Realistic Ideas for Future Bard Songs/JA/JTs/etc

Ok, so. @.@

For the future of Bard, a job that I personally love, I'd like to express some of my thoughts as to how I think the job could grow in the last couple level cap increases.

--First, I feel like it's time Brd finally got a Job Trait that shortens song casting time (similar to Elemental Celerity for Blm). A first tier of a Rdm's Fast Cast would be amazing, but at least something Brd-specific to quicken song casting a little bit. It would be really nice on Inventory as well since Brds wouldn't have to lug around as much gear trying to cap Song Spellcasting time. Justification: A level 90 Brd should naturally be able to cast a song faster (Not including gear!) than a lvl 1 Brd. Amirite? :(

--Secondly, Brd needs more creative support songs. Scherzo was a great step in the right direction, and adding nullification to Tier II Carol's was also very useful, but otherwise it's just higher tier'd versions of songs we already have... Little lame. :(
I'm not saying anything's wrong with higher tier'd versions of our current songs!! @.@ But it'd be really nice to have some additional different songs to play around with and use.

Ex: -TP Regain Song? (Similar to what Cors/Schs have atm)
-Subtle Blow+ Song?
-Increased resistance to ALL Status Ailments (Nothing too OP, more so a second tier to all of those Status Resistance songs Brd gets)
-Idk, just somethin with a lil' more creativity! <.>

--Third, more offensive songs! I'm not just talking something like Horde Lullaby II (Which I'd hope we get by lvl 99! <.>). As with the second point, I'm just talking about a new type of creative enfeeble/possible nuke. Nowadays, it's usually only all about Elegy (Discounting Yellow Procs in Abyssea) as Threnodies aren't generally needed too much (still useful when applicable though), and Requiem sadly doesn't land on 99% of NMs anyways.

Please, just give us some other type of enfeeble, whether it be something similar to other jobs or something brand-new and more Brd-specific. Some kind of non-elemental Nuke song would be really interesting (think like a Sonicboom! o.O) and could put to use all that Magic Att. Bonus gear Brd can potentially use. I'm not talkin' like Blm Blizzard V damage, but something that could do respectable damage in our downtime.

That's pretty much it; I guess I'd like to add that I hope the dev. team keeps adding Brd to DD-melee orientated and more traditional Mage gear (Cure Potency comes to mind) since I love playing as a DD/solo/hardcore-support Brd lol :p

Hope the Dev. Team can get around to us Brds! >.< And sorry for the long post! Feel free to post any neat ideas/comments you may have for future Brd songs/JAs/JTs/etc in regards! :D

i like all the idea you posted, except we dont really need a ja to shorten song...even outside abyssea now we have so much gear that we can cap the spellcasting time even without ministrel ring ^^

i totally want a sonic boom!!!! but i suppose it will or too overpowered or inefective...brd use no mp so we can spam our song...it should have an extreme long recast or give too much enmity...else even if it does 100dmg, we will start spamming form the start to the end of the fight XD

I have been waiting for Silence and Paralyze songs to couple with my Elegy for quite some time.

You forgot the [dev####] tag to get the dev's attention.

so you can dosomething not botable ? give some unique abilitys aby can be very hard as a brd depending how that party is set up having 3 mages spred out along with 3 malee spred out doing dom ops

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Originally Posted by Retsujo

I have been waiting for Silence and Paralyze songs to couple with my Elegy for quite some time.

You forgot the [dev####] tag to get the dev's attention.

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and what tag he should use? u know u cant invent some tag? the tag are decided by the dev and u can use those to reply, but not use one to start a topic...

if i missed a topic by the dev about brd, im sorry :P

Yeah, I wasn't exactly sure which dev tag to use... Hopefully it's ok I just went with the Phantom Roll tag since that's kinda similar to Brd. :/

Otherwise, yeah, they'd need to work out some quirks if they ever did give Brd some form of a nuke (1-2min recast, moderate dmg), especially since it wouldn't use MP! O.o

And yes, Brd can get their Song casting time already very low... but that requires a lot of extra gear for that sole purpose. Many Brds don't even bother with it (even though it can be so amazing! @.@). A JT that would just naturally lower song casting time (even like 10%), would just be a nice for Brds that don't have much Song Casting Time gear, Brds that are close to capping Song Casting Time, and on a Brd's inventory, which is always a hassle nowadays. >.<

I would definitely like a song/JA that can Stun.

Perhaps a JA that enhances Threnodies into adding an enfeeble based on their elements.
Example: Ice Threnody is Fire Based. So is Addle. Enhanced Ice Threnody Addles the target.

Maybe an attack down song, probably fire element? and I've always thought a Fear-type song would be great. Paralysis (called a hypnotic or something) would work with bard. An attack down type song would be decent.

And while we're on the subject, make Verilai useful for something... Seems its only purpose is pulling NMs

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Originally Posted by Glamdring

And while we're on the subject, make Verilai useful for something... Seems its only purpose is pulling NMs

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and soloing Ignamoth.

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Originally Posted by Glamdring

Maybe an attack down song, probably fire element? and I've always thought a Fear-type song would be great. Paralysis (called a hypnotic or something) would work with bard. An attack down type song would be decent.

And while we're on the subject, make Verilai useful for something... Seems its only purpose is pulling NMs

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Or rather, a second tier of threnodies that have a low chance of inflicting the status effect assosciated with thier element.

I.e. : Wind Threnody 2 has a chance of inflicting paralysis
Earth Threnody 2 can silence
Water Threnody 2 can stun
etc.

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Originally Posted by Illianna

Or rather, a second tier of threnodies that have a low chance of inflicting the status effect assosciated with thier element.

I.e. : Wind Threnody 2 has a chance of inflicting paralysis
Earth Threnody 2 can silence
Water Threnody 2 can stun
etc.

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this would be great...but with better proc rates or with 100% proc rate if wearing full af3+2

yeah, that would be workable, and I don't think it would hurt balance at all.

On the subject of nukes/offencive songs for brd, why not give brd expendable instruments? Say a 1 time use horn that would produce a light based nuke/sonicboom and be broken after used?

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Originally Posted by Goonieprime

On the subject of nukes/offencive songs for brd, why not give brd expendable instruments? Say a 1 time use horn that would produce a light based nuke/sonicboom and be broken after used?

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think that might be a balance issue from expense. However, a limited charge item, like a RR earring, 10 minute timer between use, 30-50 charges? Viable. Although another thing to carry? Ugh...

If we're thinking about songs from 91-99 that we'd "realistically" get, I think we need to think in terms of songs we already have, or mobs already have. Moreover, we have to think about the nature of the job, what it does, and what it doesn't do.

We might see things like March III, Madrigal III, Horde Lullaby II, and with any luck, Massacre Elegy. A Charmga song would certainly be interesting! though that's wishful thinking.

I don't think a Regain song is out of the question, seeing as how it's in place on other jobs anyway.

I doubt we'd get a "Sonic Boom," a light based nuke, as much as we'd like it. Bard is more passive than other jobs, and participates in battle in indirect ways. It doesn't do damage, but it will slow down mobs, and speed up team mates.

Another thing to consider is that there can't be too much redundancy between Bard songs and Corsair rolls, as each job should have some buffs unique to themselves.

If dancing can cure people... why cant songs? So hows about adding some cure songs?

Other things that would make bard better but not broken.

Break songs up into categories.

Skill level / stat type songs such as Mambo, Madrigal, Minuet, March
Enhancement type: Ballad, Paeon, a regain song, STR/DEX/AGI/MND/INT/CHR songs, Carols

Allow 2 of each song type. and let Gjillahorn also do 3 of each as well as the emp harp.

Personally I would be happy with Elegy III and allowing requiem to actually stick on NM's. It is sad that brd's only offensive song for DOT is resisted on almost all new NM's.

You want to be careful about overlapping what jobs do, or simply overpowering a job that is already one of the most important jobs in the game. Although it would be entertaining if they made it possible to do ranged attacks with instruments, I think nuking really is out of the realm of bard. When thinking of what's next for bard, I think it's important to consider what problems most other jobs have, then think about how bard could fix that problem for them. That is sorta how scherzo came about: powerful enemies one-shotting mages or melees with AoE, so scherzo and similar abilities were released.

So what problems do other jobs face? Only one I can think of now is that sometimes a WS from an enemy fires off so quickly that it's too hard to stun reliably. Perhaps a debuff that increases the charge-up time on WSs for enemies.

Edit: I just had a strange thought... what about weaponskills that require an instrument equipped to use? Voidsong and lodesong might not be so overpowering to bard if they required 300 TP.

if Pianissimo makes aoe song single target then:
Fortissimo should make single target songs aoe ^^ aoe STR song or INT song or -enmity song ^^

also alternative to lullaby for crowd control: JA Cavort = confuses enemy hordes/tricks them into dancing ^^

haven't you guys been reading the posts from all the "experts", like Wish? Bard only needs 3 songs, Advancing march, Victory march, and a new tier of march. We only have 1 purpose in the game, to haste melees. After reading all of their comments I personally deleted every macro that I had on bard that wasn't for March. I also deleted all the macros for my sub-job except the spell haste. I certainly wouldn't want to argue with such experts about what our role in a party is, I've only been an end-game bard for about 4 years now.

OK, so we're dying alot more and failing alot more fights, mages in my Dynamis group run out of MP all the time (they wouldn't if they would just take the advice I'm passing on from the experts, haste isn't particularily MP intensive if that's all they would cast), but I'm sure once we get the mobs to realize that they need to cooperate by standing still and not swinging back while we swing faster we'll be fine. And being able to toss all those instruments I used to have to carry for all the non-march songs has been a godsend to my inventory, not to mention the elemental staves I no longer have to keep around. I even get to wear my gaudy harness again for the refresh so I can keep casting haste, fun!

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Originally Posted by Glamdring

haven't you guys been reading the posts from all the "experts", like Wish? Bard only needs 3 songs, Advancing march, Victory march, and a new tier of march. We only have 1 purpose in the game, to haste melees. After reading all of their comments I personally deleted every macro that I had on bard that wasn't for March. I also deleted all the macros for my sub-job except the spell haste. I certainly wouldn't want to argue with such experts about what our role in a party is, I've only been an end-game bard for about 4 years now.

OK, so we're dying alot more and failing alot more fights, mages in my Dynamis group run out of MP all the time (they wouldn't if they would just take the advice I'm passing on from the experts, haste isn't particularily MP intensive if that's all they would cast), but I'm sure once we get the mobs to realize that they need to cooperate by standing still and not swinging back while we swing faster we'll be fine. And being able to toss all those instruments I used to have to carry for all the non-march songs has been a godsend to my inventory, not to mention the elemental staves I no longer have to keep around. I even get to wear my gaudy harness again for the refresh so I can keep casting haste, fun!

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it's good to see that after 4 years you finally learned how to play brd halfway properly. It's too bad you're still doing it horribly wrong since you failed to understand that whatever ballad comments you received were probably involving mages with ATMA. Your attempt at sarcasm fails on multiple levels because it's showing that you don't even know enough about brd to mock people properly.

Interesting brainstorming session here. It'll be a bit tough to make something better than 2x marches but there's always 2x bard parties or the chance to simply use it as a 3rd song on empyrian harp. Considered short range aura effects on single target songs? songs that give people intimidation procs on beastmen/etc?

does MAB effect Foe Requiem? cuz im not equipping Eradico mitts for the -3 enm.

they should give us a dmg song like banish amount of dmg. brd is boring if your party can all take the same songs. mostly i need skill ups tho so im always recasting sleep/slow. but they are giving bst disposable pets to mimic Alexander, so why not ammo for brd that does more sonic dmg?

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Originally Posted by Defiledsickness

does MAB effect Foe Requiem? cuz im not equipping Eradico mitts for the -3 enm.

they should give us a dmg song like banish amount of dmg. brd is boring if your party can all take the same songs. mostly i need skill ups tho so im always recasting sleep/slow. but they are giving bst disposable pets to mimic Alexander, so why not ammo for brd that does more sonic dmg?

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MAB does NOT affect Requiem. Macc/Instrument Skill/etc, will affect it's accuracy and if it lands for its full duration or not though. Requiem Flute (Requiem +4) will add to its potency for 11dmg/tick with Foe's Requiem VII, so it's actually a really nice free DoT song; I'm happy that SE will hopefully let it land on more NMs now... <_<

I'm still holding out for us to get a "nuke" song lol, but I'd highly prefer it to not use ammo. That sorta seems silly. A healing type song could be quite interesting as well (Not talking about Regen either with Paeon! >.<)

I'm happy to see a MDB- song in the works for Brd too; hopefully they haven't forgotten about Horde Lullaby II though! :X

A third tier March should be extremely nice indeed... @_@ Don't feel posting exact haste numbers (#/1024), but with March+3, Advancing is about 10% Haste, Victory ~14%. With March+4, Advancing is ~11%, Victory ~15.6% Haste. So a third tier march could potentially see around 19-20% Haste... however that's considering we can ever hit the skill cap on it.

Basically this means March x2 + Haste should definitely hit the magical Haste cap (before it was shy a few %). For Daurdabla Brd's, it'll probably mean they could do March -> Minuet/Mambo/Scherzo/Etc. -> March, while still capping magical Haste and allowing for the third song to not be a gimped Minuet/Mambo/etc.

Still holding out for a TP Regain song as well though! >.<

Personally, I cannot wait to use March x3 for when I'm /dnc or /nin soloin! @___________________@

Copied and pasted from a thread I made on FFXIAH.com.

So... We have 4 JA's atm and 2 of those are merited, it'd be cool for BRD to get a few more, so I thought I'd hash out a few ideas. I know most of these might be a bit bad or stupid, but again just brainstorming.


"Legato"

Duration: 30 seconds
Recast: 2 minutes

In musical terms a Legato is 2 notes sung together smoothly.

My idea is that you can sing 2 songs as one. Use Legato, choose song one, choose song two and both songs would be cast in the time it takes one.

I'm not really fully into this idea, but I couldn't think of a better way to use the term 'Legato'

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"Staccato"

Duration: 30 seconds
Recast: 5 minutes

In musical terms a Staccato is a note that is separated from the rest with a silence.

Simply put, whilst this is active the song you sing is considered an additional song. A 3rd song without a Daurdabla and a 4th with a Daurdabla.

I think Staccato should also stack with Troubadour.

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I had an idea about being able to make a localised area of effect with a song, so if you want to hit all the mages you can target one and everyone around them will get the effect. Same with DDs to avoid running into dangerous situations.

I wouldn't mind seeing a straight up cure song being added either with a longish recast of say 30 seconds and the power of a Cure IV maybe with singing and whatever instrument skill augmenting it.

And ofc make the cast time low.

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Originally Posted by Glamdring

haven't you guys been reading the posts from all the "experts", like Wish? Bard only needs 3 songs, Advancing march, Victory march, and a new tier of march. We only have 1 purpose in the game, to haste melees. After reading all of their comments I personally deleted every macro that I had on bard that wasn't for March. I also deleted all the macros for my sub-job except the spell haste. I certainly wouldn't want to argue with such experts about what our role in a party is, I've only been an end-game bard for about 4 years now.

OK, so we're dying alot more and failing alot more fights, mages in my Dynamis group run out of MP all the time (they wouldn't if they would just take the advice I'm passing on from the experts, haste isn't particularily MP intensive if that's all they would cast), but I'm sure once we get the mobs to realize that they need to cooperate by standing still and not swinging back while we swing faster we'll be fine. And being able to toss all those instruments I used to have to carry for all the non-march songs has been a godsend to my inventory, not to mention the elemental staves I no longer have to keep around. I even get to wear my gaudy harness again for the refresh so I can keep casting haste, fun!

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You should be casting march the majority of the time. Being situational is what BRD excels at. Knowing the best song for any given situation. I know plenty of BRDs who still Scherzo for no reason when it's highly inappropriate. I've also had to suffer DD's asking for DEF songs. Inside Abyssea... March, Scherzo, Ballad and very occasionally minuet should be used for buffing. If you're using another song (Outside of Mazurka and a Paeon if the situation calls) You're doing it wrong.

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Originally Posted by Flionheart

You should be casting march the majority of the time. Being situational is what BRD excels at. Knowing the best song for any given situation. I know plenty of BRDs who still Scherzo for no reason when it's highly inappropriate. I've also had to suffer DD's asking for DEF songs. Inside Abyssea... March, Scherzo, Ballad and very occasionally minuet should be used for buffing. If you're using another song (Outside of Mazurka and a Paeon if the situation calls) You're doing it wrong.

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I hate it when Brds sing Scherzo and think that it's a straight PDT or DT-% buff... instead of knowing that it's only meant for attacks that deal 75%+ of your HP. >.<

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Originally Posted by Creelo

I hate it when Brds sing Scherzo and think that it's a straight PDT or DT-% buff... instead of knowing that it's only meant for attacks that deal 75%+ of your HP. >.<

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It's a big pain. I've tried to explain what they're doing but they seem to not realise what's going on and want to play with new shiny toys.

As an edit to my previous post; Carols can be used if the occasion calls for them.

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Originally Posted by Creelo

I hate it when Brds sing Scherzo and think that it's a straight PDT or DT-% buff... instead of knowing that it's only meant for attacks that deal 75%+ of your HP. >.<

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"What are we going to do about his hundred fists though?" "DON'T WORRY. I HAS A SKERZU!"

I have to agree that I really dislike the March / March, Elegy, (Ballad / Ballad outside of Abyssea) that brd has to do then we focus on using our SUB job. Occasionally using Lullaby or Threody.

What is also really bugging is that although our buffs are free, hit the whole party and arn't interuptable look at our maximum output... two songs. Now lets look at WHM, they can buff element resist with one spell almost as good as two corals, protect better than minne, haste as well as marchs, buff stats (mnd, vit etc), slow and sleep. And thats only what they share with us. They also have so much more under their hoods that buff as well as two of our songs.

What I would like to see is all our songs recieve a huge boost, but no longer allow them to stack, so Minuet V should infact have the same effect as IV and V currently have. This way we can use march and attack, or march and evasion or maybe even a carol when required. Dont really think it would be that over powered would it?

I simply think we should get a JA that allows a third song to be maintainable (4 songs with Daurdabla)