PUP endgame help?

Hey, just reached lvl 78 as pup, and I'm finally thinking about what I'm going to do once I reach 90.

Obviously skilling up the rest of the way is one thing I'll be doing, but I'm clueless about other things.

I eventually of course want to have full emp +2 armour and Verethragna, but what should I wear till then? (of course, that'll take forever). What other gear should I wear apart from that?

What stats and other things should I put merits into?

What atmas should I be using?

As far as I know, there's no endgame pup guide out there. I want to work on min/maxing pup, but I want work on min/maxing with gear and all before emp weapon/armour, then after as well.

Also, is the length of time so long working on emp stuff that I should do some of the other quests and trials and stuff to get more to last till then? Like stringing pummel; certainly it's weaker than victory smite but should I put the time into getting it to hold me over till I get vere? What about hunting for Burattinaios?

I don't have all the time of the world to work on getting stuff in this game, but I do want to have final goals to work for, and be as strong as I can be for every step of the way (obviously getting stronger as I get more of the final goals achieved).

TL;DR: What the hell do I work for, starting at lvl 90 as PUP? What do I equip then and what do I get along the way? What do I eventually end up with?

first of all: cap all your skill....especially automaton magic...the big number outside of abyssea come from there

and you should exp sch and nin to 45 if you want to solo some stuff
pup/sch is good for nuking things, while pup/nin with whm automaton is one of the best way to solo stuff in abyssea

about equip: emp+1 set should be your priority...usually less ppl is asking pup seal so its easy to join a shout pt and lot those.
vere is a really hard goal if you do not have an ls or, at least, a static pt...
for this reason you should get stringing pummel asap...

for the attach you can view my profile on ffxiah, those are the setup i use with every automaton
same for some other piece of equip its cool to have...if u have the 3 mini-exp they have some of the best pup equip you can have

i will suggest in obtaining some trial h2h like str path and, i love those one, DA path.
burattinaio is something you should aim at, too.

for the merit you need to cap magic and melee skill, optimization and 3 point to fine tuning...a point in role reversal and ventriloqui too
i will cap str+, crit+ and h2h skill

atma: RR, VV, SS for melee setup and ultimate, beyond and MM for mage setup are some of the best atma we can use

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Originally Posted by Lushipur

first of all: cap all your skill....especially automaton magic...the big number outside of abyssea come from there

and you should exp sch and nin to 45 if you want to solo some stuff
pup/sch is good for nuking things, while pup/nin with whm automaton is one of the best way to solo stuff in abyssea

about equip: emp+1 set should be your priority...usually less ppl is asking pup seal so its easy to join a shout pt and lot those.
vere is a really hard goal if you do not have an ls or, at least, a static pt...
for this reason you should get stringing pummel asap...

for the attach you can view my profile on ffxiah, those are the setup i use with every automaton
same for some other piece of equip its cool to have...if u have the 3 mini-exp they have some of the best pup equip you can have

i will suggest in obtaining some trial h2h like str path and, i love those one, DA path.
burattinaio is something you should aim at, too.

for the merit you need to cap magic and melee skill, optimization and 3 point to fine tuning...a point in role reversal and ventriloqui too
i will cap str+, crit+ and h2h skill

atma: RR, VV, SS for melee setup and ultimate, beyond and MM for mage setup are some of the best atma we can use

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No offense but that was a lot of old information that really isnt true anymore. Alot of your points were fine but here
1) Yes you can get big nukes out of abyssea, but with burts you get better DD sharpshooter and better soloability with valor edge.
2) Level subs to 49, not 45, youll thank me later
3) SCH can be pretty much skipped, if you cant kill it /war, dnc, or nin it wont matter. You can level it if you want for the 3 mobs you might be sleep nukeing but we are so far above them level wise now it wont matter.
4) For gear I am really tempted to say just skip verethragna. Burts are comparable dmg, and have far more utility. With stringing pummel and burts, you wont miss verethragna at all.
5) for atma, rr,gh, apoc .... or rr vv apoc
6) for merits in group 2 you can probably skip ventriloq now since we have DEA its almost completly worthless, you might even be able to skip role reversal, I know I personally havent used it 4+ months

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Originally Posted by Dfoley

No offense but that was a lot of old information that really isnt true anymore. Alot of your points were fine but here
1) Yes you can get big nukes out of abyssea, but with burts you get better DD sharpshooter and better soloability with valor edge.
2) Level subs to 49, not 45, youll thank me later
3) SCH can be pretty much skipped, if you cant kill it /war, dnc, or nin it wont matter. You can level it if you want for the 3 mobs you might be sleep nukeing but we are so far above them level wise now it wont matter.
4) For gear I am really tempted to say just skip verethragna. Burts are comparable dmg, and have far more utility. With stringing pummel and burts, you wont miss verethragna at all.
5) for atma, rr,gh, apoc .... or rr vv apoc
6) for merits in group 2 you can probably skip ventriloq now since we have DEA its almost completly worthless, you might even be able to skip role reversal, I know I personally havent used it 4+ months

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2) obviously i was talking about the current level cap...and now there is little problem to exp a sub...no real need to hurry cause synch pt are almoast dead and, from what i can judge, the OP have just burned pup in abyssea...but i can be wrong :P

1/3) yes, SCH may be skipped now... pup90 can solo everything even without the sleep/nuke... but remember that outside abyssea we dont have awesome power and for most NM its the free hate nuke that make us the best nuker :P and i'll wait to see the new content to judge if /sch is not returning to his splendor :P and burattinaios is awesome but i still think LS will prefer other dd that can give less tp to nm and draw less hate... when i have to use pup in event, im always a nuke pup...but thats my point of view...different ppl have diifferent play style....but saying that
the nuke part of our job is to be trascured in favor of the melee one is not good either

6) i personally love role reversal and ill love to max it if SE will ever raise the merit limit. with DEA and role reversal you have a fresh mmaton and dont have to rest/use oil. vent have is use, its not the hate on the puppet the problem, but yours. with vent you can let the puppet die and then DEA it...but i admit i skipped it for 1 more point in fine tuning :P

Well I would definately like to clarify that I leveled to 70 the old-fashioned way; after that I was doing stuff in worms parties (though even with bluffalo parties the blind + flash + cure v is fairly useful I'd say).

Just wondering, what would be the time needed to get vere compared to getting burt and stringing pummel? I'm assuming the later's quicker, but at least the former's less luck-based.

Oh, and I do have a good ls. Not a big one that can field an entire alliance (particularly because we seem even split between NA and EU times) but we can get maybe 9 people at the best of times.

BTW, if I spend merit points in one thing, then realise that it was a stupid decision, can I earn more merit points and put them in other categories? For all of the 11 days I played WoW, I remember screwing myself over by putting points in different talent trees so I couldn't get the final skill of the tree I followed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dfoley

2) Level subs to 49, not 45, youll thank me later

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While you're at it, why not go to 50+ and open up the AF quests, getting that extra level will probably only take a short time and allow you the fun of doing those storyline quests (if you are into that).

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Originally Posted by Gropitou

While you're at it, why not go to 50+ and open up the AF quests, getting that extra level will probably only take a short time and allow you the fun of doing those storyline quests (if you are into that).

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Yeah I'm planning on taking my subjobs to 50, currently have war and dnc at 45. However, I had to level those from 30-45 recently, which took about 4 days combined. At the end of that period I felt like I was going a little insane; I don't like playing dnc very much, or even subbing it if I can help it. nin I've stayed as far as I could away from, due to the fact that I've already been poor. If I have spare time (LOL!) I might level it, but for partying in aby /war seems better as a sub.

I've thought about leveling sch; might take to 30 then leech to 50. However, I really like stuff in aby so it's not that big of a priority though (though might become one if I start working on stringing pummel; nyzul isle sounds really annoying).

Don't tp in empy feet, it's a macro piece for ws/tactical switch.
Stringing Pummel is a must-have! It's an awesome ws. I was the other day soloing some op in abyssea and hitting for 3k-4k while a blu with woe weapon next to me was doing 2k-3k with chant du cygne, lol.
As of magian weapons, the evasion path is a good idea, pup can be a very good tank and those may help since we're an evasion-oriented job. Also the pet mab for the few times when you're on nuke-only duty(could happen!)
Cap magic skill(even merits).
Remember to macro af gloves and buffoon collar for manuevers(in case you don't already), and never tp in those.

Um...I think that's it.

BTW, Lushipur, you're shown as a brd (with brd stuff equipped) on ffxiah.

As for equipping stuff for macros, I guess the reason I see people in aurora feet with most/all the rest being empy must be because of that reason lol. I've been lazy, just using af for a while (hey cut me a little slack, pre-70 you can equip probably almost anything and still level up just fine). However, now that I've got my aurora I'm planning on macroing stuff (which sounds rather annoying tbh; since I don't know of any way to move a line in a macro down I'll need to re-write most of the lines completely; for the second time too since I put it in the macro to tell my my auto's hp mp and tp with every macro).

BTW I'm using savate fists, with acc +5 and eva+4 on them. Should I be able to use these till I get burt? And aurora till I get AF3, w/out +1?

Also... the consensus in this thread seems to be that I should definately get burt and stringing pummel. Most other places seem to favour vere with victory smite (reason being that crit ws's seem to be king in aby). Now is this ya'll's opinion that in aby SP is better than VS, or is SP basically the thing to tide me over till I finish some really long weapon trials for it? Either way I think I'll be getting SP and Burt; sure sounds annoying but doable, while empy stuff sounds very long time before I can get it.

look at the syllph profile and search on my item set, not the current equip shown: i have pup tp, pup ws and every automaton ^^

http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Sylph/Lushipur#item-sets

I wanna thank everyone for their responses here :O!

Even though I'm not the OP, I actually have been playing PUP Recently, and this will help me when i hit 90 !

Thanks :)

Cool, that I can use kusha's ring and lava's ring at 90 :) I got both 1/1 times, must be luck of the Irish.

BTW, how do you changed so much stuff for ws? You don't have many lines in a macro!

Speaking of macros, I've been using that new thing you can do, putting <wait 1> at the end of a line, instead of /wait 1 at the beginning of another line. Does this work just as well for equipment swapping for manoeuvres? Sometimes I see it glitch up and use the manoeuvre first then gear swap, and I'm never quite sure if I'm doing the ja while my gear is swapped.

Also, someone in game said recently that pld frame/head is better DD than rng frame/head using a parser. You know anything about that?

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Originally Posted by Lisotte

Also, someone in game said recently that pld frame/head is better DD than rng frame/head using a parser. You know anything about that?

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It might be true in absysea. I really Don't know.

I think Bonecrusher (?) is a Critical hit ws.. right? it gets massive boost from DD atmas in Abyssea.. RR/GH/Apoc/VV type of thing, where as RNG frame doesn't get Triple-Attack Shots/etc. RNG just doesn't get as much of a boost as DD inside Abyssea.

That might be why :X

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lisotte

Thanks :)

Cool, that I can use kusha's ring and lava's ring at 90 :) I got both 1/1 times, must be luck of the Irish.

BTW, how do you changed so much stuff for ws? You don't have many lines in a macro!

Speaking of macros, I've been using that new thing you can do, putting <wait 1> at the end of a line, instead of /wait 1 at the beginning of another line. Does this work just as well for equipment swapping for manoeuvres? Sometimes I see it glitch up and use the manoeuvre first then gear swap, and I'm never quite sure if I'm doing the ja while my gear is swapped.

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there are for sure better option for the ring slot...but im waiting to see the level 99 before buying something...all the 90 gear we have now its gonna become obsolete in a few months...
this and the fact i spent a month getting those ring first 1/6 second 1/64 è_é

for the equip swap you can use two different macro before hitting the ws macro...hoping that SE will give more option in the future like the new wait command...

To weigh in on the merits question:

I wouldn't ever give up Ventriloquy, too much use for me. As mentioned, it's not so much to allow your puppet to survive as it is to dump hate off yourself when you don't want to take hits. Plus, sometimes I use it to staple hate onto myself (especially useful in a lowman group, like when I run around with a WHM). Open with a nuke or a big automaton WS, Vent onto myself, Stringing Pummel = very well established hate.

And in case it's useful to anyone, basic PUP merit thinking:
GROUP 1:
5/5 Automaton Melee (all frames benefit, including SS by getting melee TP faster for more Armor Piercers)
5/5 Automaton Magic (get spells earlier, stronger/more accurate nukes for those times you do want Spiritreaver)
0/5 Automaton Ranged (just not worth it, melee helps SS more through TP gain, the only way you'd want ranged is if you were 100% sure you'd NEVER want to use a nuking puppet, then replace magic with ranged merits)

GROUP 2:
5/5 Optimization - a must-have
1/5 Vent
1/5 Role Reversal
3/5 Fine-Tuning - if you gave up one of the JAs, add more merits to Fine-Tuning

As for other lv90 stuff:
- Keep your skill up
- Make a good master TP and WS set as your priority.
- Have /NIN, /DNC, and /WAR available. /SCH is not really needed
- Get Stringing Pummel
- Burattinaios are AWESOME, practically a relic level weapon that's a single NM drop. Easier to get than finishing Verethragna, and better in many situations. If you have any chance at all to get this, DO IT.

In Abyssea:
- DD atma: Razed Ruins (must have), Apocalypse, Gnarled Horn, Voracious Violet. Those are your basics, other decent ones include Stout Arm, Alpha & Omega, Siren Shadow
- Nuke atma: Minikin Monstrosity, Ultimate, Beyond. Others to hold you over until then include Kirin and Full Moon
- Sometimes it's nice to be able to gear for all out nukes to kill NMs that aren't melee-friendly or are weak to magic. For the most part, gearing your PUP as a melee DD is what you'll be doing though

Accuracy is not as important as it once was. Outside Abyssea, you have a huge level advantage over enemies so you should be capped or near cap. Inside Abyssea, Atma like Razed Ruins and cruor buffs will bring you to cap. So, for your TP gear focus instead on getting stats like Haste, Atk, STR, Crit, Double Attack where you can. Acc never hurts, but it's not essential like it was in the old FFXI. For WS, be careful to ensure you really are capping Acc for Stringing Pummel, but like TP it's not as hard as it once was. Stuff like the Acc ring set were great at level 75, but now aren't as impressive since Acc is often redundant in people's gear sets these days.

The big disclaimer though... 91-99, or harder non-Abyssea content that's forthcoming, might differ a bit. Hard enemies where you DON'T have atma available might indeed need some Acc. Maybe even in the forthcoming Dynamis revamp...

this day im thinking about removing 5/5 melee and put those merit on repair recast...i really hope after this merit fix, they give us more point to use on job specific merit ;_;

Thanks for the info, combined with Lushipur's ideas I have a good idea of what I need to get done now :)

So, if I'm doing DD then valoredge will pretty much be a better option than sharpshot in aby?

Also I'm going to start working on those burattinaios, and starting nyzul isle (for stringing pummel). I'm getting closer to skill caps, 270-ish on h2h and auto magic, 230 on auto melee, a pitiful 170 ish on auto ranged, 250 on evade and another pitiful 100 on guard (sad especially with tactical guard).

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Originally Posted by Lushipur

this day im thinking about removing 5/5 melee and put those merit on repair recast...i really hope after this merit fix, they give us more point to use on job specific merit ;_;

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You're crazy to give up ~10 attack and ~10 acc for the auto (that gets multiplied from attachments and optimization for the attack) just for a quicker repair.

But if you really REALLY need the extra healing... carry a few Dawn Mulsum with you. They don't stack, but they're cheap and restore around 35% of a pet's max HP per pop. Ice crystal with 1x white honey, 1x holy water, and 1x grape juice, uses cooking skill and possibly alchemy sub to make. '-')b

I don't know if pup is your 1st end-game job or not. If you have the trophies, I would suggest you do a fast dominion ops pt or to to speed level to 87 (set pup to whm, don't worry about ever getting the chance to engage). Pup will keep magic capped via curing (make sure you are in the DD/Puller's party so it has something TO cure). At 87 you can pick up the Kokugetsu set, a very nice set-especially if you get lucky on the augments-to tide you over until you get the Jester suit. The gear from the ACP, MKT, ASA expansions are excellent for putting your Auto on sterroids if you have them, and even the relic set is viable if you have any. I don't remember the name, but there is a serviceable set from Campaign, too. AF+1 is fun if you have the stuff or the group to get it, and all is serviceable until you can get your jester set.

Weapons is more a matter of luck, especially if you speed your way to 87. Obviously, you want to at least unlock your Nyzul weap skill as it chains quite nicely. Then, if you don't have much of a shot at getting those uber pup HTH at level 89, Burattinaios then you might as well get working on some trial weaps. Which to go for is up to you, several options have their fans. Most lately would probably suggest a mage path, so the developers being who they are expect everything 90-99 to favor Valoredge or Sharpshot :p

sry should've updated that I reached lvl 90 a few days ago. My h2h and evade skills are to the point that they're leveling up decently in merit parties, as is auto magic (melee slowly as well, ranged very slowly, though he doesn't always miss).

If you're trying to get a hold of Burratinaios you should try camping uphill where the dominion ops NPC is ( Right before the field of Spectators, the orbs ). Alot of smallman groups pass through there to duo/trio/alliance Ogopogo and floor the Burattinaios often. I got lucky, like many others on my server to have bumped into these people grinding OgoPogo for Souls to finish their shields / harps. I offered to pay for mine but they said they floored them all the time so they offered it to me and every drop other than the souls. I have no idea how often it is camped where you are but I'm pretty sure there are people going for shield and harp up there so it is worth a shot to try. Some groups will even go through the trouble to send you a tell if you're one of the few pups in the zone Them" Hey, you want this burrito ? " You" Burrito.... ? " Them" Yeah burrito, pup thinger "

The H2h itself is amazing, I still can't believe how good it is. 10 a tick is MASSIVE. if you use atmas like VV it just makes it crazier. Not to mention if your auto double/triple attacks you're looking at your automaton break dancing and busting out AP rounds left and right. The tp regeneration is so great for fights that you can't really get close to, set up a beach chair for your automaton and have it spam armor piercer ( Of course deactivate when hate is built up ). For some fights I stand back and Daze stun TP moves since TP is ready in about 25 seconds or so. Ok I'm ranting, its such a great weapon for how easy it is to get. Every puppetmaster should aim for a pair of these!

Good luck and hope you find a group spamming souls up there :D

Shhh. lets not talk to much about the Burritos.

Sorry for necroposting, but figured that it might help rather than make a new thread entirely for some backround....

Anyway I'm returning to FFXI again, patching atm (still takes a crazy amount of time for this process). Still planning on playing PUP, getting it to 99, using war, dnc and possibly nin as subs, yadda yadda yadda. Tried playing last fall, couldn't find my old ls and didn't feel motivated to get a new one, mostly felt overwhelmed about the length of time it takes to achieve anything at all end-game (kinda miss when I was level 60-ish, a lot of stuff started to come together as a pup then).

I pretty much haven't played in about a year. In a nutshell, what's new for pup? What goals should I set now? (apart from reaching 99, doing that horrible process known as skilling up, possibly throwing my gil down the drain and leveling nin). Still possible to just use cruor and notes to quickly get money for stuff such as shihei? (my only reason that I could afford nin).
Kind of miffed about the burts nerf, they were always my goal to get relatively quickly, though I never did.
If anyone's in a ls on Sylph and wants a returning PUP (not sure if I can find my old one), I'm looking for a ls.

Also: What's the fastest way to get out of my pink outfit?

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Originally Posted by Lisotte

Sorry for necroposting, but figured that it might help rather than make a new thread entirely for some backround....

Anyway I'm returning to FFXI again, patching atm (still takes a crazy amount of time for this process). Still planning on playing PUP, getting it to 99, using war, dnc and possibly nin as subs, yadda yadda yadda. Tried playing last fall, couldn't find my old ls and didn't feel motivated to get a new one, mostly felt overwhelmed about the length of time it takes to achieve anything at all end-game (kinda miss when I was level 60-ish, a lot of stuff started to come together as a pup then).

I pretty much haven't played in about a year. In a nutshell, what's new for pup? What goals should I set now? (apart from reaching 99, doing that horrible process known as skilling up, possibly throwing my gil down the drain and leveling nin). Still possible to just use cruor and notes to quickly get money for stuff such as shihei? (my only reason that I could afford nin).
Kind of miffed about the burts nerf, they were always my goal to get relatively quickly, though I never did.
If anyone's in a ls on Sylph and wants a returning PUP (not sure if I can find my old one), I'm looking for a ls.

Also: What's the fastest way to get out of my pink outfit?

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You want to focus on getting empyrean +2 armor, and probably a STR ToM H2H at first. (Verethragna 90 is also very feasable, although you probably want a LS to get some people to duo/trio stuff for drops.)

Automatons have seen some sweeping changes, AI has been improved, attachments enhanced, etc. Magic is no longer on a single timer (which are also shortened), and spell selection has been significantly improved. PUP/NIN has it's use on hard-hitting NMs, but for weaker stuff go PUP/WAR with full stormwaker and enjoy the despair of mobs (and RDMs) as your bot spams Protect V, Shell V, Phalanx, Stoneskin, Haste and Cure IV on you. Or pick other subs you like, and match your bot to match your play style. Save your gil for attachments, some are REALLY hard to get. PUP/DNC does very well solo in dynamis, being able to consistently proc ws and ja mobs for currency rain, so you can use that as a source of gil.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

I think I'll go for the MAB claws as a stopgap weapon, then go for something other. Does this weapon benefit rdm head as well as blm head? Does it help whm head?

if you've been gone for a year you really want to read up on the pupdate. they did a phenomonal bump to pet AI. All of your frames/heads but harley are useful now, and harley has its fans just for shits and giggles. Empy armor +2 is still generally about your best choice, but take a good look at the relic +2 set. Pretty easy to obtain, especially since pup rocks in Dynamis, solo or group. no real changes on the Aby front, aside from a more intelligent AI. You can get some attachments via GoV chests, too, and I personaly prefer GoV for skilling up, especially since prowess also affects pet. However, Dynamis will allow you to skill to 99 cap as well if you target the DC mobs. Pup/dnc with stormwalker frame/head is my fave solo as it covers all 3 procs, if you don't AFK you'll be good for about 100 $ and a fair amount of other godies solo/run; in a pt I usually use the soulsoother head, but the rewards fall off as you have to share. This is provided you are on a budget or like to solo. With a good group you can just aby spam to the Empy armor. Weapons... a matter of your preference in pup playstyle. I personally use a pair of Oxyuranis with +MAB in Aby, another under construction that boosts ACC for SS/VE frames, outside Aby I usually default to Marotte Claws (they were free and are effective, albeit not the best H2H). Other weaps might be more to your benefit if your playstyle differs from mine (I solo magic mobs with my pup for the most part, or use in parties, using bst against melee mobs, but that's my job set [partially]).

Anyone cared on how to elaborate pup and dynamis? How to pull TE safely etc... and what type of mob to kill, JA or WS? As well does anyone have some experience on pup using automaton to solo tanking abysea NM similar to how beast and summoner does it?

I'm slowly getting a feel for dyna... but in a group so far.

On pup/thf, in qufim (I might try dunes soon since they're supposed to be easier) should I be going after stirges, gaylas and weapons? I know strobe and flashbulb proc ws; does disruptor work on them? What's the strategy on farming? Keeping back turned till auto procs?

If I wanted to farm pup/dnc with stormwalker frame, would sandy be a better place to go?