority of content cleared already.) If it's solo/lowman content, it harms no one for me to bring both if that means that success is more likely for the group as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

Out of curiosity, if given the choice, would you consider sticking to one account if you could fill its role in your parties with a new/existing LS member at all times or are the benefits too great to give up the second account?

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Nope. My second account is already geared better than a lot of BLM/GEO players and knowing that I'll never miss a SC+MB timing window alone is more than enough to make it worthwhile to play both for stuff like Gaes Fete, farming crafting mats, etc. The benefits of dualboxing are too great to give up without a good reason to do so, especially since the vast majority of the time, dualboxing isn't going to mean that someone else gets benched. The only time I am going to be reluctant to replace my dbox w/ another player would be if that player would actually be dead weight due to gear, lack of JP which causes a lack of key spells/abilities, or fight mechanics being anti-melee and they refuse to level any other jobs in order to be useful to groups AND it's something that the group can't carry someone else thru easily.

I'll jump at the chance to help someone who has put in effort already and found that they need help to complete something. I'm not quite altruistic enough to happily enable someone else just being lazy and/or a non-contributor towards group success. ^^;;

Here's a simple response:

Windower is third party and the only way to multibox is to use Windower. The question here is should SE issue banhammer for those using third party tools? They can run a check to prevent cheating at the startup, it would thin the people out enough to bring the servers together. However, that would reduce the population a ton, which IMO would do more harm.

In short, SE is seeing the end of days unless they do some shit to bring this game to life. Content isn't what is needed. It's a campaign initative to make the game cheaper, more player friendly while being team oriented, as well as bring it back into what made it a Final Fantasy--the adventure. They focused too much on the grinding that people lost what the goal of the game was. I have been playing back in 2003, and I might need to remind you all that the game was very difficult back then. But I made friends that lasted forever. I knew these people and they knew me. The server was one unit, one being. But now that has deminished due to how easy the game is now. People lost the idea of Unity.

SE needs to bring back the old mechanics or create new ones that forces people to play strategically--not just throwing bodies at the problem. I want to see AOE wipes, I want to see CS Stun, rotating chiblasts, Sams rotating in and out to SC. I miss this play style. Each job had their specific role. We need to revive this. It's not hard to do, and they could do this in so many ways that doesn't affect any current content.

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Originally Posted by Seish

Windower is third party and the only way to multibox is to use Windower.

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This is incorrect. I have three 40 inch tv sets in my bedroom, my wife plays on one pc, I on another and the tv in between us is for our alt account as we had been using xbox initially for that account until migrating it to pc. While using three xbox controllers is indeed inconvenient its 100% doable as I've done far too many times.

That said, I'm certain that well over half of the population of xi likely use Windower, if SE were to cancel their accounts and their subsequent mule accounts they may as well shut down xi as it's already on its last legs and they cant "afford" another mass ban - even if your reasoning is valid for them to do so.

If people didn't level jobs from 1-99 in one day, equip their ambuscade gear and think they can play a job perhaps the need for multi accounts wouldn't be there however that is the way people roll in 2016.

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Originally Posted by Seish

In short, SE is seeing the end of days unless they do some **** to bring this game to life. Content isn't what is needed. It's a campaign initative to make the game cheaper, more player friendly while being team oriented, as well as bring it back into what made it a Final Fantasy--the adventure.

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SE needs to get this game back into stores any way possible with lots and lots of advertisement, a new expansion with new zones and new mobs that are not recycled re-re-repeated mobs and include re-skinned images (bring back orig smn avatars that bogged down PS1 players for example). This game needs NEW BLOOD not just people that miss the game and come back for occasionally visiting for a few months here and there. Expand or die.

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Originally Posted by Nyarlko

The benefits of dualboxing are too great to give up without a good reason to do so, especially since the vast majority of the time, dualboxing isn't going to mean that someone else gets benched. The only time I am going to be reluctant to replace my dbox w/ another player would be if that player would actually be dead weight due to gear, lack of JP which causes a lack of key spells/abilities, or fight mechanics being anti-melee and they refuse to level any other jobs in order to be useful to groups AND it's something that the group can't carry someone else thru easily.

I'll jump at the chance to help someone who has put in effort already and found that they need help to complete something. I'm not quite altruistic enough to happily enable someone else just being lazy and/or a non-contributor towards group success. ^^;;

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That's more than fair and refreshingly honest.

I asked - and I didn't mean to single you out, it was more a question for anyone reading - because at this point in the game the divide between the more hardcore/"elite" players and newer, more casual ones is wider than it's ever been and it's wreaking havoc on player retention. The social/casual LS -> mid-tier LS with scheduled events -> HNMLS ladder of the pre-Abyssea days helped people become better players every step of the way. A HNMLS could break 100 members back then with a fairly wide spectrum of skill within it, offering new recruits with an appetite to learn a great opportunity to do so. While that still happens today, everything is on a much smaller scale, including the linkshells, the level of skill between its players and their willingness to recruit.

It was a lot easier for a player, casual or hardcore, to find a linkshell they could call home in the 75 era if only because there were a lot more options available. The same goes for those simply seeking a little help with the odd quest or item, their options go from slim to none on servers that top out at 300 active players during peak hours. Those of us multiboxing our way through Vagary and collecting Aeonics don't spend a second thinking about it because we're getting by just fine, but those players we're losing could have eventually made it to the end game scene and made all of our lives a little easier if only we were a little more willing to lend a hand.

It doesn't look like SE is all that interested in keeping this ship sailing for much longer and, that being the case, I firmly believe large scale server merges along with some other quick and easy changes (adding more monsters to old zones, adjusting respawn timers/levels/drops) are the best course of action. An empty server shouldn't be a memory of any Final Fantasy XI player... unless they're reminiscing about the time they were first to log in after a maintenance and claimed Nidhogg.

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Originally Posted by Seish

In short, SE is seeing the end of days unless they do some shit to bring this game to life. Content isn't what is needed. It's a campaign initative to make the game cheaper, more player friendly while being team oriented, as well as bring it back into what made it a Final Fantasy--the adventure. They focused too much on the grinding that people lost what the goal of the game was. I have been playing back in 2003, and I might need to remind you all that the game was very difficult back then. But I made friends that lasted forever. I knew these people and they knew me. The server was one unit, one being. But now that has deminished due to how easy the game is now. People lost the idea of Unity.

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I like you... except for the whole banning Windower thing. Adding new content is still important, but given the state of the game and SE's apparent unwillingness to keep investing money into it I'd be happy enough if they could just update old content so it reflected the times. I shouldn't have to sit around waiting 15 minute for Aerns to repop in 2016, for example - monster respawn timers shouldn't be longer than 5 minutes anywhere in the game.

The point you made about adventure is spot on as well and since it seems new art/models aren't a possibility anymore that could be handled via the introduction of higher level monsters in older zones, similar to how they were added to dungeons for Grounds of Valor. Shuffling monsters around, adding "new" ones (same skins, just maybe different sizes, names and levels) and adding sought after drops with low drop rates (plutons, beitetusu, boulders, alexandrite or whatever else to add variety to the way those REM items are farmed) would be a simple way to draw interest back to areas no one ever visits anymore. Vana'diel is massive in size and there's still a lot that can be done even with the skeleton crew left working on it.

Finally, the whole "make the game cheaper" thing is something that SE really needs to take a look at. The expansions are overpriced on their own, especially the mini expansions at $10 each. I don't expect to see the subscription price drop since they just added $4 for some wardrobe space, but how do you justify three mini expansions costing the same as the entire collection? I would think lowering their individual prices might do more to increase revenue than hurt it at this point.

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Originally Posted by Jile

SE needs to get this game back into stores any way possible with lots and lots of advertisement, a new expansion with new zones and new mobs that are not recycled re-re-repeated mobs and include re-skinned images (bring back orig smn avatars that bogged down PS1 players for example). This game needs NEW BLOOD not just people that miss the game and come back for occasionally visiting for a few months here and there. Expand or die.

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Careful, you'll anger all those living in paradise on their quiet servers.

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Originally Posted by Seish

Here's a simple response:

Windower is third party and the only way to multibox is to use Windower. The question here is should SE issue banhammer for those using third party tools? They can run a check to prevent cheating at the startup, it would thin the people out enough to bring the servers together. However, that would reduce the population a ton, which IMO would do more harm.

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Two laptops. :3 /panic when required to bounce between keyboards during hectic fights. Enjoy the satisfaction of success after said /panicking that I just did something by myself that I could never have done "solo". (This is also one of the reasons I tend to focus on job combos that have one active and one more passive.) It can be done without any sort of anything outside of the client. Please don't equate "multi-boxer" with "cheater".

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Originally Posted by Seish

SE needs to bring back the old mechanics or create new ones that forces people to play strategically--not just throwing bodies at the problem. I want to see AOE wipes, I want to see CS Stun, rotating chiblasts, Sams rotating in and out to SC. I miss this play style. Each job had their specific role. We need to revive this. It's not hard to do, and they could do this in so many ways that doesn't affect any current content.

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AOE wipes happen regularly, just look at the issues on using melee on higher tier endgame content. That would be one of the big reasons that melee generally seem unwelcome on 140+ fights. The "specific roles" you mentioned were pretty boring tbh. ^^;; It wasn't that engaging to spam Boost for several minutes on the sidelines before doing something to the target. CS Stun didn't exactly take a lot of higher brain functions to spam your stun macro. I think some of the reasons those things have gone away for the most part are changes in the playerbase not wanting to do those things anymore due to efficiency, and current content frequently feeling like a race against gimmicks and/or the clock (which increases the priority level of group efficiency.) I think that it might be possible to bring in more variety of playstyle back into the mix if they at least increased the timer on Gaes Fete fights to 30min for instance. Most fights nowadays are far simpler to try to bruteforce down something ASAP than deal with extended TPmove/AOE spam, adds, or level up mechanics, but there are still some that it could be possible to chip away at w/o any sort of enrage timer looming.

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Originally Posted by Nyarlko

I think that it might be possible to bring in more variety of playstyle back into the mix if they at least increased the timer on Gaes Fete fights to 30min for instance. Most fights nowadays are far simpler to try to bruteforce down something ASAP than deal with extended TPmove/AOE spam, adds, or level up mechanics, but there are still some that it could be possible to chip away at w/o any sort of enrage timer looming.

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This is veering a little off topic, but I'm a big proponent of bringing the focus of MMORPGs back to open world design and Geas Fete isn't quite that, as you touched upon - as soon as you pop that NM everyone/everything outside of your party disappears and they can't do anything to help/hurt you or even engage the NM should your party wipe. Aggro, links, AoE, out of party heals... it's all stuff that added a little extra spice/strategy to fights. The game has become too sterile, where player interaction is practically frowned upon outside of towns. It's part of why the genre has been in decline, too much time is spent worrying about how to make the game easier for the casual/mainstream market and not enough spent worrying about how to make the world more interesting. Give the players the tools and let them choose whether they want to use them for good or evil. Breaking the Terms of Service is one thing, but choosing to watch a party wipe or, conversely, raising/healing/joining them is a completely different story and one that helps build character, the kind of character building we don't see much of anymore these days because of the way the game has changed.

I think the 15-30 min timers currently in place are fair, but I would love to see them go back to open world fights where the NMs begin to rage when their timers expire and should you wipe, anyone happening to be around would be free to claim before it depops.

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

Aggro, links, AoE, out of party heals... it's all stuff that added a little extra spice/strategy to fights.
............
I think the 15-30 min timers currently in place are fair, but I would love to see them go back to open world fights where the NMs begin to rage when their timers expire and should you wipe, anyone happening to be around would be free to claim before it depops.

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All of those things were potential risks with little reward. I have absolutely no desire to go back to the days of curebomb claim-stealing, MPKing, and HNM camping for days on end (only to watch a bot get the claim before it even spawns.) ^^;;

I believe that all Geas Fete timers are 15min, which I think should be increased to 30min to allow for turtling or wipe/reset/recover, at least for T2+ since pops tend to be expensive or difficult to acquire. This would allow for learning and experimentation with group compositions, which would be a good thing IMO. I may be a dualboxer, but would be overjoyed if removing some of the roadblocks would allow for more players to learn the content, even if that means leaving one of my accounts at home to make room for one more.

I don't multibox, I also don't want server merges because if there's more than just me + whoever I'm playing with at doing any content in the game the game immediately gets frustrating. It's kind of the design of the game that makes a lot of people NOT want to be on populated servers. Everything just gets annoying and tedious when you have to deal with a single other person there. It's multiplied by the fact that it's so easy to solo lots of stuff now, in a game originally designed around needing 5 other people to leave a major city without dying.

Ambuscade "instance limit" is hilarious, I've had to wait multiple minutes to be allowed to enter when there wasn't even TEN people inside the zone and only 2 groups. That's insane, buy some better servers, SE.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

I don't multibox, I also don't want server merges because if there's more than just me + whoever I'm playing with at doing any content in the game the game immediately gets frustrating. It's kind of the design of the game that makes a lot of people NOT want to be on populated servers. Everything just gets annoying and tedious when you have to deal with a single other person there. It's multiplied by the fact that it's so easy to solo lots of stuff now, in a game originally designed around needing 5 other people to leave a major city without dying.

Ambuscade "instance limit" is hilarious, I've had to wait multiple minutes to be allowed to enter when there wasn't even TEN people inside the zone and only 2 groups. That's insane, buy some better servers, SE.

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Initially I was against server merges and more populated servers but I got fed up with standing around and nothing happening on a dead server. Sometimes there would be one shout in the entire day.

A quiet server is good if you like to do things on your own (which I think defeats the object of a MMORPG), or have a good bunch of friends to do stuff with at a time that suits you all.

I decided to take the risk and move to Asura which has 4x5 more the population than most servers. I don't regret this choice - There are countless shouts and stuff going on, I can just sit in town a literately pick and choose what I want to join, or I could just go out and solo stuff if I want to. It makes for more varied and better gaming experience, and I see little negative points to it.