BST ready/sic/reward range

Someone @ SE must have typed in something wrong when they changed the range of ready/sic/reward from way out to right next to the mob. please fix this typo ASAP.....

it's working as intended....SE purposely did that to give bsts a higher risk of danger.

nope I'm pretty sure someone mistyped something

They've been talking about the change for almost a month. The range was intentionally made very short.

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Originally Posted by Fungar

nope I'm pretty sure someone mistyped something

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Originally Posted by bungiefanNA

They've been talking about the change for almost a month. The range was intentionally made very short.

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^this @ what bungie said. they purposely did it. it was to keep people who were like... "omg i'll just let my pets fight and do all the dirty work while i sit back and relax and not do a single blasted thing 20+ yalms away from the mob out of harms way" instead of actually playing bst the way it was intended to be played...a.k.a. front line job....not back line job. so yes...it's working as intended as i said first post.

There is a serious problem with this adjustment, and that is that you can be standing or fighting on the other side of a monster and you are "Out of Range", IE u have to be within 3-5 yalms from your actual pet. It's an absurdly tiny range. 10 yalms even 15 yalms is very close to the pet, and you will get any aoe effect within that range, there is no reason to make it 5 yalms. I literally can't even fight on the other side of the same monster right now and that is NOT 'working as intended.'

Standing at 10-15 yalms is dangerous business and would do the same exact thing, provide balance by forcing the beastmaster to play his role, but seriously not being able to give commands when you are already fighting the monster is stupid. This isn't balance it's job-breaking. What's next, whm having to be within 5 yalms to cast cure, a blm needing to be 5 yalm to cast a spell? A tank unable to provoke things more than 5 yalms away? A blue mage unable to cast more then 5 yalms away? A ranger unable to fire shots from 5 yalms away? How would those adjustments sound to any of you? Terrible and game-breaking. Which is exactly what this is, the height of stupidity. I'm not even a huge bst fan, but honestly I feel very bad for this job with this rediculous and unnecessary and untested nerf-bomb.

Basically if you all have any sense at all just swap to smn, it's 10x more powerful and way more unbalanced, so enjoy that job ^^ bst is useless atm. Smn got a BONUS to it's range xD which is kinda silly, but hey everyone is just going to swap over and that's all there is to it. I just feel bad for the many players who especially love playing bst and no job should get so absolutely crippled 2 months before they stop development, cmon guys feel a little empathy for the poor players who went out of their way to be specialized bsts and feel their pain. It'd be like taking away overpowered shields for plds or deleteing berserk for wars, it's just kinda heartbreaking.

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Originally Posted by Ladynamine

^this @ what bungie said. they purposely did it. it was to keep people who were like... "omg i'll just let my pets fight and do all the dirty work while i sit back and relax and not do a single blasted thing 20+ yalms away from the mob out of harms way".

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How exactly would an update that makes you have to come in closer to do things make someone who was standing out of range doing nothing do something? If they really were relaxing and not doing a thing then these adjustments mean nothing since they will continue to just not use those moves....

As far as staying away and affecting the game you mean like the other pets jobs, mages, and ranged jobs?

SMN is far squishier than BST ever will be. Also they're not stopping development, just nothing major, job adjustments are apart of the 'maintenance mode'. BST isn't useless, you'll have to adapt. I said this back in 2004, 2006 and I said it again in 2010 so I'll say it once again: When burns become a "problem" and all you see are "GIVE ME ABC JOBS ONLY FAST FAST LONG TIME" shouts flooding the 'airwaves'..you really can't expect SE to sit on their thumbs and not do anything. This was brought upon yourselves lol. I love BST but..seriously, it was done on purpose.

By the by: SMN had ranging problems for ages. Many old school SMNs can attest to trying to get a proper range, use bloodpact and it interrupts because you take a step or because the monster goes out of range just slightly only to have your avatar come prancing back to sit in your lap. Yes, it sucks that BST has to change their playstyle..but do or die. A lot of newer content does have some deadly AoEs but if you've done the content countless times, you can adapt pretty easily. But as said, the fact BST burns were a thing and pretty much others were being excluded..something was going to happen in some fashion. I don't support it fully, don't get me wrong..I just played FFXI since 2001's Japanese beta.

I know how SE operates and it was only a matter of time. Maybe it was too extreme? We'll see tomorrow. Otherwise...do or die.

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Originally Posted by dasva

How exactly would an update that makes you have to come in closer to do things make someone who was standing out of range doing nothing do something? If they really were relaxing and not doing a thing then these adjustments mean nothing since they will continue to just not use those moves....

As far as staying away and affecting the game you mean like the other pets jobs, mages, and ranged jobs?

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Actually, Corsair has to get in range at times, Geomancer has to become the equivillent of rambo at times and blue mage is always in range as is DRG and PUP (they have a pet). I get what you mean but.....it's pretty clear the main reason for this change. Be grateful they didn't focus an ENTIRE SET OF CONTENT around screwing you over like they did to anyone who isn't a piercing, non nuking specialist back during ToAU+ era.

A Corsair doesn't "have to get in range," unless they're using Numbing Shot, but it's optimal because they provide additional support by being /dnc and TPing to add steps and haste samba along with their rolling, and TPing in melee tends to be better DPS. They have the ability to move back as necessary and switch to pure ranged, it's just less optimal.

Geomancer I will agree has it harder, and with their summons being a bit more MP-intensive, the low recast isn't as good as it could be. Still, MP isn't usually a problem unless your pet dies every single move (I know mine doesn't and I'm a bit sub-par).

Blue Mage is built for melee, try again. They're no less a frontline DD than a WAR or SAM, they just have utility for multiple ranges and abilities.

Dragoon and pet are in range but the wyvern has several innate defensive bonuses that allows it to stay alive much easier than other pets.

Puppetmaster doesn't have to be in range, and in fact, most times you won't have both in range; you'll have a healer pet in the background avoiding AoE, or the master in the background directing their pet. It's not as easy to direct the pet as it is for a BST, but they can turtle up at the cost of DPS or simply just be a ranged fighter. Many of their abilities for buffing their pet come with their attachments/maneuvers and don't require them to waste gear slots on hybridization, either, only for optimization.

So... most of those arguments are moot. :|

What I don't understand is why the existing range worked just fine for 12 years and now suddenly its a problem.

I am recently back from almost 4 years ago, less than a month and a half and this? Seriously? You change the entire mechanics of a job, and make it drastically, radically and stupidly different. I can understand wanting to adjust the mechanics and shorten the distance, but this? Chase a pet around every time the mob moves, completely remove the viability of this job in many aspects and go as far as to tie a leash around the player? No thanks. All in all, I am seriously rethinking my giving FFXI another chance, I can finally solo content I've had trouble getting help in for a decade, but mess up my most used and useful job?!? Lets face it, Bst was never a "frontline" job. It was a solo, let pet duke it out, maybe run in when mob was almost dead to help most of the time or get hate and die. Survivability was always tricky and this jobs strongest point, now it is very much diminished. SE has always had serious issues with "adjustments", lets see how long it lasts. As for me, I think I'm out.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

What I don't understand is why the existing range worked just fine for 12 years and now suddenly its a problem.

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As said look at the past history of XI. Considering BST burning was the in thing and people were beginning to be salty about it, when hasn't SE started making sweeping changes to try to 'combat it'? The only burns they didn't fight was RNG burn back in sky and 'bone burns' in like 2003 simply because they died out. Like..SE make weird ass decisions some times..but really think about what spotlight BST had recently that might make SE want to "balance" it.

I am so disappointed by the recent Beastmaster Nerf. Let's take a look at how you've crippled the job over the years. Folks, please add more, but these are the 4 biggest in my mind:

1.) 2004 - Nerfing Spinning Axe from AOE to single-target.
2.) 2005 - Allowing charmed monsters to despawn when released.
3.) 2009 - Abyssea - Charm is effectively useless, permanently.
4.) 2015 - Reducing the range for job Ready/Sic abilities that have worked since the game was released!

Yes, SE has empowered beastmaster greatly over the past 2 years, but a 7-yalm distance for Sic/Ready makes it very hard for folks leveling BST from 1 to 99 and gives us nothing to protect ourselves in Difficult or Very Difficult fights? Some mobs are large and we can't tell our pet to attack from the other side of these large monsters! Also, in terms of defense, we have none. (Our shield skill is terrible, ~300?)

I'm so upset by this. If you had told me when I started this game, in 2003 that so much would be taken away from my favorite job, I would have never signed up! :(

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

What I don't understand is why the existing range worked just fine for 12 years and now suddenly its a problem.

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I've said it previously. If suddenly new content comes out and a job that was not a problem before is suddenly a problem, it's the content that's the problem and not the job.

The reason BST got as big as it did was the huuuge amount of massive AoE, combined with stupid shit like en-death I'm told one of the Escha NMs have. Players, especially glass cannon DDs who cannot understand the concept of -DT gear, can't take that. So pets were the best choice.

BST was fine for years, and was still fine even now. BST wasn't the problem, the content and the player base were and are the problem.

#2 was anti MPK measure though. So it does hurt BST..but it was done purely because said BSTs loved to MPK people on purpose with releasing aggresive high level enemies next to low level parties or to try to hinder certain fights like some ground kings back in the day.
#3 a lot of stuff was useless in Abyssea that normally was useful early on due to the dramatic change in gameplay at the time.

So it wasn't a slow progress to hurt BST..some changes were done for other reasons.

Kind of funny really, FFXI has always been about the "popular" job, the only ones people wanted, in fact, coming back to FFXI, the only thing that changed was that my job was now one of them. I chose drg and bst because I enjoyed them, they were unpopular, avoided and ignored, but solo class. Best part of drg and bst back in the day: didn't need a party for exp (though drg was very slow pre-AF helm) and Relic Armor was easy to get, worst part: game content was not. That is why I ended up quitting, could never accomplish anything. There have always been preferred jobs, there have always been massively overpowered jobs, and there have always been overplayed jobs. This update did not actually correct anything, it just removed one job from the top categories, put it on the bottom, slapped some players in the face and said your fired, bst now has leprosy, hepatitis and AIDS, get a new job. Waste some more time gearing it, lvling it and getting used to it.

Let's face it, this game is all about best utilizing the tools acquirable and/or attainable, and now bst is be a good dd and die, or too weak and possibly survive.

SE is either clueless or trying to get people to quit and try their new MMO. Well, I would rather play WoW, and I am not going to, because, well, I hate WoW... So, I am going to play FFVII, read some books and watch some movies. I'll check back in a few days and see if it's fixed, but we know SE, so yeah, not gonna happen, try and have fun and sorry to you other bsts out there. Really sorry to you new ones, at least I am used to it lol.

I guess it's time to put all my BST gear on my mules. I could have dealt with it if they just nerfed pet moves back to the total crap they were before. At least then I could still derp around on BST like I used to, solo stuff, etc, but this just ruins the job completely.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

What I don't understand is why the existing range worked just fine for 12 years and now suddenly its a problem.

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They wanted bst to engage in combat but painted themselves into a corner with their previous adjustments and statements. Right now they are thinking that if bst is forced into danger they will put down charmer's merlin and actually fight, but they won't. They should have either required ready moves to have 1000 tp to be used again or capped ready moves at 15. I honestly think they should have went with the 15 second ready timers. At least that way the master could focus on their accuracy and only worry about the pet during ready moves.

I have been playing this game since the release on PS2........ And this has just ruined the game for me completely.... SE why did this range need adjustment when there was nothing wrong with it to start? Bst have pets so their pets can fight for their masters, it doesn't make sense to stand next to a mob of lv120+ for us to die in a instant... Our gear is made to give our pets an advantage, not the other way around.... Please adjust this, I want to be able to play the game I have been enjoying for years now. If this isn't fixed I'll just end up canceling my accounts..... and I don't want to do that because there is still a lot this game has to offer. Fix it, please.

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1.) 2004 - Nerfing Spinning Axe from AOE to single-target.

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To be fair, AoE WS seem to see much more use now than they did back then. I don't remember any uproar over this back when it happened. In hindsight though it ended up being a belated middle finger when AoE WS and AoE magic spam both became much more common.

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2.) 2005 - Allowing charmed monsters to despawn when released.

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This is one of those "this is why we can't have nice things" things. The actions of a few trolls caused this to happen (BSTs dumping aggroing mobs on EXP parties to wipe them). Even so, I can't say I miss the monster trains of the old days before despawning out of a mob's home area was implemented. (They should have just put in leashing instead)

The range is too short. If i can't be ENGAGED behind the mob and give my pet a command then something is wrong. Needs a slight adjustment to around 7-10 yalms.

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Originally Posted by Skyrant_Kangaroomouse

The range is too short. If i can't be ENGAGED behind the mob and give my pet a command then something is wrong. Needs a slight adjustment to around 7-10 yalms.

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I just tested it out yes you can be behind the mob you just need to be in range.

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Originally Posted by Morovich

I just tested it out yes you can be behind the mob you just need to be in range.

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True, but that is also the problem. Your pet engages the enemy at 3-5 yalms away, which means you cannot be at maximum fighting range. If You are doing damage and you are in range of the monster that is perfectly in line with the reasoning they gave for why they implemented this adjustment. ATM, You have 4 choices: A) walk up and kiss the behind of the monster or occupy the exact location of the monster you may miss many commands you thought you issued due to knockbacks and whatnot. B) Swivel around the monster every 10 seconds or so to give commands by mashing your ready macro. C) Re-position your pet to occupy the same space as the monster after both you and your pet have engaged the monster, this will also cause the monster to spew out conal aoe's in every direction and is very much not recommended. D) Stand in front of the monster anyways so that you can actually do your job, but you will get killed by conal aoe's and nasty knockback/stun effects will interrupt you and ruin your day.

We need a 10-15 yalm distance to be able to stand on the other side of the monster. It's called tactics and standing behind the monster is pretty much one of the main one used by all jobs that are kinds squishy dd's which is basically what the player bst is. You're in range, you're doing your job, you're actually engaged, I don't see why this wouldn't be ok? this tiny range is garbage and extremely untested poppycock. We deserve a well-balanced adjustment if there is to be one and this is a crippling blow to the job, you should all be worried for other jobs if they decide to go this route, whats to stop them from crippling other ranged advantages? I think the real good argument is why they think it's necessary to change the job after 12 years? Bst was being used the most because of a lack of players. It's hard to get 6 ppl together to do anything these days and trusts aren't really replacements. So 3 ppl can go in as bst and do the job of 6 ppl and that's basically what SE has been gearing the game for the past year or so. So tell me how is crippling one of the solo-ish jobs good for the game when the game is winding down to solo only? There is no reason for this, it's a late stab at the few remaining ppl what 12-15k across all servers atm (many of those multiboxing accounts). The problem SE was that YOU failed to merge the servers in a reasonable amount of time. That is the real reason that ppl were bst'ing up all the content. Had you merged, ppl would not have been forced to use bst as they had. Luckily we'll soon get merges, but still this is a very intense nerf and probably too big of one for many players who adore playing beastmaster. I personally will do just fine with it cuz bst isn't my main or anything, i got friends and content will go just as smoothly as it always has, but I really feel for the main bsts, they did not deserve this and I know several small shells revolving around bst mechanics that are going to implode because of this :( None of us should be be happy about it as this doesn't fix anything. Jobs that died to nms will still die to nms that's why they weren't allowed to come before that's why they still wont be allowed to come. People will range kill with rangers/cor/smn/blu and have a rune fencer or pld tank it as they always have. It's the small shells, the brother/sister groups and three man teams that will suffer. Just get used to seeing more merc'ed content now. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer :(

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Actually, Corsair has to get in range at times, Geomancer has to become the equivillent of rambo at times and blue mage is always in range as is DRG and PUP (they have a pet). I get what you mean but.....it's pretty clear the main reason for this change. Be grateful they didn't focus an ENTIRE SET OF CONTENT around screwing you over like they did to anyone who isn't a piercing, non nuking specialist back during ToAU+ era.

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Well not sure I'd consider twice every what is it 8.5 minutes is quite the same for cor. A lot of fights will be over and even if they weren't rolls can have over twice the range that bst ready moves do.

Geos often don't go in though and when they do they can idle in full defensive gear most the time and not worry about the loupon for the most part.

Blu yeah for most of it's stuff though they do have some ranged. But a lot of that is they melee and in fact melee really well.

Drg does but their pet also has huge innate DTs, granted large buffs to the drg, their heals them and well they have always been designed to be a melee though sometimes a lol one while bst has been pushed for it's pets for awhile now and so the crazy builds you had involved weapon swapping and losing tp which kind of discourages meleeing... on the other hand not doing it lowers your pets dmg by over 33% plus having to spend so much time using ready lowers your dps as well by a lot. I mean yeah if they jugs got an innate what 30% DT, and keeping it out gave the master a bunch of ja haste and attack and def then yeah it would be more similar.

Pups can and if they are doing things endgame send the auto in and use maneuvers from afar. In fact I don't there even is a range at all for that. I've certainly done it far enough away I couldn't see the mob


As far as the ToAU comparison it's sort of the opposite. That was mostly the overwhelming preference for merits other jobs got the nod in actual endgame. While this doesn't really change anything for cping unless those crazy hard new ones change things but does make it less desirable for the actual content.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

What I don't understand is why the existing range worked just fine for 12 years and now suddenly its a problem.

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Probably because for 12 years using ready was a dps loss for the pet never mind the master and bsts were 99.9% solo (a large portion of the earlier years with charmed pets even) so no one paid them any attention. Now that ready and the job is actually useful all the people who hadn't played it until recently think bst being at range is a new thing

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Originally Posted by Elexia

#2 was anti MPK measure though. So it does hurt BST..but it was done purely because said BSTs loved to MPK people on purpose with releasing aggresive high level enemies next to low level parties or to try to hinder certain fights like some ground kings back in the day.
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Well bst wasn't the only reason and it wasn't even really specifically charmed mobs so much as non nms not near there spawn area because all kinds of people would train things (who remembers the death roulette of trying to enter some zones?) and yeah bsts would also sometimes charm pull stuff and despawn. It just had the unfortunate effect of hitting legitimate bst play

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I just tested it out yes you can be behind the mob you just need to be in range.

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Bullshit! Maybe on some small mobs like rabbits and crabs. Any bigger mob you will not be able to issue commands at all. On big Boss mobs, forget it completely. You can melee but you wont be able to issue commands unless you stand right next to your pet. Get knocked back or pet/boss adjusts which they do a lot then you need to keep adjusting too finding the "Sweet spot". It has become a game of trial and error or just stand on top of your pet.

The range is so short i have to constantly adjust and try multiple times to issue commands during fights.

This is annoying and needs to be changed.

Seriously can the bst haters at least admit they overdid this nerf? We should at least be able to solo.

...Why are we repeating things in two different threads? Seriously? Spamming's just going to get the threads locked and no progress made. Answer once, leave it at that.

That being said, I agree with this being a poor choice of range. Something more akin to swapping SMN and BST's ranges would have been more tolerable; having to run in and out might put us at risk, but that's where our choice of timing comes in. Sure, we're going to lose DPS, but at least we're not nearly as useless as we are now. Because of our need to gear for two instead of one, the way things currently are, BST is unplayable. Either your pet dies quickly, leaving you with rather weak damage, or you die, leaving you with no damage. Either you hit, meaning your pet misses and does less damage, or your pet hits, and you miss and do less damage. We are in desperate need of hybridized gear, and a slight range increase so that we don't have to stand directly on top of our pet to do things.

It seems pretty silly to put this sort of limitation on BSTs only, and not SMNs and PUPs.

Honestly, at this stage of the game's life, it was pretty silly to do this, period.

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Originally Posted by Skyrant_Kangaroomouse

Bullshit! Maybe on some small mobs like rabbits and crabs. Any bigger mob you will not be able to issue commands at all. On big Boss mobs, forget it completely. You can melee but you wont be able to issue commands unless you stand right next to your pet. Get knocked back or pet/boss adjusts which they do a lot then you need to keep adjusting too finding the "Sweet spot". It has become a game of trial and error or just stand on top of your pet.

The range is so short i have to constantly adjust and try multiple times to issue commands during fights.

This is annoying and needs to be changed.

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This was my experience as well, and I was meleeing WITH my pet the whole time, not trying to run in and out to do TP moves. This is purely spiteful.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

It seems pretty silly to put this sort of limitation on BSTs only, and not SMNs and PUPs.

Honestly, at this stage of the game's life, it was pretty silly to do this, period.

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SMN had issues (for more severe than BST ever did) for the longest and they finally got them in a good spot over the years. PUP had it's own set of issues (largely attachment availability as well) and after adjustments was put in a nice spot. Why would they put limitation on SMN and PUPs? SMN had range problems for so long and let's not even get into perp cost and treating them more as a back up healer in the very early years.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

SMN had issues (for more severe than BST ever did) for the longest and they finally got them in a good spot over the years. PUP had it's own set of issues (largely attachment availability as well) and after adjustments was put in a nice spot. Why would they put limitation on SMN and PUPs? SMN had range problems for so long and let's not even get into perp cost and treating them more as a back up healer in the very early years.

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I agree with you (though I'd argue BST has also had severe issues, albeit different. I've duoed with SMN and PUP, and we've commiserated over the years), but why do this to BST either? Particularly to this level. Would you like to be unable to do Avatar moves even if you were meleeing right beside your pet because your pet wasn't close enough?

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SMN had issues (for more severe than BST ever did) for the longest and they finally got them in a good spot over the years.

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SMN had a lot of desirability for many endgame events for a while thanks to Perfect Defense.

Tell me when BSTs have ever been desired for content by anyone except other pet jobs.

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Why would they put limitation on SMN and PUPs?

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Why would they put one on BST?

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SMN had a lot of desirability for many endgame events for a while thanks to Perfect Defense.

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It wasn't all that cool being known for our 2-hour and nothing else.

I just want the old range back. Anything else it not acceptable.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

SMN had issues (for more severe than BST ever did) for the longest and they finally got them in a good spot over the years. PUP had it's own set of issues (largely attachment availability as well) and after adjustments was put in a nice spot. Why would they put limitation on SMN and PUPs? SMN had range problems for so long and let's not even get into perp cost and treating them more as a back up healer in the very early years.

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SMN has had no issues at all for years now. They even get their own personal end game gear and plenty of rings. On SMN i am never in any danger, even before the now ridiculous range.

BST is now broken because the gear is one sided:

If i augment my end game gear for melee my pet can't hit the mobs.
If i augment my end game gear for my pet then i can't hit the mobs.

You can't have it both ways, SE

Argosy Armor Set Not a single pet stat on it. Not a single path for Pet stats.
Lustratio Armor Set Not a single pet stat on it. Not a single path for Pet stats.
Rao Armor Set One pet Path. Not enough Accuracy for either pet or Beastmaster to hit 1100+ needed for endgame.
Emicho Armor Set 2 Pet Paths. Pet or Beastmaster can hit 1100+ accuracy needed for endgame.

I have been a BST (and SMN) since the beginning of the game when BST would still charm. They forced BST to be like SMN with jug pets and i accepted it and adjusted my gameplay. I started a Mythic for BST and now SE ruins the job completely. I want to change my Mythic now. If i can't do that or they don't adjust this ridiculous change i will let my subscription lapse. There are plenty of other games out there.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

It wasn't all that cool being known for our 2-hour and nothing else.

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Except that during that entire time, no one wanted BST for anything, period. There was no reason to nerf any of these jobs. Despite the hyperbole on this forum claiming that everything is BST onry, none of these jobs are as popular as BLU or THF.

In theory it would be nice to be able to draw my axes in battle and contribute from the master-side but no gear is designed with master and pet both in mind, at the same time. Please, simply undo the range-nerf as at this stage of the game I don't want any developer time wasted trying to make BST usable again after forcing us to play 100% differently than we (ever) have.

Many other things need developer attention. The fact BST is powerful once an hour on relevant content isn't enough of a reason to ruin the job in 100% of situations. Please just restore the ranges to what they were pre-nerf and lets move on to more important things needing addressed before we lose precious developer time.

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Originally Posted by Arthos

I just want the old range back. Anything else it not acceptable.

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I would be more than happy with a 10-15 yalm range instead of this ridiculous 5 yalm nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Skyrant_Kangaroomouse

I would be more than happy with a 10-15 yalm range instead of this ridiculous 5 yalm nonsense.

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I wouldn't be. We still can't gear for both master and pet. If they want us to engage they have to make us stop choosing which of us is going to whiff.