Master trials are a waste of dev time

A ton of work went into those cosmetic weapons, making and testing the battlefield etc.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...GfNEsNmNGBiVz7

Nobody does them, stop adding these things.

Like 1/3 of the update was master trials and like 1 -2 groups did the last one. If we have to have small updates please don't waste so much of it on stuff like this that barely anyone does.

Part of it is they make them so hard and you have to spend a ton of merits it's not worth the time or gil from merits in the slightest... if a normal group of people could beat them reasonably maybe but instead we get fights only 1 or 2 groups in the entire game have beaten for a purely cosmetic item

It gives end game players something to do, and they're cool fights I like them. The lack of motivation to do them is in my opinion directly tied to the rewards. While they are amazing lockstyles, they are just lockstyles and only for sword using jobs. Unless rewards that you can use toward other in game goals are also included in the drops then I don't think it will gather traction quickly. (Things like linen's etc in enough quantity to justify the battle requirements).

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Originally Posted by Fae

It gives end game players something to do, and they're cool fights I like them. The lack of motivation to do them is in my opinion directly tied to the rewards. While they are amazing lockstyles, they are just lockstyles and only for sword using jobs. Unless rewards that you can use toward other in game goals are also included in the drops then I don't think it will gather traction quickly. (Things like linen's etc in enough quantity to justify the battle requirements).

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Look how much effort went into them and how few people did them. More effort went into these master trials than ambuscade, lets see how many do each one and compare.

You say you like them, did you even attempt them?

I think super-difficult and exclusive content probably doesn't have a place in this game at this point. If the reward is very good weapons and/or gear then people are going to complain that they can't do it. If the reward is cosmetic or a title, people will complain that it's not worth doing. And that's not even getting into the mechanics of the fight itself, the job exclusivity of a 6-man fights, or the entry fee.

I don't think the devs can win, so they're probably better off spending their time developing content that a far wider range of players can partake in.

I don't have my panties in a knot about this content cause I have lots to do if I feel like playing but I do think it is a rather curious thing to put dev time into considering how little is being added each month.

Couldn't agree more, seems to be a substantial portion of development effort, that almost nobody cares about, and even less both care about and have the capability to do. When something is taking 30% of your development and applies to 1% of your population, it's an issue :/

I know for sure there are a lot more people who would be bothering to do these master trials if the rewards were worth it. It is a curious decision to make these lockstyle weapons the only reward for such demanding content. I mean, the swords are very cool-looking, but it's just not enough to motivate players to work at these fights.

The cost alone isn't even worth it. I don't want to spend 500 merits to go learn how to do something.

Even if the rewards were good. I can't imagine what it would take to be so good to be worth the 7 rounds of merit farming that a single run takes.

And yeah, I don't have the inventory space for silly lockstyle weapons.

just make them something like 10 JP for entry item instead of 250 merits since we have nothing to spend excess JP on after we master a job anyway

Also since they don't seem to get the point of cosmetics, much of the reason people want cosmetics is to show them off to other people. They act like designer labels irl.

A cosmetic that can only be seen during battle is losing the majority of the reason people want to own them, the blade should be visible all the time if you really want them to be desired. I can't believe they don't get that.

As an example, if the old VW bodies with the glow only glowed during battle most of the people who got them would not of done so. I grinded for nearly a year to get the 3 jeuno VW bodies when this content was relevent, and it was mainly just for the glow.

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Originally Posted by Castanica

Also since they don't seem to get the point of cosmetics, much of the reason people want cosmetics is to show them off to other people. They act like designer labels irl.

A cosmetic that can only be seen during battle is losing the majority of the reason people want to own them, the blade should be visible all the time if you really want them to be desired. I can't believe they don't get that.

As an example, if the old VW bodies with the glow only glowed during battle most of the people who got them would not of done so. I grinded for nearly a year to get the 3 jeuno VW bodies when this content was relevent, and it was mainly just for the glow.

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I'm fairly sure most people got the VW stuff because the gear was, well..useful for most players doing it at the time.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

I'm fairly sure most people got the VW stuff because the gear was, well..useful for most players doing it at the time.

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Indeed. Never cared about glowing like half the people on the server. I got Heka's Kalisiris, Mekira Mekogai and Toci's Harness because they were amazing pieces.

Same, VW, to me, was about the gear, also /jelly, I never got Toci's though I wanted it very bad, though I got most of the bodies I wanted, to be fair, but I never cared at all whether they glowed or not.

Yeah, they need to fix the reward system. They should drop things liked cat's eyes, or super dense bayld cluster, etc. to warrant their difficulty. If they're going to make new content, they need to make it useful in some way, no one cares about reward-less content. If anything this master trial system is proving this.

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Originally Posted by Selindrile

Same, VW, to me, was about the gear, also /jelly, I never got Toci's though I wanted it very bad, though I got most of the bodies I wanted, to be fair, but I never cared at all whether they glowed or not.

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I got them all but Hekas... which was the one I wanted most, of course

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Originally Posted by Castanica

Look how much effort went into them and how few people did them. More effort went into these master trials than ambuscade, lets see how many do each one and compare.

You say you like them, did you even attempt them?

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Actually yes :D Three attemtps and much theorycrafting and researching JP blogs for how to win and fun conversations and memories were had, it engaged me a lot. I think the fights are also well designed and fun even to go into and die. Since only the party leader needs the entry item also, the cost is not near what people think it is and it was just halved. I recommend anyone with some time to kill to farm up merits for 10-15 mins and buy one, then keep doing that and trade who buys the pop to enter. It's a fun diversion and while as I said before, RME mats as drops would be nice, after having multiple aeonics, and multiple mythics, and beaten tumult curator these trials are the only content in the game I haven't beaten. Others in both my ls's are wanting to beat these fights, but it's always pushed back for other goals b/c the rewards are lacking. I just like the aspect of it being there and making the game not feel so flat. It's really fun to do and it has been the source of many conversations and excitement at least with those I play with. The only other way to have ways to test our limits as players now is to try different setups, or redo stuff with less people. The intense ambuscades on VD and master trials are beyond aeonic t4 and the highest level unity NMs, the challenging content left. Someone said it appeals to 1%, I disagree, it is open to anyone with a master job to attempt which is much higher than 1%. Also, 95% of the game is already not challenging. I don't see why people want to take away what little content is being added on to the most challenging aspects of the game. People like things to use all their gil and items on, speaking for myself and several I play with. I think SE has done a great job lately of developing content for both starting, and endgame players as well as intermediate and hope the trend will continue.

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Originally Posted by detlef

I think super-difficult and exclusive content probably doesn't have a place in this game at this point. If the reward is very good weapons and/or gear then people are going to complain that they can't do it. If the reward is cosmetic or a title, people will complain that it's not worth doing. And that's not even getting into the mechanics of the fight itself, the job exclusivity of a 6-man fights, or the entry fee.

I don't think the devs can win, so they're probably better off spending their time developing content that a far wider range of players can partake in.

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I agree with about 90% of this post. You hit the nail right on the head when you said, in short, people will complain either way. Thats what 90% of my posts are about that get criticism: this game caters to those who don't want that real challenge. As for me, I love the challenging content. I wouldn't mind getting a lightsaber. If there weren't other challenges for me to focus on at the moment, I'd be all over master trials. I'd also laugh when we wiped, and see the bright side every time we did just a little better. The feeling I'd get when we finally won would be worth more than any piece of great gear you could throw in as a reward. I do realize, however, that I seem to be in the minority on this. I have 2 young adult sons that would feel the same way as most of the other people: " I want something I can be great at without the grind or I'm not interested!" and "give me something better than everyone else has since I beat content that they can't." I'm not trying to criticize this way of thinking, I'm just saying that its not my way.

And hey Fae: your group sounds like the type I'd LOVE to be in a linkshell with. If I wasn't already in one like that I would be hopping servers!

Greetings, everyone.

We realize that the implementation of Master Trials has been a largely discussed topic both here and on other forums, and we’ve been passing along your feedback to the development team.

In order to facilitate better discussion around this topic (and also to get more feedback for the team), I wanted to start by sharing the overall concept of this content.

Master Trials were created as difficult end-game content for those players who have just about completed all other aspects of the game and are looking for challenging content to tackle. However, this is not pointing to only right now, this goes for the future as well. While many are busy at the moment putting the finishing touches on their Aeonic weapons or completing other outstanding in-game goals, once those are done, the team would like Master Trials to exist as challenging content that you can take on when you are ready. The team is very aware that only a small population of players have been undertaking the challenge, and they feel that once more players have geared up and enhanced their characters further that this content will be challenged more frequently. Thus, with each version update lately, they have been gradually implementing new Master Trials so that they will exist in the future for players to take on when they are prepared to do so.

In regard to the rewards that Master Trials offers, to better fit the overall concept, the team decided to go the cosmetic route instead of including weapons (or other items) that can be put into use in battle so that they do not become the sole goal of completing this content.

Hopefully this serves to get a better grasp of how the development team views Master Trials, so with that said, we’re looking forward to further feedback and comments about this content.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings, everyone.

We realize that the implementation of Master Trials has been a largely discussed topic both here and on other forums, and we’ve been passing along your feedback to the development team.

In order to facilitate better discussion around this topic (and also to get more feedback for the team), I wanted to start by sharing the overall concept of this content.

Master Trials were created as difficult end-game content for those players who have just about completed all other aspects of the game and are looking for challenging content to tackle. However, this is not pointing to only right now, this goes for the future as well. While many are busy at the moment putting the finishing touches on their Aeonic weapons or completing other outstanding in-game goals, once those are done, the team would like Master Trials to exist as challenging content that you can take on when you are ready. The team is very aware that only a small population of players have been undertaking the challenge, and they feel that once more players have geared up and enhanced their characters further that this content will be challenged more frequently. Thus, with each version update lately, they have been gradually implementing new Master Trials so that they will exist in the future for players to take on when they are prepared to do so.

In regard to the rewards that Master Trials offers, to better fit the overall concept, the team decided to go the cosmetic route instead of including weapons (or other items) that can be put into use in battle so that they do not become the sole goal of completing this content.

Hopefully this serves to get a better grasp of how the development team views Master Trials, so with that said, we’re looking forward to further feedback and comments about this content.

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This makes sense. I don't necessarily agree with it. But can you please give them feedback to make the cost to participate JP and not Merits. Or at least have an option to choose between the two. Using merits AGAIN makes no sense since after master, JP have no use (as of right now).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings, everyone.

We realize that the implementation of Master Trials has been a largely discussed topic both here and on other forums, and we’ve been passing along your feedback to the development team.

In order to facilitate better discussion around this topic (and also to get more feedback for the team), I wanted to start by sharing the overall concept of this content.

Master Trials were created as difficult end-game content for those players who have just about completed all other aspects of the game and are looking for challenging content to tackle. However, this is not pointing to only right now, this goes for the future as well. While many are busy at the moment putting the finishing touches on their Aeonic weapons or completing other outstanding in-game goals, once those are done, the team would like Master Trials to exist as challenging content that you can take on when you are ready. The team is very aware that only a small population of players have been undertaking the challenge, and they feel that once more players have geared up and enhanced their characters further that this content will be challenged more frequently. Thus, with each version update lately, they have been gradually implementing new Master Trials so that they will exist in the future for players to take on when they are prepared to do so.

In regard to the rewards that Master Trials offers, to better fit the overall concept, the team decided to go the cosmetic route instead of including weapons (or other items) that can be put into use in battle so that they do not become the sole goal of completing this content.

Hopefully this serves to get a better grasp of how the development team views Master Trials, so with that said, we’re looking forward to further feedback and comments about this content.

---

My problem with this is that there are already lots of players who have all the best gear in the game and are skilled and these people aren't doing it, that's not going to change.

Also many of the other players who are progressing and getting gear will never be able to do this stuff no matter what gear they get, due to lack of skill or because they dual box and it's too extreme even for well geared players.

I'd suggest that if you really want people to do it that a) you add an extra 10 job points to people who clear this and that show different color stars so these people get prestige from it and b) that the cosmetic weapon is visible full time and not just when in use.

I've spent a lot of money on cosmetic weapon skins in the past on other games and I can tell you that I would not spend money on something that was only visible during combat (which is kind of comparable to the effort required to get this), these things are to showoff to others and as they currently are they aren't doing that well enough to warrant the effort.

Given the difficulty level of the fights, I don't see why the cost has to be anywhere near as high as it is. It's not like any 6x random players/jobs can walk in and take home a lightsaber. The price of entry should be trivial in order to encourage players to challenge it rather than being cost prohibitive. If the price absolutely has to be merits, make it 75 at most. One full load should be enough to avoid congestion but not enough to make us think too hard about the opportunity cost of a handful of HTB.. Cheaper would be better of course, or even alternate currency like 10JP as suggested earlier could work too.

Maybe we could at least get unique titles for beating them? Or oddball accessories that have no impact on group play, like an earring that gives HHP+100, or a ring with "Enhance Sneak/Invis effects", etc XD I think there are plenty of options to increase the desirability of the content without crossing over into the "affects combat" area.

Make the Kupo Shield a defending ring or tartarus platemail type drop... you know, 1 in every million runs.....

I agree with the Developers on the cosmetic route 100%. While it can obviously be argued that since FFXI is an MMO, most bosses qualify as "optional", the master trials are more akin to the traditional optional bosses in the FF series like Emerald Weapon or Penance. Those bosses only awarded trophy items because they were so difficult that you needed all the best items and strategies to beat them. So the reward was in the accomplishment. The bar that is set for Master Trials is so high that only the best players will beat it. There is nothing wrong with setting high goals. I don't mean to sound condescending, but not everyone deserves a medal.

With that said, I have one suggestion. As they create more Master Trials, I hope that they design the encounters with certain jobs in mind, so players aren't bottle-necked into only using the cookie cutter jobs. IMO, the Master trials should be inclusive the best of all jobs and relate that to the cosmetic reward.

For example, the master trial with the cosmetic staff might require excellent magic damage strategies.

The Dagger/Katana trial could require a Ninja tank, or has a noticeable weakness to dagger-type piercing damage.

A Master trial for a Bow/Gun cosmetic encourages the party to use Rangers and Corsairs... and so on.


That's my two cents! If anything I think it would be neat :p. Also, is there a possibility that the Master trials will eventually include cosmetic armor to go with the weapons?

Yeah being able to do this isn't simply a matter of gearing. It's having perfect gearing, luck, the right jobs and a fair amount of tools to help your gear switching if nothing else. Given that and the high entry cost kind of completely destroys your idea for making this actually work

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings, everyone.

We realize that the implementation of Master Trials has been a largely discussed topic both here and on other forums, and we’ve been passing along your feedback to the development team.

In order to facilitate better discussion around this topic (and also to get more feedback for the team), I wanted to start by sharing the overall concept of this content.

Master Trials were created as difficult end-game content for those players who have just about completed all other aspects of the game and are looking for challenging content to tackle. However, this is not pointing to only right now, this goes for the future as well. While many are busy at the moment putting the finishing touches on their Aeonic weapons or completing other outstanding in-game goals, once those are done, the team would like Master Trials to exist as challenging content that you can take on when you are ready. The team is very aware that only a small population of players have been undertaking the challenge, and they feel that once more players have geared up and enhanced their characters further that this content will be challenged more frequently. Thus, with each version update lately, they have been gradually implementing new Master Trials so that they will exist in the future for players to take on when they are prepared to do so.

In regard to the rewards that Master Trials offers, to better fit the overall concept, the team decided to go the cosmetic route instead of including weapons (or other items) that can be put into use in battle so that they do not become the sole goal of completing this content.

Hopefully this serves to get a better grasp of how the development team views Master Trials, so with that said, we’re looking forward to further feedback and comments about this content.

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Sooo.... you made some of the more difficult content in the game give nothing of actual value. Glowing weapons and a title, nothing that would actually assist players after spending all those merits and dedicating time to the fights.

Brilliant....

I don't think you are understanding what he is saying. He is basically saying that this content was not made for the gear-seekers. It was made for the challenge seekers. For us, overcoming the challenges IS the reward. There is nothing forcing you to do this content. As a matter of fact, not offering awesome gear rewards makes it so you don't have to do master trials to keep up. If the joy of winning is not what you are after, that is perfectly fine and understandable. It just means you don't do the master trials. Its just like any other event. You were never forced to do salvage, limbus, sky, or die-in-mass. If you love or desire the reward, participate. If you don't, you aren't being penalized in any way for not doing it.