Sam atmas

Which do main sam's typically use? my sam has been kinda retired since i lvl'd war, but was thinking of getting it back up to 90, but the atma's i use for war dont seem to be best for sam

I've been using Voracious Violet, Smiting Blow, and Sun Eater whenever I'm fighting something that goes down easily. The extra Store TP and Conserve TP makes things pretty easy with /DNC.

Depending on Weapon
VV/RR/Apoc
VV/SB/Apoc

Why would you use a STP atma?

Personally I just fulltime Atma of the Changing Job on SAM, but otherwise what Gunit said.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Personally I just fulltime Atma of the Changing Job on SAM, but otherwise what Gunit said.

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lol good call.

It is more situational and I haven't yet put it through proper testing, but I'll be using VV, Smiting Blow, and Strong Arm for SAM/RNG, emphasis on the /rng. Unless you know of a better setup for Refulgent Arrow that you'd like to submit for further testing I think these work best in this situation.

Any other time, Atma of the Apocalypse Triple Attack is nice, because you practically WS every other attack round on a good GK and not a Soboro. auto RRIII is always nice too.
Voracious Violet is a nice one because of the STR +50, Double Attack +5%, and Regain +2. Self-Explanitory
Raised Ruin isn't quite as significant to Samurai because of our lack of Crit WS, but the amount of crits over time and the damage increase certainly helps. Wouldn't recommend though for events and NMs when you are on the back line and running in for WS.
Smiting Blow has TP bonus superior, as well as WS accuracy. This is something you absolutely should be using when not regularly TPing on the NM and running in to WS.

So yes, pretty much what Gunit said.

Smiting Blow & VV are a given, 3rd Atma should be based on whatever you're doing and what weapon you have.

Razed Ruins can actually be great for Masamune SAM since the aftermath applies to critical hits which means if you get a double damage proc on a crit you can easily smack mobs for 700+ a swing. But otherwise I like Sundering Slash for the extra Regain + Attack.

The main reason for Suneater is to help enable a 4-hit build btw. I believe it's possible to do without it, but you have to have top-notch STP gear and eat carbonara. If you can manage 4-hit without Atma with a Masamune (it's possible) then you should definitely use either Razed Ruins or Griffon Claw (WS DMG +20%!) for your 3rd Atma.

Apocalypse/ Alpha/Omega say sup

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Originally Posted by Malacite

. If you can manage 4-hit without Atma with a Masamune (it's possible) then you should definitely use either Razed Ruins or Griffon Claw (WS DMG +20%!) for your 3rd Atma.

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I think if you manage to 4hit masa without atma you should use a haste atma (dont think you can cap haste and 4hit without atmas)

I think Alpha&Omega is a good substitute for RR because it boosts both types of damage. So even if you're holding back to avoid ruby or ganking, it'll still be a good choice. That having been said, RR is so strong, even at a 30/70 melee/WS split, it'll be better than Smiting Blow. I personally think it's between VV/A&O/Apoc and VV/RR/Apoc.

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Originally Posted by Malacite

Smiting Blow & VV are a given, 3rd Atma should be based on whatever you're doing and what weapon you have.

Razed Ruins can actually be great for Masamune SAM since the aftermath applies to critical hits which means if you get a double damage proc on a crit you can easily smack mobs for 700+ a swing. But otherwise I like Sundering Slash for the extra Regain + Attack.

The main reason for Suneater is to help enable a 4-hit build btw. I believe it's possible to do without it, but you have to have top-notch STP gear and eat carbonara. If you can manage 4-hit without Atma with a Masamune (it's possible) then you should definitely use either Razed Ruins or Griffon Claw (WS DMG +20%!) for your 3rd Atma.

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Please don't give SAM advice.

Stacking Regain/Store TP atma is terrible advice. If you want to increase WS frequency, Apoc and A&O will contribute more to that goal than Sun Eater.

If you can't comfortably 5-hit with your weapon and gear selection, try a 6-hit with Sword Strap. If that doesn't work, try a 6-hit with Rose Strap. If you've got very good gear and a 480-delay GKT such as Kikugosaku, a 4-hit build is possible.

Depending on what you're fighting, you'll typically want some combination of Apoc, A&O, Razed Ruins, and Voracious Violet. Only stack regain atma if you're not engaging and are there for red/blue triggers.

Depending on gear/GK using Atma of the Plaguebringer/Apoc/VV was a nice combo for me. I had a normal 6 hit build (normal 450 delay) then 5 hit with Orthus GK, however I soon discovered that with Atma of the Plaguebringer I was able to take my 5 hit build down to a 4 hit. Couple that with Apoc (triple attack), VV (Double attack), and also the extra Double attack chance on Plaguebringer, I was a WS machine able to self SC with self and even 3 WS light at times by self (not even using Sekkanoki). This was an amazing set up for SAM tanking in abyssea with HP of 3k+ and Seigan Third Eye and 0 sacrafice to gear slots and haste.

For SAM atma choices, you always want VV/Apoc, and the third you choose based on situation. I'm pretty sure that Scorpion Queen is the tops of the Store TP atmas, damage-wise anyways. Plaguebringer could be useful for the Regen, but the 10% crit rate of SQ should beat out Plaguebringer's double attack and Suneater's conserve-TP. I don't mean to burst your bubble about Plaguebringer, but the likely 5% double attack on it probably isn't doing a whole lot for you compared to what other atmas can do.

If you have a true 5-hit and any sort of haste buff, it shouldn't be hard to make self SC's. Without any buffs at all, I can 2 step SC (Fudo+Fudo=Light) with just Meditate.

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Originally Posted by Jacs

For SAM atma choices, you always want VV/Apoc, and the third you choose based on situation. I'm pretty sure that Scorpion Queen is the tops of the Store TP atmas, damage-wise anyways. Plaguebringer could be useful for the Regen, but the 10% crit rate of SQ should beat out Plaguebringer's double attack and Suneater's conserve-TP. I don't mean to burst your bubble about Plaguebringer, but the likely 5% double attack on it probably isn't doing a whole lot for you compared to what other atmas can do.

If you have a true 5-hit and any sort of haste buff, it shouldn't be hard to make self SC's. Without any buffs at all, I can 2 step SC (Fudo+Fudo=Light) with just Meditate.

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Giving up Razed Ruins is a huge loss of TP-phase damage. It's not only for jobs with critical weapon skills.

It's not as big a loss for SAM because they don't have a critical hit weaponskill. It's a fair option if you have Masamune for Aftermath but it's not as big a gap between other atma as jobs with critical hit weaponskills. Alpha/Omega can fare competitively for example.

A&O is a good option for SAM, but you'd be better off switching out the non-RR/Apoc atma. Ensuring dDEX is capped and getting an additional 30% crit rate/damage is very substantial, even for jobs without critical hit WS.

Its going to depend if you have fudo or not too. Gear set up and ws mods are completely different from the standard Y/G/K setup.

WS setup varies in certain slots, but it's really not completely different. Pure STR vs. balanced STR/ATT. Fudo is a 60% STR WS with high fTP and no ATT boost, and Y/G/K are 75% STR WS with lowish fTP and a large ATT boost.

Grips not included, as they'll vary depending on TP gear.
Ideal Y/G/K: http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/215433
Ideal Fudo: http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/215435

The ideal Fudo build will become even more similar to the Y/G/K build the closer you get to capping attack against the target, until the point that they're identical.

If a SAM doesn't have Fudo, he should really be considering Penta Thrust or even Rana instead of Y/G/K. Y/G/K is far from optimal in situations where one can expect to have a significant amount of ATT/ACC.

RR/Apoc are dead certain atma's to use (Masa/Amano or not), 3rd is purely situational.

If you cannot achieve a decent 5hit build then VV, otherwise Smiting Blow or Griffon's Claw - The latter being supreme.

Decent 5hit being - http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/185407

Edit: You should include Atheling Mantle in your WS set, they might be outdated idk.

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Originally Posted by Invasion

If you cannot achieve a decent 5hit build then VV, otherwise Smiting Blow or Griffon's Claw - The latter being supreme.

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Nah. Keep the VV and swap out the Tactical for Atheling, or use Alpha & Omega.

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Originally Posted by Invasion

Edit: You should include Atheling Mantle in your WS set, they might be outdated idk.

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It's going to depend on how close you are coming to capping ATT. The closer you come, the more Unkai pulls ahead.

Also, whether you want to use a 5-hit or a 6-hit is going to depend on your total haste values. The more haste you are receiving, the better an ideal 6-hit build becomes, due to the two-second delay after a WS and before the following melee round.

In Abyssea, it's an even larger factor due to the triple attack and double attack atma. But really, who plays SAM in Abyssea?

I'm sorry but I disagree with using VV and Atheling over GC and Tactical, the main thing your choices have is 35atk during TP, which is only slightly beneficial for aftermath proc. Going from 15>23% DA nets you just under 6% due to the diminishing returns. RR/Apoc/A&O I can agree with somewhat, I did overlook that atma.

The fact I carry less DA is why I include Atheling Mantle in my WS set, As I seemingly have 8% less DA than what you have, the gains from 3% DA from the mantle outweigh 5STR, berserk or not.

No, staying with VV and using Atheling is 50 STR, 72.5 ATT, and 7% Double Attack.

I'm still playing around with my Masamune but so far I like...
Apoc: rr3, triple attack (for aftermath)
VV: regain, str+, double attack (again for aftermath)
RR: dex+, crit+ (again aftermath)
From what I've seen so far Masamune does pretty good ws's 1k up to 4k (depending on mob I'm sure can be more) but my biggest gain I see is keeping the aftermath on and critting like a mad man for 800-1k and see a double attack or triple attack kick in. I'm sure there are better atmas for other situations, but these 3 are most common for my Masamune atm.

playing around with VV/apoc/A&O and demonry ring (increase TA dmg)

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Originally Posted by Amoklauf

So even if you're holding back to avoid ruby or ganking,

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This is really more a general point than SAM-related per se, but you shouldn't generally be trying to avoid ruby in really any situation I can think of.

That said, I'm kind of interested in seeing a TP Bonus Keito/RR/Apoc/Gales build with Jinpu, because from what I've seen it's just behind Y/G/K in Abyssea even without Gales; an easy way to build amber single-target is not the worst niche for SAM to fill in Abyssea.

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Originally Posted by scaevola

This is really more a general point than SAM-related per se, but you shouldn't generally be trying to avoid ruby in really any situation I can think of.

That said, I'm kind of interested in seeing a TP Bonus Keito/RR/Apoc/Gales build with Jinpu, because from what I've seen it's just behind Y/G/K in Abyssea even without Gales; an easy way to build amber single-target is not the worst niche for SAM to fill in Abyssea.

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jinpu is weird, it's an hybrid WS, doesn't do constant dmg like other ele WS, can fully miss, can do anything from 100 to >3k (with 0 buff for magic)

It's an ele WS that behaves like a physical WS but does wind damage and is thus modified by Gales. What's not to like?

The biggest problem with amber farming is not that elemental weapon skills are weak; it's that they are weak, difficult to build up without investing atmas and thus limiting the rest of your damage, and most of all require you to land kills with them when they scarcely do more damage than your regular attacks.

Aeolian Edge is curently very popular for amber farming and people assume this is entirely because it's AoE, but the cleave aspect of it would not be enough to recommend a WS that does scarcely 500 damage from jobs that crit regular swings for 250 every half-second or less. The real benefit of Aeolian Edge is that it allows you to disengage when a mob is at 1-3% health and build TP on something else, killing it with the AoE. This prevents accidental death by melee, which is a huge, unavoidable problem for Aeolian and amber farming in general unless you're forgoing crit atma to give yourself more of a "kill window" for Aeolian. And if you do that, well, you're immediately giving up the benefit of any amber accuracy you've gained by tanking your kill speed.

Jinpu, however, is quite strong, and becomes stronger with all the atmas you'd want to set anyway. It can easily get up to 2k damage with a conventional (if above-average) setup and thus enables a SAM to not only build amber quickly and reliably, but with a lot more flexibility than a THF or DNC "cleaving" with Aeolian. I've always wondered why it isn't considered more of a selling point for SAM.

Problem with SAM is what to do once you've got lights capped.

Limited AoE farming capability, limited red !! capability, limited blue !! capability, and zero yellow !! capability.

There are much better options for DD-slots in Abyssea groups.

SAM can solo trash just fine, and being able to cap amber solo in relatively short order opens up the best farming in the game, not to mention KI pop sets you can easily pawn off to Random Ninja Working on Kannagi #425637146 for any drops you might want.

Sobek pop set in maybe two hours tops, hand it to a NIN in the area in return for whatever +2 drops I want (why would he need them?), make 150k in vendor trash in the process as well as maybe 30k? cruor from making a cruor chain, all done alone. I do it all the time on DNC, which is of course a better soloer on SAM but it only matters for the T1s, in which case you just switch to a job that can do it.

I like how you argued with me, and then used the last line to take it all back and agree with me instead.

hell's guardian/omnipotent/full set after zanshin update?
if zanshin is applied before multi attack and rate on hit is same than rate on miss (45% base)

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Originally Posted by Ryozen

I like how you argued with me, and then used the last line to take it all back and agree with me instead.

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Huh?

When I said SAM is probably pretty good for farming up amber, that's exactly what I meant. I never said I'd want to fight T1 NMs on SAM, but I guess your position is a job is worthless if it can't do everything at the same time?

SAM's good at farming amber. But after you've farmed amber, there's not really anything worthwhile to do, except farm trash mobs one at a time.

You said so yourself.