Worst decision by SE ever

Heard that SE stopped accepting PayPal and UltimatePay as payments. I've not heard of the latter, but PayPal? It's the most common method used by almost every company since not everyone has access to a bank card. Why was this stopped? Some of my friends had to ultimately quit playing FFXI because they have no other means to pay to play. I don't understand SE's game here.

You are so late to this party

The ultimate pay was what people were using to access paypal. Convoluted. Yes... but yeah this happened months ago...

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Originally Posted by geekgirl101

Heard that SE stopped accepting PayPal and UltimatePay as payments. I've not heard of the latter, but PayPal? It's the most common method used by almost every company since not everyone has access to a bank card. Why was this stopped? Some of my friends had to ultimately quit playing FFXI because they have no other means to pay to play. I don't understand SE's game here.

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This wasn't an SE decision. UltimatePay is becoming no longer a thing- not just for XI, but for anything.

I don't understand people not having the means to get a card though. There are prepaid cards you can just buy at any major store, no credit rquired. I got a debit card on my checking account the day I turned 18. I got my first credit card (with a pathetic limit but a card nonetheless) not long after- it's not hard to get one, you just go to a bank and apply or ask. Either is far safer than cash, especially for me as someone who tends to... lose things. It depends a lot on your country though, to be fair. Some countries have plastic so prevalent that they may even be eliminating physical money in the next 20-30 years. Other countries love their cash and checking accounts and cards aren't so common.

While I do use paypal for a few things like Ebay (since you're basically forced to), Paypal is a really crappy (for lack of a better term) company- They are able to act much like a financial institution without all of the same regulations and I find their customer service to be worse than SEs and I really don't want to use paypal unless they don't take anything else- And, even when I use paypal, my credit card is the funding source for my paypal account. So it's really no different than just using my card.

You do understand that people are using full fledged, bank backed credit cards and still being rejected by SE (and SE only) right?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

This wasn't an SE decision. UltimatePay is becoming no longer a thing- not just for XI, but for anything.

I don't understand people not having the means to get a card though. There are prepaid cards you can just buy at any major store, no credit rquired. I got a debit card on my checking account the day I turned 18. I got my first credit card (with a pathetic limit but a card nonetheless) not long after- it's not hard to get one, you just go to a bank and apply or ask. Either is far safer than cash, especially for me as someone who tends to... lose things. It depends a lot on your country though, to be fair. Some countries have plastic so prevalent that they may even be eliminating physical money in the next 20-30 years. Other countries love their cash and checking accounts and cards aren't so common.

While I do use paypal for a few things like Ebay (since you're basically forced to), Paypal is a really crappy (for lack of a better term) company- They are able to act much like a financial institution without all of the same regulations and I find their customer service to be worse than SEs and I really don't want to use paypal unless they don't take anything else- And, even when I use paypal, my credit card is the funding source for my paypal account. So it's really no different than just using my card.

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PayPal was a way to get around the 401 and 601 errors that some cards get when being used to pay the monthly fee. PayPal wouldn't reject the card, but something about SE's payment system doesn't like cards from some banks. Prepaid VISA and MasterCard cards are a bit of a pain too because they cost at least $5 per card, so your monthly fee is actually costing more than if your normal card was just accepted.

If you get a 401 error, you're locked out from using other cards for 1-30 days, depending on how many times you got the 401 error while your account was locked. PayPal avoided this.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

You do understand that people are using full fledged, bank backed credit cards and still being rejected by SE (and SE only) right?

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Yeah, i know about the errors some people have had, and I'm not trying to suggest they don't need to offer some kind of alternative. Just saying, there are options available. I was reacting more to the "not everyone has a bank card' comment (add the words "that works" and I guess it makes perfect sense at that point).

It's true what I said though - Paypal really is an awful company and I have a few nasty stories from dealing with them.

Jeanna reported using pre-paid cards and that caused Errors too. She tried using multiple CC, prepaid cards etc. and was unable to pay. She is now no longer playing FFXI as far as I'm aware.

I don't want to argue about this, but I will say that I have used PAYPAL for many many years and I have never had any problems at all. I don't actually shop on Ebay much, but I do use Paypal on a lot of other sites, and it has always been swift, secure and easy for me. I have heard negative reports about Paypal, but it is the worlds largest billing system so you will inevitably get people with negative stories. The vast majority of people use Paypal and do not experience problems with it.

SE have said they will look into adding a Paypal option, and I certainly hope they do.

I paid for FFXI using the same bank card/bank account from 2004-2011, every month, and had no problems at all. Then the C&B incident, and after the bank card option was restored, I started getting Error and Lockout problems while using the exact same UK bank account as I had used for the years 04-11. I don't want to buy pre-paid cards, when other players have reported getting payment Errors and lockouts from using those cards too. And SEAMS does not accept my bank account cards, even though they were perfectly good from years 04-11.

So if a Paypal option is not added, I will leave FFXI when my UltimateGameCard crysta runs out which will be early 2015. I will join the legions of loyal customers who have been banished from FFXI by this random and broken and quite frankly amateurish payment system.
:)

Paypal is trash honestly, it takes 5-6 days to clear a transaction, and in that time people can do what is essentially a charge back and dispute the transaction. Then you lose the money and they get the item for free. It is very risky to be a seller and rely on paypal.

I have had to deal with it to many times, and know its just not worth it if i can avoid it.

The bigger concern shouldn't be the lack of paypal, as most mmo dont use paypal, the real issue, should be that SE/PoL have issues with peoples legit credit cards/bank cards/prepaid cards. There is zero reason for a legit bank card to be declined, and if it is being declined because SE's bank is in JP and its flagging the transaction as 'possibly' fraudulent, then it is upon the company to work with banks and get this solved.

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Originally Posted by Roja323

Paypal is trash honestly, it takes 5-6 days to clear a transaction, and in that time people can do what is essentially a charge back and dispute the transaction. Then you lose the money and they get the item for free. It is very risky to be a seller and rely on paypal.

I have had to deal with it to many times, and know its just not worth it if i can avoid it.

The bigger concern shouldn't be the lack of paypal, as most mmo dont use paypal, the real issue, should be that SE/PoL have issues with peoples legit credit cards/bank cards/prepaid cards. There is zero reason for a legit bank card to be declined, and if it is being declined because SE's bank is in JP and its flagging the transaction as 'possibly' fraudulent, then it is upon the company to work with banks and get this solved.

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You are mistaken, in regards to Paypal for buying game credits. I bought Ultimate Game Cards with Paypal, the card was paid for in under a minute. Not 5~6 days. I would enter my Paypal details into the UGC shop, and have the crysta up on SEAMS within a few minutes. Very fast, and very secure.

Paypal is used for many gaming facilities. It is not the rare and unpopular service you are making it out to be. Many people use it for gaming services, and find it quick and easy and secure.

SE do need to fix the bank card /check system, that should be a priority for them.

But they should also add a Paypal option, for people who like to use Paypal. You two in this thread do not like Paypal, thats fine, you don't have to use it. But stop making it out to be an Ogre just because you had issues with some Ebay buyers/sellers. Game credits are not Ebay items that are posted in the mail and might arrive broken or not arrive at all. Buying game credits with Paypal is instant, secure and there is no question about the seller not posting your credits. This would be even more true if Paypal were directly dealing with SE, as there is no Game Card third party, its just your Bank-->Paypal-->SE. There is really no reason to start making issues where they don't exist.

We've tried about 10-12 different cards on Jeanna/Calipso's accounts to get them working in the past few months (including letting her use my personal cards that I pay for the game with). Nothing has worked thus far. She was able to add Crysta on one of her mule accounts just yesterday with a prepaid from US (she lives in Canada), but her main and other mule account are still frozen up.

It's certainly been a stressful ordeal for her and everyone connected.

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You are mistaken, in regards to Paypal for buying game credits. I bought Ultimate Game Cards with Paypal, the card was paid for in under a minute. Not 5~6 days. I would enter my Paypal details into the UGC shop, and have the crysta up on SEAMS within a few minutes. Very fast, and very secure.

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It doesn't always hpapen, but it is a very common issue.

I had issue where when I went to buy something on ebay (hadn't been on the site in years) the site asked me if I wanted to link my paypal account to make checkout easier. I'm like, sure, whatever. I figured it would take me to a page where I would go through this process, then go back to the item page. But when i clicked to link my account, it was not only done instantly but the item was automatically purchased in the process, and the seller even got an old address I don't use anymore. It took a week to sort out the issue with paypal, cancel the original transaction, change the address, and make the new transaction (with my approval this time, instead of just automatically doing who knows what).

I hate paypal. As others have noted, the real issue isn't the lack of paypal, it is the seeming lack of PROPER credit card support. Playspan worked quite well but Visa acquired and pulled the plug on that. Paypal can die in a fire but SE needs to hurry up and add a new payment option for those who are having troubles.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

It doesn't always hpapen, but it is a very common issue.

I had issue where when I went to buy something on ebay (hadn't been on the site in years) the site asked me if I wanted to link my paypal account to make checkout easier. I'm like, sure, whatever. I figured it would take me to a page where I would go through this process, then go back to the item page. But when i clicked to link my account, it was not only done instantly but the item was automatically purchased in the process, and the seller even got an old address I don't use anymore. It took a week to sort out the issue with paypal, cancel the original transaction, change the address, and make the new transaction (with my approval this time, instead of just automatically doing who knows what).

I hate paypal. As others have noted, the real issue isn't the lack of paypal, it is the seeming lack of PROPER credit card support. Playspan worked quite well but Visa acquired and pulled the plug on that. Paypal can die in a fire but SE needs to hurry up and add a new payment option for those who are having troubles.

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Using Paypal to buy game credits, is not the same as Ebay. The problem you mentioned above, occurred on Ebay. Can you not see how that is different to going to SEAMS and wanting to stock up on Crysta?

These decisions are made On-site. "Yes, I want to buy crysta!" - "Ok : opening Paypal in new window!" - "Enter your Paypal password." - "Ok! Purchase complete!"

My situation is ; in Feb my FFXI account will shut down, because SEAMS doesn't accept my valid Visa cards from my UK bank account that has been in good credit since 1985, and which SE accepted every month from 2004-2011, when they completely lost the plot.

I really like Paypal a lot because I have been their happy customer for many trouble-free years. So Paypal is fine with me.

I would like to see them fix the bank card system too. So that people who want to pay directly with their bank cards can do so. But I would like to see them add Paypal too. Because right now I trust Paypal a whole lot more than I trust SE. :p

Screw paypal and credit card, game time card is the best.

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Originally Posted by Vasch

We've tried about 10-12 different cards on Jeanna/Calipso's accounts to get them working in the past few months (including letting her use my personal cards that I pay for the game with). Nothing has worked thus far. She was able to add Crysta on one of her mule accounts just yesterday with a prepaid from US (she lives in Canada), but her main and other mule account are still frozen up.

It's certainly been a stressful ordeal for her and everyone connected.

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I think her account probably got locked up for 30 days after each try due to 401 errors.

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Originally Posted by Afania

Screw paypal and credit card, game time card is the best.

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The problem with that is the variable monthly fee due to extra character slots. Crysta cards would work, if you could fill them with custom amounts, or if they were in sane amounts.

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Using Paypal to buy game credits, is not the same as Ebay.

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Using paypal to buy anything is the same as using paypal to buy anything. THere's about a million issues that can come up and if you have any problems whatsoever, you have to deal with the world's worst customer service. Some people say SE's is bad but they don't hold a candle to paypal's CS. The only worse company I've encountered in my life is probably click n' buy (Thank god they got rid of that).

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I really like Paypal a lot because I have been their happy customer for many trouble-free years. So Paypal is fine with me.

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Then you're extremely lucky. There's a reason why someone made a website dedicated to talking about how awful paypal is (www.paypalsucks.com) and describing their terrible and in some cases borderline unethical business practices. They can basically hold your money in limbo whenever they want for however long they want for whatever reason they want, and you can't do a thing about it if that happens to you. The amount of effort you have to go through to reverse an unintended transaction (where both you and the seller are in agreement on the issue) is ridiculous. The ebay issue I had where they automatically made a purchase for me when I was just trying to link my account was absurd. It's very concerning to me that that's even possible.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Using paypal to buy anything is the same as using paypal to buy anything. THere's about a million issues that can come up and if you have any problems whatsoever, you have to deal with the world's worst customer service. Some people say SE's is bad but they don't hold a candle to paypal's CS. The only worse company I've encountered in my life is probably click n' buy (Thank god they got rid of that).

Then you're extremely lucky. There's a reason why someone made a website dedicated to talking about how awful paypal is (www.paypalsucks.com) and describing their terrible and in some cases borderline unethical business practices. They can basically hold your money in limbo whenever they want for however long they want for whatever reason they want, and you can't do a thing about it if that happens to you. The amount of effort you have to go through to reverse an unintended transaction (where both you and the seller are in agreement on the issue) is ridiculous. The ebay issue I had where they automatically made a purchase for me when I was just trying to link my account was absurd. It's very concerning to me that that's even possible.

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Using paypal to buy anything is the same as using paypal to buy anything.

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Nah. Not at all. Buying goods that require postal delivery, quality verification etc.etc. is totally different to going to SEAMS and buying some Crysta, just using Paypal as a direct-debit pathway from your bank to the SEAMS crysta sales node. There is no point of sales contention, you are not dealing person-to-person with somebody who might be selling junk or not posting it etc. You are dealing with a computer, and using Paypal to transfer direct-debit from your bank account, to a payment receptor, which registers the payment and rolls up some crysta digits for you.

How do I know? Because for the last two years I've been buying crysta with Paypal via UGC, and the transactions took a couple of minutes total, were 100% swift and reliable, and secure. I don't even need to compare that with the card Error# problems and Click&Buy fraud/security-hazard site etc. which have been/are the proffered alternatives to Paypal.

In any case, my FFXI account will expire because of being unable to pay for it, despite me having plenty of money in the bank. Paypal would solve this for me. Why is it an issue for you if other people want to pay for FFXI with Paypal. It doesn't affect you at all. Lol.

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Then you're extremely lucky.

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Yes. Extremely lucky. I suppose all my friends, family, workmates and just about everyone else I know are also "extremely lucky" because they use Paypal all the time as a normal part of life, and they never burst out crying or turn into bitter wrecks or set up Hate Sites like the one you linked. They just Paypal for transactions, and it is very rare indeed that I've heard any complaints about Paypal from anyone in real life, and usually very minor complaints. I'll be sure to go round telling everyone I know that they are "extremely lucky" because Alhanelem says they all must be, because they use Paypal all the time and have no problems with it.

By the way there are Hate Sites for SE and FFXI too, there are Hate Sites for just about everything in the world. And because Paypal is very large business, it is a large target for bitter Hater kinds of people. I don't really take much interest in haters, all I know is I have paid for FFXI with Paypal for 2 years effortlessly, it has been very easy and reliable and stress free. And I would keep doing so if the option existed.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Using paypal to buy anything is the same as using paypal to buy anything. THere's about a million issues that can come up and if you have any problems whatsoever, you have to deal with the world's worst customer service. Some people say SE's is bad but they don't hold a candle to paypal's CS. The only worse company I've encountered in my life is probably click n' buy (Thank god they got rid of that).

Then you're extremely lucky. There's a reason why someone made a website dedicated to talking about how awful paypal is (www.paypalsucks.com) and describing their terrible and in some cases borderline unethical business practices. They can basically hold your money in limbo whenever they want for however long they want for whatever reason they want, and you can't do a thing about it if that happens to you. The amount of effort you have to go through to reverse an unintended transaction (where both you and the seller are in agreement on the issue) is ridiculous. The ebay issue I had where they automatically made a purchase for me when I was just trying to link my account was absurd. It's very concerning to me that that's even possible.

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Funny, I've never had any problems with Paypal and neither have any of my friends or family. Come to think of it, neither have any of my acquaintances (or if they did, it wasn't a big enough issue that they felt the need to berate the company for it.) I've bought and sold hundreds of things on eBay and I've only had a single minor issue, which required me to scan a copy of my Driver's license to verify my identity -- and as I recall, it went quick and smoothly. Regardless, it's irrelevant to the point here anyway -- people that have issues with their CC and were/are unable to play the game would have a means to do so through Paypal. Considering that it's one of the most widely accepted forms of payment on the net, I don't see any good reason for not having it as an option for those that can't pay otherwise.

The only time I had any issues with paypal was before I verified my account. Before then I did have the 5-6 day waiting period issue, but afterwards everything is instant. I'm sure paypal does fail at times, but they succeed far more often than not. If "paypalsucks" were the norm they wouldn't be where they are now. No payment processor is foolproof, not even Visa or Mastercard.

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Originally Posted by Afania

Screw paypal and credit card, game time card is the best.

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No thanks. I hate having to run around from store to store hoping to find a card in stock. Hard to even find nintendo cards... SE cards would be a nightmare. Stores don't want to stock something that maybe 10 people in town want once a month.

Working credit card/debit card system and paypal is perfect. Pay in my pajamas, at home, no biking all over town required.

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Originally Posted by Seillan

Funny, I've never had any problems with Paypal and neither have any of my friends or family. Come to think of it, neither have any of my acquaintances (or if they did, it wasn't a big enough issue that they felt the need to berate the company for it.) I've bought and sold hundreds of things on eBay and I've only had a single minor issue....

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Yeah I don't get the people bashing paypal here. I've done hundreds of transactions no problem. So a few scammers charge back or something? I don't care, scammers gonna scam, they will find a way no matter what payment system you use. Hence why stuff like counterfeit money exists.

Dude pressed the wrong button on ebay and blames it on paypal... okie dokie. Also I had a wrong address on my paypal before and it took exactly one note to the seller to get it sent to the right place... not weeks of anguish... maybe online shopping is just too hard for some folks.

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Yeah I don't get the people bashing paypal here. I've done hundreds of transactions no problem. So a few scammers charge back or something? I don't care, scammers gonna scam, they will find a way no matter what payment system you use. Hence why stuff like counterfeit money exists.

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It really doesn't even have much to do with scamming, it's more about horrendous customer service coupled with some shady practices (like the one that caused me to unknowingly make a purchase before I was ready to do so that I explained before). I haven't been scammed by anyone in particular (yet...), and in fact the seller I dealt with in the mentioned incident was very understanding and said "ive had a few issues like that in the past, don't worry about it).

Also something really stupid, apparently when you send money to someone (not a purchase) the recipient pays the fee. For instance, I won a big contest for a company once. They sent me the cash prize via paypal. The amount I recieved was less than what they sent me, because paypal deducted the fee from the transaction amount, rather than charging a fee to the sender.

The lack of eagerness to take your money is weird with SE, that much is for sure; I really don't know why they're dragging their feet in offering additional payment methods- because gripes aside, it will help a lot of people give them money. FFXI may not be that big but it would also affect FFXIV which also uses the square enix account system. So my guess is as good as anyone's why they haven't done this, even if it is with a company I hate.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

This wasn't an SE decision. UltimatePay is becoming no longer a thing- not just for XI, but for anything.

I don't understand people not having the means to get a card though. There are prepaid cards you can just buy at any major store, no credit rquired. I got a debit card on my checking account the day I turned 18. I got my first credit card (with a pathetic limit but a card nonetheless) not long after- it's not hard to get one, you just go to a bank and apply or ask. Either is far safer than cash, especially for me as someone who tends to... lose things. It depends a lot on your country though, to be fair. Some countries have plastic so prevalent that they may even be eliminating physical money in the next 20-30 years. Other countries love their cash and checking accounts and cards aren't so common.

While I do use paypal for a few things like Ebay (since you're basically forced to), Paypal is a really crappy (for lack of a better term) company- They are able to act much like a financial institution without all of the same regulations and I find their customer service to be worse than SEs and I really don't want to use paypal unless they don't take anything else- And, even when I use paypal, my credit card is the funding source for my paypal account. So it's really no different than just using my card.

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UP/Playspan is still a business, and up and running. They just stopped doing their Gamecards. Basically, we got zero notice that paypal/other payment services were being removed (other than Ultimate gamecards).

I have in total about 6 different credit cards. Two of them are visa debits tied to my bank account. I use them with no issues everywhere else online. I have several other actual credit cards, again, which I use online and in stores with no issues. I also went out and a) bought a visa prepaid card, following the additional step of registering it online with my address so it would have an address to check and match vs my SE address, and b) went through more hassle than I should have and got a brand new visa credit card not tied to any financial institution I'm currently affiliated with. Not a single of these options worked. I got 500 crysta to go through once on my main visa debit in about eight months when I was just jokingly testing to see if it would work. (In hindsight I really with I had tried to buy more).

I've tried every browser, tried different computers, even tried different internet.

SE's payment system is full of more holes than a block of swiss cheese.

PS: Paypal really isn't any more or less shady than most american banks. Just sayin!

i hope u find some way to get around your issue >.>

i dont think its there payment system cause if it was it would be the same for everyone and not just some

It's their system, unfortunately, I've tried pretty much everything humanely possible to try and fix it. As far as I can tell, there's a LOT of people that are having the same problem (there's a 120+ page thread on the 14 forums about it) and they did just finally release an official statement confirming the problem. It's just a very, very poorly implemented (and overly zealous) fraud system.

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Originally Posted by Olor

No thanks. I hate having to run around from store to store hoping to find a card in stock. Hard to even find nintendo cards... SE cards would be a nightmare. Stores don't want to stock something that maybe 10 people in town want once a month.

Working credit card/debit card system and paypal is perfect. Pay in my pajamas, at home, no biking all over town required.



Yeah I don't get the people bashing paypal here. I've done hundreds of transactions no problem. So a few scammers charge back or something? I don't care, scammers gonna scam, they will find a way no matter what payment system you use. Hence why stuff like counterfeit money exists.

Dude pressed the wrong button on ebay and blames it on paypal... okie dokie. Also I had a wrong address on my paypal before and it took exactly one note to the seller to get it sent to the right place... not weeks of anguish... maybe online shopping is just too hard for some folks.

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Just give player the option to buy code with CC/paypal. The issue with Paypal/CC is that it doesn't work very well in certain region, with game time code you just input a set of code and done.