Adjustments to some old spells

It's great we're starting to see adjustments to old spells like Etudes, Poison and Blind which have long since been forgotten as battle tactics for jobs that can cast them.
Elemental magic has seen extreme reductions to both MP cost, Damage, cast time, and recast speed. That being said, Banish spells and especially Holy spells are, by comparison, extraordinarily expensive for the damage they deal.

Why can't Banish spells be on par with their elemental counterparts? Or at least lower their cast and recast speeds so they're not completely worthless except for the 2% of the time you're fighting Undead...in which case hardly anyone remembers to cast them.

Secondly, Holy spells are the worst culprits. Holy is 100 MP and Holy II is 150MP. White Mages hardly remember to cast it even though they pretty much are in Afflatus: Solace all the time. Reason being, it's nearly 8-10% of their max MP pool for a pittance worth of damage unless they have a magic attack bonus set(which WHM doesn't get much of, let alone PLD). Speaking of PLD Holy II actually does a decent chunk of damage...usually 2-3k with Divine Emblem. Problem with this is, Divine Emblem is a 10minute ability, leaving Holy II a spell to only be used once every 10min? Even at that, most mobs HNMs and fights have a high resistance to magic that requires a lot of magic accuracy which PLD doesn't have. So even with Divine Emblem, if I use it with Holy II on a Delve boss or an Ark Angel, it will be lucky to break 500 damage.

Here's my list of spell candidates for future revision:

Banish->Damage increase/MP Cost Reduction/Cast Speed Reduction
Holy->Damage Increase
Enspell II->Uses Enhancing skill at time of cast/Damage is dealt on additional hits
Blink->Scales with Enhancing Skill, 3-4 shadows with 500 skill(BLU gets 10,NIN gets 6)
Adoloquium->Double Potency under Tabula Rasa
Requium->Delivers step-wise, increasing DoT every tick until it wears off. i.e 10->12->14->16

Also here's my candidate list for new spells with gifts:

WHM: Barspellra II's, Banish IV
RDM: Barspell II's, Cure V, Might(+Att), Faith(+MAB), Saber(Temper II)
SCH: TierVI Nukes, Adolquium II, Cure V
DRK: Stun II
PLD: Flash II
RUN: Temper, Foil II
GEO: -ara III's.
BLM: Elemental Debuffs II: Shock II/Rasp II/Frost II, etc
BRD: Wyrmfoe Mambo, Saber Madrigal, Sniper's Prelude, Champion March, Massacre Elegy, Cactuar Mazurka

Yeah, I don't know what they were thinking making divine emblem on a 10 minute timer. It wouldn't even be game breaking with a 1 minute timer, and would help plds keep hate without needed an army of rngs. Pretty much agree with all the added spells only I think run should also get Barspells II, as well as bardark and barlight. Also wouldn't mind run getting sneak invis and deodorize below level 49 so you get it while subbing run

Divine Emblem, Magic bursted Holy II on a D Avatar fight.... 260 DMG. Yeah, this could use some adjustment.

Stoneskin. Raise the cap.
WHM: Barlightra and Bardarkra I and II. Seriously, it's about time.
PLD: Flashga. Just do it SE.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

RDM: Barspell II's, Cure V, Might(+Att), Faith(+MAB), Saber(Temper II)

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From the FFXI Forum post [dev1029] SCH Feedback:

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Originally Posted by Camate

I know there has been a lot of discussion regarding Regen and Cure V around the forums, so I wanted to pass along feedback that we received from the dev. team that Mocchi posted up earlier today.



In regards to wanting to the ability to cast Regen on alliance members, there have been a lot of people commenting on this, so we will be looking into making this an effect limited to scholar. We are going to need some time to develop and test this out so please give us a bit of time.

Also, thanks a lot for your Regen effect suggestions. We will take them into consideration.

In regards to the topic on Cure V which has cropped up in various other threads, I would like to inform you of our current direction.

We are looking at two main points:

1. The HP recovery amount of Cure III and IV are too low, and it’s hard to keep up with healing
2. Making each job’s specialty stand out more

With the level cap being increased and HP/damage taken amounts increasing, we understand that HP recovery amounts are low; however, we feel that making it possible to have every job that can use cure able to handle things all on their own is a completely different story.

While it’s possible for other jobs to help out with curing and cast support magic, which in turn create conditions making it easier to cure and also reduce the amount of cure-related stress, the job we have designated to be the main healer is white mage. Due to this, we do not currently have any plans of allowing jobs other than white mage to use Cure V.

However, the solution isn’t to limit the functionality of those jobs that assist with curing. So one possibility we’re considering is increasing the influence of the healing skill and MND, as well as increasing the HP recovery amount more than it is currently.

We believe this would involve making adjustments to jobs that have healing skill to improve the amount of HP recovered, but due to the fact that we will also be implementing cure potency equipment, implementing this aspect is simply one issue under consideration.

With that said our goal is not to make it so a certain job’s advantages are given to other jobs so they are able to do the same thing, instead we would like to look into how we can keep each job’s specialties intact and create ways that they can support other jobs.

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With that said, its probably unlikely we won't see a Cure V ever for RDM. However this post is dated back 11-02-2011 and alot has happened since that post. In my opinion tho, RDM shouldn't get Cure V as a Gift (I'm not saying it's not gonna happen....but I feel it would break the job). They were never intended to be a main healer in Lv. 75 days in parties and endgame, they should not intend be a main healer in today's parties and endgame.

As far as divine magic goes, yes I think there needs to be an adjustment or 2....Holy and Holy II's MP cost needs to be cut (at most) by half.

Definitely agree on Barlight and Bardark, single target and aoe. I'd also like to see the ban on Hastega I lifted given all the Haste II sources now. WHM getting Hastega and Accession + Haste working. Definitely agree on Enspell II being something.. anything different because Enhancing skill on impact is just ridiculous.

So why does the so called "Healing specialist" get enfeebling spells all the way up to 93 and enhancing magic up to 99, but the Enfeebling specialist, which also has Healing Skill, get their last cure at 48. Wah wah wah, WHM should specialize in cures-->yet they still get Addle and Boost spells which are RDM spells.

Right now there's only 1 healer class as far as content is concerned; White Mage.

So tell me, why does WHM get to have a princress role as sole healer. There's over 15 DD jobs, 4 nukers and 3 tanks nand they all compete for slots, but the healer role gets it's own throne in the alliance of content. Why can't WHM have competition with other healer classes like SCH and RDM. They could give Cure V to SCH and RDM, but remove the special enmity property it has when cast by those job.

Or invent a new spell, call it Curja/Curasa(like FF13) and make it heal based on the proportion of HP missing, making it about Cure V potency when the target is below 40% health(capping out at roughly Cure V potency) but when cast above 70%, it's as strong as a Cure IV. That way SCH and RDM have an answer for a situation when a party member drops to 10% HP and Cure IV isn't enough.

Umm ... why would you want Cure V anyway? It's inefficient and with enmity being so easy to get it's not even that big a deal. Cure V wouldn't allow RDM to main heal any more then it can now because Cure V isn't what enables WHM's to main heal so well. Curaga III / IV are the tools that make WHM required in some circumstances as those allow the WHM to counter TP moves with one cast and not have to deal with the 3s global lockout between single target cures.

Seriously get off the Cure V platform already, Cure IV is 88MP and heals for ~900 HP, it's better then Cure V.

As I just said~ there are emergencies where a Cure IV doesn't cut it. With a 3s recast for Cure IV, if a tank or DD eats a huge move and drops to 12 HP a Cure IV may not stave them off for another TP move a few seconds later, especially fights where TP moves occur every 6 seconds(Delve MB's, AA's). Alternating Cure IV and Cure III on a DD that just lost a ton of HP really sucks. SE gave RDM Tier5 nukes, what's really so wrong with Cure V? Why are people so against it? If it doesn't hurt WHM, since they have Cure skin and Curagas, then why not give RDM and SCH Cure V? You keep saying they don't need it, but did NIN need Utsu San? Did RDM need Tier5 nukes? At least let RDM counter TP moves for one party member, we can barely do that with the pitiful cure potency of Cure IV and Cure III, looking at about 1500 cure between the two of those spells within 5 seconds which is a toss up for being effective or not in a hard fight. Just doesn't make sense to me. WHM didn't need any new enfeebles or enhancing past level 40 because they are healers, yet they get a few all the way up to 93, so logically, why does RDM only get its last cure spell at like level 40?

If RDM is a jack of all trades, and we get Tier 5 nukes, at level 99 with JP, then what does it say about our healing ability(not just potency but # of players we can cure in a short period of time). At least Cure 5 and Cure IV could be alternated to heal a party of 6 in about 10-15-seconds. As of right now, healing a party of 6 with a RDM takes about 30 seconds. WHM can heal a party of 6 with one spell, in about 1.5 seconds.

Make Afflatus Solace able to be subbed, and let other mage jobs to equip Sifahir Slacks. Boom, sch and rdm healing fixed.

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As I just said~ there are emergencies where a Cure IV doesn't cut it. With a 3s recast for Cure IV, if a tank or DD eats a huge move and drops to 12 HP a Cure IV may not stave them off for another TP move a few seconds later, especially fights where TP moves occur every 6 seconds(Delve MB's, AA's)

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Umm Oph ... I don't know how to break this to you but it doesn't matter what the recast is if it's 3s or under.

The game has a global lockout timer, you cast a spell and for the next three seconds you can't do anything. So ... Cure IV -> 3s -> Cure IV -> 3s -> Cure IV is all you need. RDM can't main heal with multiple DD's because it doesn't have AOE cures which heal multiple people in a single cast and thus doesn't run into that 3s lockout issue. Instead of Cure IV -> 3s -> Cure V -> 3s -> Cure IV, the WHM does Curaga IV and call's it a day. Curaga III is an epic heal for keeping people above yellow. That is the reason WHM is the best healer, not Cure V or Cure VI which are rarely used. Currently both RDM and SCH are perfectly capable of healing one melee, two would be pushing it if your fighting anything with big AOEs. Three is just not possible, and two is extremely hard if the boss has lots of AOEs due to the 3s lockout timer.

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Originally Posted by Martel

PLD: Flashga. Just do it SE.

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There is a Flashga in the game that PLD could use, SE is just being uptight and not unlocking the Campaign Battle WS for outside use. Uriel Blade is ridiculous on the enmity it would generate.

Well, AoE flash isn't quite the reason I want Uriel Blade, lol. But Yes, I do want it.

I appreciate all the feedback and suggestions in this thread, and rest assured I have forwarded this information along to the dev. team.

In regards to Massacre Elegy, the team has been looking into this for quite some time, but after considering current battle balance and balance between support jobs they have decided not to implement it at this time.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

You promised! You promised!

There was never a promise. :P

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Originally Posted by Traxus

Make Afflatus Solace able to be subbed, and let other mage jobs to equip Sifahir Slacks. Boom, sch and rdm healing fixed.

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YES. This. I always felt it was so unfair that other mages got Convert from /rdm after it had been iconic of the main job for so long. It feels too late to take it away now, so giving rdm (and sch) tools from /whm and the (kinda overpowered yet now wholly necessary) MP returns from gear like Sifahir Slacks would be very welcome indeed.

Also, is anyone else annoyed that RDM gets tier V nukes, of all things, for its 100 JP gift? I can't imagine many situations in which I'd care to blow that much time and MP on nuking. I would have preferred most anything else, haha. T_T

They also promised pet th gear to make up for nerfing pet th pets.... still waiting on that.

Really though they should bring rdm slow up too if they ever do massacre. Kind of sad that even fully merited and geared slow II is still not as strong as a lvl 59 spell from a naked brd. Giving them another tier twice as powerful would just be a kick in the teeth

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Originally Posted by dasva

They also promised pet th gear to make up for nerfing pet th pets.... still waiting on that.

Really though they should bring rdm slow up too if they ever do massacre. Kind of sad that even fully merited and geared slow II is still not as strong as a lvl 59 spell from a naked brd. Giving them another tier twice as powerful would just be a kick in the teeth

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if you remember they also posted like a year later saying they never said they would add Pet TH, that they were only just thinking about it, and went with No

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Originally Posted by Tile

if you remember they also posted like a year later saying they never said they would add Pet TH, that they were only just thinking about it, and went with No

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They also said the stuff in your signature so....

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Originally Posted by Tile

if you remember they also posted like a year later saying they never said they would add Pet TH, that they were only just thinking about it, and went with No

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Yeah it was kind of funny because then people posted where they flat out said they were before next to wear they denied it and they just kind of whistled and walked away. Like we didn't say that... but here's the proof you did.... nothing to see here folks

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Originally Posted by sweetidealism

Also, is anyone else annoyed that RDM gets tier V nukes, of all things, for its 100 JP gift?

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Yeah, people love to go on about how useless/situational cure V would be for rdm, but t5 nukes are even more so.

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Originally Posted by Traxus

Yeah, people love to go on about how useless/situational cure V would be for rdm, but t5 nukes are even more so.

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Don't know about you but I love having Tier V, means I get to run around the new skirmish and one shot all the elementals for quickly building points. Tier IV aren't enough and it's not like RDM actually runs into an MP problem with /SCH and DA.

You can get the same result in the same time with t2->t2 for about 75% less mp cost. I've been nuking a lot on sch since the SoA elemental magic adjustment, and despite having access to t5 the entire time, I never use them. There is just no incentive to use anything besides t1-3 and helix.

T5 are even less useful for rdm than for sch, so I wasn't excited to see those as the 100 jp gift to say the least. Storm 2 spells on the other hand are a huge upgrade.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Don't know about you but I love having Tier V, means I get to run around the new skirmish and one shot all the elementals for quickly building points. Tier IV aren't enough and it's not like RDM actually runs into an MP problem with /SCH and DA.

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my RDM is either on book or haste2ing the pets, where it belongs. BLU and BLM are much better at killing elementals due to their aoe capabilities. I'll leave it to them.

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Originally Posted by Traxus

You can get the same result in the same time with t2->t2 for about 75% less mp cost. I've been nuking a lot on sch since the SoA elemental magic adjustment, and despite having access to t5 the entire time, I never use them. There is just no incentive to use anything besides t1-3 and helix.

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I'd agree with that for most things, but having one shot capability with capped Fast Cast is quite the boon when you're in an area with multiple elementals. Having to spend an extra 3-5 seconds per mob can add up when you've got 20+ elementals to kill. MP willing, I'd think its silly to spend more time for less points.

It doesn't take 3-5 seconds to cast a second t2, and I've yet to run into a situation where I'm not killing elementals fast enough. That said, if you're worried about that extreme level of efficiency in this event for some reason, don't bring a rdm to do anything beyond book.

Even though RDM has been finding a niche in EG content post-Adoulin, I don't think giving the job CV would hurt now, and I don't think it would allow RDM to take the spot of WHM in EG. It would allow for RDM to be a main healer in CP party's, and I think that would be a very good thing, but anything that takes larger HP or even drop's a cripplinmg TP move to the frontline with ~1.8K DMG loss alround, its not a RDM your going to want, its a whm that can heal all members of the frontline in one go.

Cure V is not the game breaker for main healer in 2015 that it was in 2011/2012.

WHM would still have CVI and more importantly Curaga IV and Curaga V.

What is up with the "Give sch and rdm cure V" things <.< my cure IV on sch is all i need i hace access to light storm 2 now that is +40%(staff and cape)that whm cant even touch with out a sch there to buff them and that 40% is on top of cure pot so 150% x 40% = 60% sch is gettin 60% more potent cures then whm!
That is <.< big number if u ask me. i know my cure IV does more then a whm's and if i get cure V that will do more to. The only thing whm has on sch is cureskin, and that is fine i have Regen V and in content with a tank i always find it dumb that sch is not the healer of choice as it does better then a whm does

I don't think anyone here is asking for RDM to get Cure V. They're just stating that it, and truly most anything, would be preferred over t5 nukes.

Personally, I would've preferred new tiers of some enhancing spells, especially if I could cast them on others. Stoneskin II, Blink II, Temper II, En(element) III. Basically anything useful that isn't tragically tied to a merit category.

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Originally Posted by Traxus

You can get the same result in the same time with t2->t2 for about 75% less mp cost. I've been nuking a lot on sch since the SoA elemental magic adjustment, and despite having access to t5 the entire time, I never use them. There is just no incentive to use anything besides t1-3 and helix.

T5 are even less useful for rdm than for sch, so I wasn't excited to see those as the 100 jp gift to say the least. Storm 2 spells on the other hand are a huge upgrade.

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No you can't, even under chainspell. There is a global 3s lockout timer after you cast a spell before you can start casting the next one. Thus your situation would be T2 -> 3s -> T2 -> Dead vs T5 -> Dead. I walk into a camp of elementals and to T5 -> Dead -> 3s -> T5 -> Dead -> 3s -> T5 -> Dead, each one being a different nuke. Or I go on BLU but that's a different topic all together.

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It doesn't take 3-5 seconds to cast a second t2, and I've yet to run into a situation where I'm not killing elementals fast enough. That said, if you're worried about that extreme level of efficiency in this event for some reason, don't bring a rdm to do anything beyond book.

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Your either lying or just bullsh!ting people. As stated above it's not possible to cast spells faster then three seconds apart. It's a very frustrating part of the game.

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Originally Posted by Protey

my RDM is either on book or haste2ing the pets, where it belongs. BLU and BLM are much better at killing elementals due to their aoe capabilities. I'll leave it to them.

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Sorry that you suck so badly then. Maybe you should be left on the book where you can be useful since you obviously can't do anything else.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Sorry that you suck so badly then. Maybe you should be left on the book where you can be useful since you obviously can't do anything else.

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or you could actually read what was written and have even a minute amount of logic. AoE equals killing faster than single target. It's not about sucking, it's about not having as good a capability as other jobs. would you go as a melee whm in delve or incursion when sam or thf can do much better? also, a RDM putting haste2 on pets and dia3 on stronghold is far greater benefit than the single nukes it can provide.

With capped fast cast, a t2 has a .3s casting time, t5 is 2s. You're talking about saving ~1.3s per elemental you stop to kill (for over quadruple the mp cost mind you), it's not a relevant difference.

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Originally Posted by Traxus

With capped fast cast, a t2 has a .3s casting time, t5 is 2s. You're talking about saving ~1.3s per elemental you stop to kill (for over quadruple the mp cost mind you), it's not a relevant difference.

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Umm you didn't count the 3s did you. T2 (.3) -> 3s -> T2 (.3) -> dead for 3.6 seconds, your also vulnerable to the elementals return spell during that time, so bio III / sleep / choke / nuke / ect. T5 would be 2s -> dead for over a 50% savings in speed and importantly not being subject to return fire. Aspir from /SCH (your in DA mode right) and the occasional convert with extra long duration Haste / Refresh II has you covered for MP.

Yeah you have to count forced delays on multiple casts like that. This is part of the problem with forced delays on spellcasting and say ranged attacks as it makes things like fastcast/snapshot actually help higher delay things more than lower delays.