Suggestion to increase desire for all jobs: Voidwatch

Voidwatch was one of the most fun events, in my opinion at least, in the last few years. When it was big, every single job was desired. Each person had a role to play, and the loot was good!

Since it has fallen out (I know it's still done, but not the same scale), we've moved back into class favoritism, which is to be expected in any MMO.

We need Voidwatch to either be updated, or a new event similar to Voidwatch where each job is required.

Yes Voidwatch was possibly the best event system they ever made, in terms of getting people to play different jobs. It was fantastic in the middle. I did more than 30,000 battles and it was never a drag.

The problem was the shit-tier loot system, and the ONE GUY WHO NEVER TOOK HIS GOD DAMN BOX. Ignoring the terrible system for pre-fight and post-fight, the battles itself was my favorite. (loading cells BLOWS!) (loot system is terrible). And Pets depopping at the start of each fight was BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!

There were a couple complaints though, but it was player based, not design based. Garbage ninjas unable to land debuffs... muleblues that couldn't hit their spells... And Certain Relic weapons made procs VERY hard. Apoc's blind, Mandau's poison.

I'd love to see a VW 2, unfortunately it won't be like it was, vw was like the peak of recent playerbase. Getting 18 competent players to do a system of procs based on varying ws and magics, would actually literally be impossible. "what do you mean spamming CDC won't proc sword?"

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Originally Posted by Authority

Voidwatch was one of the most fun events, in my opinion at least, in the last few years. When it was big, every single job was desired. Each person had a role to play, and the loot was good!

Since it has fallen out (I know it's still done, but not the same scale), we've moved back into class favoritism, which is to be expected in any MMO.

We need Voidwatch to either be updated, or a new event similar to Voidwatch where each job is required.

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I guessed that, based on your suggestion, you would be on a popular server and sure enough you are on Asura. On Shiva, which isn't a ghost town but definitely no Asura, finding enough active players to fill content requiring a full alliance would be beyond difficult most days (even during prime time) if not outright impossible. Barring a server consolidation this suggestion only adds an aditional layer of difficulty for most players in all but the most populated servers.

Instead of content where you have to have x number of abilities/spells from x number of jobs or you are punished by lack of drops, why not add a multiplier effect that rewards players for including more jobs. So the more different job combinations you bring the better your chance for rare/valauble/number drops. Seriously, SE's Dev team already leans heavily to the negative side of the punishment/reward spectrum, I think more people need to focus on the positive side of that spectrum when making suggestions. Let's show SE that creating a systems of rewards and bonuses is much more fulfilling game play.

I've been saying this forever, would love this to happen, would be nice to be able to do something besides solo - besides the plate etc market is really bad and people need them.

Where each job is required.

18 man alliance, 22 jobs.

I loved VW too but let's be real. You didn't bring a SCH, you brought a BLM. You didn't bring a DRK, you brought a WAR and hoped you didn't get any DRK-only WS. You could bring a PLD but it was just as easy to bring someone /PLD. And you'd never bring BST or PUP, you'd just ignore those procs and move on to the next pop.

Let's not mention further pushing DRK out by going RDM/DRK or BLM/DRK for those Absorb procs!

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Originally Posted by detlef

I loved VW too but let's be real. You didn't bring a SCH, you brought a BLM.

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Always brought a SCH. Libra. And/or Main heals.

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Originally Posted by detlef

You didn't bring a DRK, you brought a WAR and hoped you didn't get any DRK-only WS.

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That's completely untrue, it was "Never bring a DRG and hope war can hit the spear ws's" And that's only because loldrg.

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Originally Posted by detlef

You could bring a PLD but it was just as easy to bring someone /PLD.

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Brought a PLD to half of them, and a lot of times it was fun to PLD DD w/ Rag and pwn noobs.

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Originally Posted by detlef

And you'd never bring BST or PUP, you'd just ignore those procs and move on to the next pop.

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That's SPECIFICALLY because pet's despawned at EVERY battle start and it was INFURIATING. TP wouldn't carry over to the next fight, cause your pet had to be recalled, and "call-beast" is on such a slow timer, that it couldn't keep up. PUP got a terrible rep from day 1, it was a horribad job, there's just nothing that could be done about that, except the 12000 fixes theyve done that were REQUIRED 7 years ago...

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Originally Posted by Kensagaku

Let's not mention further pushing DRK out by going RDM/DRK or BLM/DRK for those Absorb procs!

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Geo/Drk was my personal favorite excuse to come as a geo to voidwatch!
Dusty Wing + Hoe = got ya covered on some Scythe WS's!

Maybe it varied from server to server but that’s not how it was on Valefor. The basic rule of VW is to make sure you can cover as many magic procs as possible, then fill in enough DD and support to allow you to kill your target quickly. Getting some blue procs was nice, but it was common knowledge that capping red lights is what mattered. The purpose of blue procs was to refill temp items and open up the possibility of additional red procs.

You got 18 slots to fill so you’re right that you wouldn’t turn people away. However, you’d never actively try to seek for certain jobs unless you had absolutely everything else covered.

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Originally Posted by Vae

Always brought a SCH. Libra. And/or Main heals.

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Libra’s just one proc. You could get helices from /SCH. And everybody had WHM leveled because it was an Abyssean powerhouse. There weren’t really very many SCH back in those days and the job didn’t really take off until Legion. So there was very little reason to bring one when you could just get WHM/SCH. I can't imagine this scenario coming up that often because the likelihood of having SCH as your only job seems very low for that time.

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Originally Posted by Vae

That's completely untrue, it was "Never bring a DRG and hope war can hit the spear ws's" And that's only because loldrg.

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Sure you could bring a DRK but /DRK is missing what, one absorb spell? One of the BLM could easily /DRK and take care of it. WAR could handle what, 2/3 or more of the GS/Scythe procs? Plus after Abyssea a lot of people had WAR leveled and skilled up because it was so useful there. In my experience it was easier to find a competent WAR than a competent DRK. DRK is a fine job to fill in once the backbone of the alliance is established but you didn’t have to bring it and there wasn’t really a compelling reason to try and force one into the alliance. In my experience you were about as likely to find a serious DRK as a serious DRG in those days. It was far easier to have someone WAR and then cover the job-restricted WS once that had been established.

Aside from that, WAR and MNK were staples of VW because crit weaponskills were all the rage.

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Originally Posted by Vae

Brought a PLD to half of them, and a lot of times it was fun to PLD DD w/ Rag and pwn noobs.

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Sure you probably wouldn't turn away a PLD but you're bringing a WHM anyway and /PLD gave you Shield Bash. Are you going to bring PLD just for Swift Blade? Sure, bring a PLD but BLU can cover most sword WS, MNK can do staff and club, and WHM can cover the magic. With wings, regain atmacites, and tacticians people didn't have any issues with WS frequency, even for non-primary weapons. Since you were riding Fanatics and you could still hold hate with damage alone at the time, you didn't really need to have a tank either.

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Originally Posted by Vae

That's SPECIFICALLY because pet's despawned at EVERY battle start and it was INFURIATING. TP wouldn't carry over to the next fight, cause your pet had to be recalled, and "call-beast" is on such a slow timer, that it couldn't keep up. PUP got a terrible rep from day 1, it was a horribad job, there's just nothing that could be done about that, except the 12000 fixes theyve done that were REQUIRED 7 years ago...

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Could it also be because (for the purpose of VW) there are no BST-only axe WS or PUP-only H2H WS? And Pet/Auto are just one proc each? Why bring a BST or a PUP when everybody and their mother has WAR and MNK leveled?

Look, I guess my language was a little strong in my post because any job could find its way into a VW alliance. I wouldn’t go so far as to say certain jobs were outright rejected the moment they requested an invitation. But there were a lot of jobs that either brought nothing unique to the table or were very replaceable with another more common job. Like would you ever bring a RDM?

My main point was that while VW encouraged job diversity it didn't really make it required. Even though I have fond memories of VW, it had many warts.

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Originally Posted by detlef

I loved VW too but let's be real. You didn't bring a SCH, you brought a BLM. You didn't bring a DRK, you brought a WAR and hoped you didn't get any DRK-only WS. You could bring a PLD but it was just as easy to bring someone /PLD. And you'd never bring BST or PUP, you'd just ignore those procs and move on to the next pop.

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People were way more flexible than that. As long as the PLD was willing to switch weapons and help do WS triggers they would be welcome...um people brought DRK all the time because DRK Resolution spam was awesome at the time and when you were capped you wanted it dead. SCH's were totally commonly invited if they were avail but there was just more BLM so yeah you'd make do with a BLM if you had to.

The only jobs that people shrugged off were bst and pup and I still saw people come on those. Basically a full alliance was always better than a perfect one.... couldn't find 2 BLU, well you'd take one and get someone else on something else. It was veeeery rare for an alliance that had most bases covered to not just take w/e

Detlef's apparently right, it varied from server to server. Somebody would conceive something that worked and it would roll down into other groups. Never really saw a bard at VW, as blm/brd could handle it.

Although I seem to remember it being blu/pld more than whm/pld. With proc spells equipped, the blu was pretty useless anyway.

Before Adoulin, there were 20 jobs for an 18 man alliance. You had to make some concessions, especially since some fights you wanted more than one whm or more than one blm. Further, it wasn't always easy to get 18 or 16 different jobs. You eventually got tired of shouting and took what was willing--and that was during the game's healthier days.

Read my next post after that one. Also, it probably depends on what era you did VW. The era I'm referring to was when VW was the next content that came after Abyssea when VS and Ukko's were at their peak of power. There were a ton of people who had WAR geared and skilled for Abyssea procs (back then you often rolled with a WAR and NIN duo for procs rather than relying on NIN like we do today). A significant portion of those WARs came with an Ukonvasara. Likewise MNK was half of the MNK-WHM blunt time duo and also had Victory Smite which was also very powerful at the time. There was no reason not to bring these two jobs to VW because they provided a lot of WS procs while leading the way in damage. Reso spam was the rage near the tail end of that era, I don't remember if it was the next big thing after VS/Ukko's got nerfed. I'm not sure where that came in relative to Provenance and VW's heyday. But while I think you can defend DRK, SCH just didn't bring much to the table and nobody had just SCH with no flexibility to switch jobs.

Again, sure you could bring nearly one of everything but certain jobs could easily be left out for various reasons.

I admittedly didn't get in on voidwatch till it was about midway of its heyday but I was in plenty of groups with SCH. Yes BLU/PLD was a thing but PLD was desired for some fights (eg morta to hold adds). We had bards all the time, never saw a BLM/brd in VW. Sure you have elemental seal but there are a few elements with more than one possible proc...

I am not saying there was no job exclusivity but it was far far better than any event these days.

Yeah you'd still have BRDs. That's what I played so my groups always had it. I think that was the only way to cap haste at the time so you had to have them.

You know, the other thing too.. Yeah VW made you want to bring a variety of jobs, but it wasn't actually playing the jobs, it was slowing dps so that the EV person could try to land the proc and invariably it was someone without the skill to do so thus it took several tries.

I just don't remember VW being as fun as everyone else. I'm not really fond of temps-dependent content or atma, atmacites, or vorseals, though vorseals aren't nearly as potent as the other two.

Yeah... I remember those days of the EV proc near the end. "GS 5 / GS EV!" RESOLUTION RESOLUTION RESOLUTION "RESOLUTION IS NOT A PROC."

Or those BLUs who couldn't land their debuffs. Or those stupid instances where a dark-resistant mob like Pil had a dark weakness... e_o Yeah, those were the days.

There were frustrations to be sure, but from my perspective at least I got to do relevant content with other people. Now I sub... solo for a bit... log out and feel no motivation to log back in. It's just depressing.

That's kinda what it boiled down to. For the hardcore people that will come on necessary jobs, Voidwatch was a pain at time bringing jobs that did terrible damage because the procs were good to have.--

I play PLD. Other than fights with adds, PLD was fairly useless for most VW bosses because the DDs were tanking. Still, I generally got to go for shield bash, and swinging a staff/sword.

--For the people that focus on one job and want to bring that job to everything, Voidwatch made that happen.

I'm not even talking about balance here--rather than buff the jobs that needed buffing (or :( nerf the jobs that needed nerfing) they had us relying on crap damage spells/abilities.

Voidwatch had phases, I think everyone forgets this.

In the beginning, ANYONE could go, it was a non-issue, you would NEVER kill the mob before you capped lights... killing it at all was an issue.

Then.... RME gained huge prevalence, and it "started" to limit options. The rewards just werent good enough to keep the best people playing, and quality started to go down.

After that, was like a renaissance, it was amazing, anyone could go, all procs were hit, they went fast, all jobs were good to go it almost didn't matter.

Then it was completely dead. SPAM RESOLUTION!!!!!!!!!!! SPAM FUDO!!!!!!!!! No procs given, no lights hit, all mules as blues, it went to hell. (for shouts)