Overwhelmed & over complicated?

Just wondering if anyone else has felt this way coming back to the game. I'm sure I'll probably get a lot of flames and criticism for this, just like how 7 years ago if you questioned the end game dynamics you were just told you didn't have the skill or didn't want to put in the hard work, effort and time. I know people say the game is much better and much easier now, but some things have me baffled. All of this is just personal opinion as well.

I have not played very much in the past 2-3 years, very small spurts of playtime. It seems extremely hard for me to keep track of what all there is, what is good and what is gimp, which new end game events are going on and how to do them. It seems with every new update every few months there's a new event, or a new stage to some event adding some new armor and or weapons that made the previous sub-par. I've found that for myself, trying to better the jobs I enjoy playing would either take a very long time solo or doing events that my jobs are not geared well enough to get invited for.

Some people have told me to "Use WHM" or "BRD" or some other job, but why must I use a certain job to gear another? Isn't this one of the dynamics people use to hate about the game? Some jobs are not even wanted for many events. I remember during Abyssea, you could at least get Curuor gear from the npc's which was pretty decent until you began upgrading your AF3. Also, upgrading the AF3 was a really fun system to me at least.

One of the biggest things now is just keeping track of what is what, what you should be spending your time trying to get and what's a waste. It also feels a bit pointless, because once you get that really good item, in just a few months it will become sub-par and as time goes on it will just fall further and further from being what it was when you went for it.

Also, use to a lot of equipment, weapons and armor could be used across several jobs. Now, everything is so job specific that it feels like if I can get one job even near end-game quality equipped, it will take a long time, a lot of effort and continuous catching up. I don't see how I could do it on more than one, maybe two jobs? I use to really enjoy being able to equip and play many different jobs.

I don't know. I know I love Vana'Diel and miss being able to have fun in it, but anymore when I sign on it just feels like no one is hardly doing anything and anything I might need to get done to catch up no one is ever doing. I sign on trying to figure out what to do and eventually log out after feeling overwhelmed.

Anyone else feel like this? Like things are just really overly complex, hard to keep track of and catch up on? Perhaps I'm just doing something wrong, if so I hope to be enlightened on such so I can enjoy Vana'Diel once again.

Thank you for your time.

don't know where you are getting the comment about JSE equipment, unless you mean relic and AF.... they were always that way.

it's not complex at all. if anything it's the exact opposite. SE has made this game more and more easy to cater to the casual crowd. you mentioned getting cruor gear as a stepping stone. you can get eminent gear as a stepping stone.

go read the wiki over at BG on SoA. that should help you sort things out.

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Originally Posted by Adventurer

I have not played very much in the past 2-3 years, very small spurts of playtime. It seems extremely hard for me to keep track of what all there is, what is good and what is gimp, which new end game events are going on and how to do them. It seems with every new update every few months there's a new event, or a new stage to some event adding some new armor and or weapons that made the previous sub-par. I've found that for myself, trying to better the jobs I enjoy playing would either take a very long time solo or doing events that my jobs are not geared well enough to get invited for.

Some people have told me to "Use WHM" or "BRD" or some other job, but why must I use a certain job to gear another? Isn't this one of the dynamics people use to hate about the game? Some jobs are not even wanted for many events. I remember during Abyssea, you could at least get Curuor gear from the npc's which was pretty decent until you began upgrading your AF3. Also, upgrading the AF3 was a really fun system to me at least.

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To be blunt, if your play time is as you say it is, "being gimp" shouldn't really be a concern, nor should end game content. You bring up Cruor gear as a decent starting point, something they did right. There's multiple different sets of gear that's similar to this now. Sparks gear from Records of Eminence, Bayld gear from the Peacekeeper's Coalition, and reforged AF are easily (although time consuming for AF specifically) soloed and all are decent options. Get involved with WKR shouts when you see them. And if you don't see them, make them. People show up, whether to learn Blu spells, to get drops, to get HPBs, to get Bayld, or to get augmenting KIs from the RoE.

The one's who have said that this time for FFXI is by far the easiest time to gear up are fairly accurate, IMO. There's no difficulty in grinding away Bayld, grinding away Sparks, getting Accolades for Wanted NMs, BCs (getting the drop is the hardest part), Skirmish, etc. It just takes a little time. Even in Aby's days, unless you were a multi-boxer or had a decent group, there were plenty of NMs that weren't easily soloable outside of pet jobs or obtuse job/atma combinations. Now? Set some RoEs, get sparks gear, go grind seals/accolades/more sparks/bayld, and you'll have the makings of a decent set in no time. As far as "what's a waste" really, nothing much. Whether it goes towards earning gil, getting points to get gear, or just putzing around for Job Points/Sparks/Accolades, most things will add up over time, specially to someone who's come back recently. Don't focus on Delve, high tier mission BCs, etc. Focus on the stepping stones laid out, and when you're geared enough to move up, then focus on those, or whatever is current by then. The whole "gear is obsolete in a month" is a gross exaggeration at this point. Well augmented 113 Hagondes pieces are still best in slot (of course 119 is slightly better with the same aug) for nuking/MAcc. Most 119 gear is at least similar in power to most other items. The one's saying "x is useless" is because they already had a better piece. But to a returner? It's all going to be an upgrade.

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Also, use to a lot of equipment, weapons and armor could be used across several jobs. Now, everything is so job specific that it feels like if I can get one job even near end-game quality equipped, it will take a long time, a lot of effort and continuous catching up. I don't see how I could do it on more than one, maybe two jobs? I use to really enjoy being able to equip and play many different jobs.

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I'm not going to defend gearing multiple jobs to a max level, as that is difficult inventory wise. But for general use, for someone returning? There's multiple pieces and sets available that are not job specific. Literally the only gear that is job specific is the reforged AF and Relic, with a few other randomish updated pieces tossed in, such as the Cure MP% recovering legs from A Puppet in Perial, Wisent Kecks from the Cirdas Caverns SoA NM, etc. By a large majority, all other gear from all other sources is not job specific, and is usable (even optimum)on a number of jobs.

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I don't know. I know I love Vana'Diel and miss being able to have fun in it, but anymore when I sign on it just feels like no one is hardly doing anything and anything I might need to get done to catch up no one is ever doing. I sign on trying to figure out what to do and eventually log out after feeling overwhelmed.

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The game is in a time where you need to know people. Sure, there's going to be some random shouts for content that in truth, you'll be excluded from; you won't have the gear nor the jobs to get in, unless you're a Brd, Whm, or some other support, as someone has apparently already told you. You cannot depend on shouts for content, as a returning player or even a long time player. There's just too sporadic, the quality of players you get are typically too low to clear with ease (unless it's something like Skirmish), and truthfully, there's just too few who are interested in running it.

Find yourself a LS, get some sort of a social network going through friends, etc. Hell, even use Unity, that's actually kinda taken off (on my server at least) with people attempting to build runs from within it. You'll need some way to secure the people needed to do content in order to do it. As silly as that sounds to say, I see too many who complain about the game like content can just be queued up for or something. The population isn't there for it, you'll need to find others to run content with, rather than watching and waiting for someone else to shout for it.

If being gimp isn't a concern, then why play? The objective of any game is to be good or at least mediocre at it. This is a "MMO" rpg, meaning it's more than just a RPG, it's one you're suppose to be able to enjoy with others. Most other MMORPG's are not so gear inclusive and FFXI is at this point more these days than it use to be. I remember long ago, many years back, being invited to fight Fafnir with a LS I got into. I wore nothing but Auction House gear I farmed gil for. This was back when Fafnir was still considered a fairly difficult kill and we didn't have a full crew, but we beat it. I didn't get a drop, being my first run, but in the years to come I did get things from these events. I was always included and went on to run some big linkshells myself. Even though there were "elite" groups who had their own cliques going on, there was always plenty for me to do and the more I did the better I got.

Another big problem is variety in weapons and the lack there of. Again, for example use to the best thing a SAM could equip was bought from the auction house, it could be farmed up in a fairly short amount of time. Even for WAR, even without a ridill, a Maneater and Woodville's axe was a good combo. For RNG? A E-bow and some basics would get you into just about any fight. But now, it is much different. The weapons that are required to do anything require you to do extremely high level content with competent groups. It's a catch 22.

If some one in this day and time asks to get into a Delve with a set of Eminence gear and a Eminence weapon it won't even be remotely considered and for good reason, there is such a large gap in the power of gear. Use to? A Adaman Hauberk was only slightly better than a Hauberk +1. Everything was a game of tiny margins, which made it fun but didn't exclude people nearly as much. No offense, but people tend to have the same rose colored glasses on they always did. I agree, Square Enix has made a lot of REALLY good changes and I'm incredibly happy that they communicate more with the playerbase, but their fundamentals are just as flawed as always. In the end, it is a business to them, which it should be. Their job is to fool us into playing for as long as possible, because the longer we play the longer we pay. That's fine too, but they try to mitigate their risks through addiction, instead of actually creating worthwhile content. It hasn't always been like this, but when people began "evolving" as they put it, things never really changed. They just got different. It's simple politics and business economics.

Anyways. If you go and solo yourself a set of eminence gear, then what? People act like it's so incredibly amazing. Use to, in that time you could have farmed enough gil up to buy yourself a Hagun. It's nothing new. But now, that Eminence gear is just enough to get you into a EXP alliance, that's about it. It's enough to allow you to solo some old content which is pretty much meaningless anymore. I agree, if you want to do events anymore on this game you need to really know people and find people to help get you caught up to spec. Definitely not saying it's impossible, but it's by no task "easy". I thought the game was suppose to be more "casual friendly" for people like myself, to be able to get well geared. A lot of things seem hypocritical but whatever, these are the same discussions that use to go on for 500 pages with no resolution.

In my opinion, I wish there was more "jump in it and go" kind of content. I think they're trying to do that with Unity. I really enjoyed that with Campaign back in the WOTG days. I wish there were more NM's that would either randomly spawn, or were popped NM's with easy to obtain triggers. Things that may be difficult to fight, but didn't have a huge risk involved for entry to give more chance to those who could make or break a battle. Honestly, I've never in this game felt before like I can sign in and have no real idea of what to do or where to start and with such a bottleneck of content. The sad thing now is, there are so many things that are no longer worth doing. So if you want to have some fun in a group and half a challenge, you better work quite some time for it. Again, I think another large problem is that there is such a large gap in gear anymore, where-as it use to be much smaller gaps. Use to, all a "returner" had to do to jump into end game content was go buy some stuff off the AH and start collecting better stuff. In those days, a week or so of farming would get you again, top notch gear from the AH. Now, a week or two of hardcore farming will get you bottom of the barrel gear to get by and solo with.

For now? I'm just trying to figure out how to catch up, if it's possible for me, or some one like me who doesn't have the time to devote. I thought that was the problem originally? Having to put forth long hours of playtime per-day and commit to things, which is why they changed things...?

The only real complaint I'm seeing there is the weapons, but that's not quite the problem you see it as either.

-Skirmish 1-3 upgrade path can be done with minimal gear and will get you a 119 weapon that's decent for melee or amazing for mages. It's 3 events, but none of them require a full 6 or 119 gear. Skirmish 4 can also provide a 119 weapon, though it may be harder to get an invite to that due to the lack of interest and higher gear requirement.
-The NPC http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Oboro will allow you to purchase a 119 weapon for 1-2m. If you're struggling with the clears, D level SKCNM can easily be trioed by geared people. Most shouts will be more interested in getting extra orbs than they will be in your gear. Or...
-Delve clears can be purchased for relatively cheap on most servers. I do V1 for 3M a run, and allow the person to keep all drops. Maybe you don't like the idea of paying a merc for gear, but cost-wise it can be a great option depending on your server. Get the weapon and a bit of armor, and then step into the content yourself.

If you're thinking "That's nice and all, but how can I get that much gil when I can't do anything?".. sparks can be used to buy npcable items like bahadur > sold to npc for roughly a 10 gil: 1 spark ratio. A good dynamis run in eminence gear is worth 1.5m+, salvage2 is worth 800k+ in as little as 45 minutes in eminence. You can farm the amount of gil needed for an oboro weapon in 2 hours, or for a delve clear in 4-8(again, depends on server). There are also many profitable crafts dependant on old materials, the loss of interest in low level crafting created a market for consistant profit doing most of them as high level crafters still use these.

I'm not sure what to think of your attitude, but I can't say with any honesty that weapons nowadays are harder to obtain than e-bow or woodvilles/maneater. If you were a fresh 75 WAR or RNG in 2005, making the cost of those weapons was a task requiring potentially 20+ hours.

I came back to XI a bit less than a year ago, after quitting XIV, and indeed I found the game to be overwhelming and over-complicated but that was mainly because I decided to start a new character from scratch and had to catch up and learn about all the new things that were in the game (I left in the middle of WoTG). But I got to admit that this was exactly what I was looking for when coming back to XI, despite the fact that I always need to have wiki open when playing, but the game is full of choices, content and gear wise.

So I started planning what I needed to do, since I don't have a LS or know anyone anymore in the game.
I guess you should try and see what goals you want to achieve, if you like to play alone or if you want to group with other people or both, but I noticed, contrarily to what I read most of the time, that the game is quite alive (on my server at least).

For example I took THF to 99 first for Dynamis/Salvage farming, I sold all currencies at first to make gil, then started working on my Mandau. This was all with eminence gear, I eventually ended up upgrading my THF to 119 with records of eminence objectives buying pages. Then I took BST to 99 to be able to reforge AF/Relic more easily. You can solo SKCNMs for pages with trusts, High-tier battlefields are more difficult solo and this was why I wanted to use BST, it is mostly 117 and it can still solo most high-tier BC on very easy or easy. Then BLM to 99 to help for Skirmish.

I then decided to level SAM, MNK & RNG for group content and even though I didn't join many groups except for Difficult BCs, I'm taking my time to gear myself and re-learn my jobs to be able to play with others, even though I'm quite under-confident when it comes to playing with PUG since pretty much everyone is used to Delve and I've never done any run.

All in all, I guess it depends on if you want to take some time deciding what you want or do not want to do and how you want to play the game but really, I find it easy enough to catch up, there are plenty of options, I'd even say it's never been that easy to catch up on XI. Do not let the game overwhelm you, plan ahead and have fun. I won't lie, I still think I am behind after a year but I am at fault, there are people to play with and speed things up.

There is work to be done to get back on tracks but once you get things rolling it works out quite nicely.

Good luck to you :)

If being gimp isn't a concern, then why play?
I have not played very much in the past 2-3 years, very small spurts of playtime.

Simply put, these two statements are in conflict as would they be in any game with character development, not just MMOs, but especially them.

You enjoyed the Vana'diel of yesteryear perhaps because you had more time to devote to it, it's never been easier to obtain "endgame usable" equipment and keep current with equipment than it currently is. The systems involved can be weirdly obtuse and convoluted, but they are certainly lesso than most previous ones in XI's storied past.

Last night a friend of mine told me they just completed a "5-hour-raid" in WoW, and I kinda grinned sadly, though I like the new direction XI has taken, more often than not, I do sometimes miss being able to say "My game is much more hardcore than yours." lol.

When we've no longer got WoW beat in terms of dedication needed to be successful you know there have been big changes in XI. This is not a complaint mind you, I'm pretty happy with the direction of XI, even if I'm annoyed at some systems (Skirmish Augments -.-) just saying, you seem to be the only one I know who seems to think the game is actually gotten more demanding in terms of time commitment or complexity, everyone else thinks the reverse.

If your just coming back, Trust Initiative and Records of Eminence need to be your first goals. The iLvl 117 gear you buy with RoE sparks is very good and very easy to get. Once your gear is caught up you can take on all the new content.

The main thing that's bugging me right now is the 3429857324 different kinds of upgrading materials for all the different items and contents in the game. It is just a lot to keep track of and it sucks up inventory space. Why can't all these stones and crap be key items like the trophies from scars of abyssea? That on top of the fact that it's hard to tell what each stone and other misc item is used for? Can we maybe have item descriptions on these items at least that say what they're for?

The only currency that large and confusing would be Skirmish stones. It's mostly due to the content progression they took with it; rather than use the same stones, they kept releasing more for the next tier.

A dirty listing for them is:

Ghastly: 106 Skirmish weapons, largely useless except for 200 NQs for Ergons and trading in to Dhole for obsidian frags.
Verd: 113 Skirmish armor and 113 (after upgrading with KI from Yorcia) weapons.
Wailing: 119 (after upgrading with KI from Outer Ra'kaznar) armor and weapons.
Snow and Leaf: 119 Alluvian Skirmish weapons. Leaf and Snow stones are further broken down into what they upgrade, Slit being melee, Tip being ranged, Dim being magical, and Orb being pets.

The Taru (I forget his name atm) who augments your equipment with these stones will also store them, just trade them one type at a time to him. He can hold 99 of each.

We'll be seeing more use for Leaf and Snow stones in the near future as more Alluvion Skirmish is released.

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Originally Posted by Malithar

you'll need to find others to run content with, rather than watching and waiting for someone else to shout for it.

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Honestly, you're mostly right but what people who have good groups they run with tend to forget is that if you haven't run the content, it is pretty overwhelming to try and lead a group of strangers, especially if you're not tip top gears. I just, generally, won't do it. If I have friends to do it with and the cost is low, maybe I'd consider it, but most people are hesitant to try things they don't know about - especially now that so much of the content relies on gimmicks and no one is updating wikis really anymore.

Back in abyssea I could look up an NM and get a very solid idea of how to beat it. Now I can't find an explanation of how you're supposed to deal with new Ouryu ANYWHERE.

I've even done a lot of skirmish 3 but since I'm usually on BRD I really don't know what to tell melee about each boss or where to go or anything since I'm usually just paying attention to songs.

I mean I could do a shout group and waste everyone's merits/pop items etc or hope someone else knows how it's done but I think that's a pretty poor way of doing things.

I think that it would definitely help if there was some kind of official resource that explained these new events, maybe not immediately - but after a month maybe? Because right now it's really really hard to find the info since the shrinking fan base isn't keeping up with wikis like they used to.

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Originally Posted by Olor

Honestly, you're mostly right but what people who have good groups they run with tend to forget is that if you haven't run the content, it is pretty overwhelming to try and lead a group of strangers, especially if you're not tip top gears. I just, generally, won't do it. If I have friends to do it with and the cost is low, maybe I'd consider it, but most people are hesitant to try things they don't know about - especially now that so much of the content relies on gimmicks and no one is updating wikis really anymore.

Back in abyssea I could look up an NM and get a very solid idea of how to beat it. Now I can't find an explanation of how you're supposed to deal with new Ouryu ANYWHERE.

I've even done a lot of skirmish 3 but since I'm usually on BRD I really don't know what to tell melee about each boss or where to go or anything since I'm usually just paying attention to songs.

I mean I could do a shout group and waste everyone's merits/pop items etc or hope someone else knows how it's done but I think that's a pretty poor way of doing things.

I think that it would definitely help if there was some kind of official resource that explained these new events, maybe not immediately - but after a month maybe? Because right now it's really really hard to find the info since the shrinking fan base isn't keeping up with wikis like they used to.

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make a list of wikis that you think need updating and i will do so over christmas break.

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Originally Posted by Protey

make a list of wikis that you think need updating and i will do so over christmas break.

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Wow! That is a very generous offer.

I have to run out to a xmas party now, but I will take a look!

Honestly, this content guide SE made is a great overview/place to start:

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/contguide/

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Originally Posted by Protey

make a list of wikis that you think need updating and i will do so over christmas break.

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So someone pointed out some Delve NMs are missing strategy tips: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...gies-Delve-1-2

Would help to have more detailed for http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Mirka for example.

Raz skirmish has very little info. The area is even red linked on BG wiki:
http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Outer_Ra%27Kaznar_(U)

There is nothing listing the NMs in Raz skirmish and their tricks nor do I see maps.

Alluvion Skirmish page is not linked to the regular skirmish page, nor is it headlined at the top of the page like other endgame events. I don't know enough about the event (never done it) to comment on whether what info is there is sufficient, though there are large (!) all over the page so I am guessing not. Stuff posted by staff on the O forums is repeated but never explained.

EG:

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Eudaemon shield benefits Tank jobs.
Eudaemon blade benefits physical damage dealers.
Eudaemon ring benefits magical damage dealers.
Eudaemon cape benefits Healers.
Eudaemon sash benefits pet jobs.

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It's not explained how these items benefit jobs or how it changes the area you go to.

http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Alluvion_Skirmish

Most of the hard mode mission battles have no strategies posted whatsoever. I know there is some gimmick around Ouryu and his elementals, for example, but no where is it explained.

http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:H...n_Battlefields


Like http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Kam%27lanaut says nothing about the new battle - whereas http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Eald%27narche has tons of info about the mechanics of the hard mode event. So it's really hard to have confidence that just because no new/specific things are listed for Kam'lanaut that they don't exist.

Offhand it appears these could use new/updated/detailed info:

-Kam'lanaut
-Ouryu
-Ark Angel TT
-Ark Angel MR
-Ark Angel HM
-Divine Might
-Head Wind
-Legacy of the Lost (Gessho)
-All the new avatar fights except Shiva

Anyway that's a good start of things that would be especially helpful for players trying to catch up. Unity NMs are there but could also use more info (lots of red links in their descriptions). That stuff is newer though so I can understand it taking awhile to get info on it all.

Thanks so much for taking an interest. I know updating wikis and stuff is a lot of work - which is why I think it would be great if SE started offering more official resources. I think a lot of what is holding back parts of the community right now is access to good info.

I just came back myself, I don't feel overwhelmed, just alone on a single player game

Kimo it's kinda like that unless you start with friends, until 99 at least.

The Savage II done.
AA MR2 done.
AA GK2 done.
AA HM2 done.
AA EV2 done.
AA TT2 done.
DM2 done.


will update this post when the others are as well.

I agree with OP, the new gear they add every other update is hard to keep track on do's and dont's. Finding a decent ls (that isnt filled by 16 year olds with a sea of free time, or with people with a sea of time who have already beaten the latest content and have no intrest in helping others aside of their clique) is hard. Its hard to find new people to add on your friendlist even. Everyone always seems to be ...afk, geniunly feels like a ghosttown. I've loved this game many years but now i'm on one of my breaks (not sure if ill come back, even deleted the game from my pc (god the reinstall nooooo i dont want to)) but i've seen many people come and even more go, ffxi has a very hard time catering to new or returning people.
Most of the fun content we've had has been made obsolete (or rehashed into something mildly intresting for well geared players) its been replaced by all these generic things like trust (which is fun kinda but just enhances the single player game imo)
sparks gear (its like the lowbudget gear thats to good that anyone can obtain but which is the most boring thing ever to farm and on which the long lasting people spit on, why dont just hand it out for free? (sarcasm alert!))
I just dont have the patience to struggle through all this pre-endgame boring content so i end up quitting and never get there. And yes i tried friends and ls's what not , I cant put my finger on it, but the group and friend feel of this game has withered down to giving me the feeling that i could as well be playing this game with my mother.
Apologies for the what bitter tone.