why has getting and keeping a group together for endgame gotten a lot harder?

Hey, I've been trying to get into parties or form my own to actually do some events, and I and other leaders are finding it harder and harder to get enough people together to do high tier battlefields/skirmish/incursion/delve/etc. especialy when you consider how "strict" party roles are.

I just feel like it's hard to get anything done in terms of endgame events if it's gotten so hard to fill a party out for high tier battlefields or skirmish or even Adoulin missions, sometimes It's really, REALLY difficult to get that elusive Aegis/Ochain PLD or a COR or BRD so you have songs/rolls. I just feel like with the limited server pop being able to find good PLDs as well as a good buffer job, and some nights it's even hard to find that last DD sometimes.

I'm willing to admit it just might be my server. but even when I'm not taking charge as a WHM and forming my own group (which is what I usually have to do.), when I join someone else's shout, it just falls apart because we can't find one more person or we can't find x or y job we need to have a good party comp.

days like these makes me really miss the pre-SoA days where more people could tank besides Aegis/Ochain PLDs (remember how prolific NIN tanks were in Aby? or hell, WAR with /NIN tanks?) and that not having that BRD or COR didn't destroy your chances of getting anything done. back in Aby a lot of the time we had to roll without songs or rolls and we had to try our best to make due. (granted we had cruor buffs and Atma back then, but hell, for VW and those other non-Aby events pre-SoA that was a bigger deal.) But now it seems a lot of contents you NEED good rolls or songs, and/or you NEED a good GEO, and a good core of other mage support types for stunnign and all that, which I guess would make things more interesting if it wasn't so hard to even get such strict compositions together.

It's really cool SE is trying to fix these group coordinating problems with LS Concierges and the Unity thing, but the Unity thing is just going to be another big NM event you probably on't have the right party comp to actually do.

It's ahh, it's frustrating. even LS groups might be hard to pull off if your LSes don't have the right mix of jobs.

Try to replace the BRD/COR with a GEO, it works but people just don't even bother trying. If anything, you can still complete events w/o them you just need to do a lower difficulty.

Yeah, I guess you have a point, but I already only do high tiers on Norm or so because AAs and such are already no joke and I think it'd be a little embarassing having to set it to VE just because we don't got rolls/songs or because we have to let a MNK or something try to hold hate because no PLD with appropriate shield.

All the AA have been soloed on N by RDM and SCH, if you can't beat N w/o songs/rolls while someone has soloed it... that is troubling.

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Originally Posted by Draylo

All the AA have been soloed on N by RDM and SCH, if you can't beat N w/o songs/rolls while someone has soloed it... that is troubling.

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Well it's more of a problem where ppl don't want to even attempt it without an "optimal comp" and if I go "hey guys there are no PLDs or song/roll people biting one of you DD is gonna need to hold hate and we might need to try it with a weird setup" most people seem to jump ship because they don't wanna risk losing or having to do something like MNK tanking.

and "lowering the difficulty" makes them jump ship even faster.

Do you have any friends you can do it with? Like I said, its been *soloed* that means you can handle it with one support and a decent DD. You need optimal gear like DT sets and such though, so if you aren't confident in your skills you can only do a lower difficulty. People can still tank w/o being a PLD, I do it all the time on BLU. You need decent ilevel gear like skirmish3 gear or reforged relic gear. People have trioed delve zones, AA fights on difficult etc. I've personally gone with odd setups to many different fights and still won. The only thing you really need that cookie cutter setup on is specific NMs and VD fights. Even then GEO will suffice and they are probably easier to find than BRD.

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Originally Posted by Granis

Hey, I've been trying to get into parties or form my own to actually do some events, and I and other leaders are finding it harder and harder to get enough people together to do high tier battlefields/skirmish/incursion/delve/etc. especialy when you consider how "strict" party roles are.

I just feel like it's hard to get anything done in terms of endgame events if it's gotten so hard to fill a party out for high tier battlefields or skirmish or even Adoulin missions, sometimes It's really, REALLY difficult to get that elusive Aegis/Ochain PLD or a COR or BRD so you have songs/rolls. I just feel like with the limited server pop being able to find good PLDs as well as a good buffer job, and some nights it's even hard to find that last DD sometimes.

I'm willing to admit it just might be my server. but even when I'm not taking charge as a WHM and forming my own group (which is what I usually have to do.), when I join someone else's shout, it just falls apart because we can't find one more person or we can't find x or y job we need to have a good party comp.

days like these makes me really miss the pre-SoA days where more people could tank besides Aegis/Ochain PLDs (remember how prolific NIN tanks were in Aby? or hell, WAR with /NIN tanks?) and that not having that BRD or COR didn't destroy your chances of getting anything done. back in Aby a lot of the time we had to roll without songs or rolls and we had to try our best to make due. (granted we had cruor buffs and Atma back then, but hell, for VW and those other non-Aby events pre-SoA that was a bigger deal.) But now it seems a lot of contents you NEED good rolls or songs, and/or you NEED a good GEO, and a good core of other mage support types for stunnign and all that, which I guess would make things more interesting if it wasn't so hard to even get such strict compositions together.

It's really cool SE is trying to fix these group coordinating problems with LS Concierges and the Unity thing, but the Unity thing is just going to be another big NM event you probably on't have the right party comp to actually do.

It's ahh, it's frustrating. even LS groups might be hard to pull off if your LSes don't have the right mix of jobs.

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It is more difficult, and yes lack of population is a big problem but also the fact most people are capped on gear so they get nothing but chapters, and most don't even need those. Most people don't like playing BRD and PLD (DD only mentality) or tend to stick with their friends and groups they know, but the lack of needing anything is he big issue. One thing I've learned in the past few months on this game unless it's your friends helping someone out is a crime. If I don't benefit from it {See you again!}

I think its because once you beat the story missions there really isn't much left to do with the game. I know me and a lot of other people feel the same way.

I did delve and AA fights, and got a 119 set of gear for my paladin but do i need anymore gear from other stuff? Not really its really similar to the 119 AF set I have. Can I beat any content in the game, with 1 set of 119 gear yes. After I beat stuff once do I have a reason to keep farming it? Not really.

I think a lot of the issue with the BCs stems from the fact that they cost merits to enter. Your average/casual player takes way longer to farm merits than a hardcore/dedicated player would. This makes it so that the average player will not want to attempt the content unless they perceive a high chance of success.

The drop rate on the BCs is also fairly low on Normal or lower, enough so that more casual players will not see value in repeated runs, especially when the drops they want are a 1 in 4+ chance even after the low drop rate. If drops were to be increased to 100% on normal, 50%+ chance of 2 drops on Difficult, and 100% 2 drops on Very Difficult, you would likely see more players tackle this content as well as high end players aiming for the top.

As far as Delve goes, a lot of the problems stem from the fact that the mobs in Delve 1 still need to be stunned. Finding a competent stunner is hard, even for the highest level of endgame groups. No matter how strong your DD are or how good your support is, most parties will get wrecked by Delve 1 mob attacks without a good stunner. This is bad because most of the Delve 1 gear is a good entry point to the rest of the 119 endgame gear, but your average players are unable to complete it in a pickup setting. People are paying 5m gil to get these clears from players that sneeze at the content and clear it and that's not how it should be.

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Originally Posted by Granis

Hey, I've been trying to get into parties or form my own to actually do some events, and I and other leaders are finding it harder and harder to get enough people together to do high tier battlefields/skirmish/incursion/delve/etc. especialy when you consider how "strict" party roles are.

I just feel like it's hard to get anything done in terms of endgame events if it's gotten so hard to fill a party out for high tier battlefields or skirmish or even Adoulin missions, sometimes It's really, REALLY difficult to get that elusive Aegis/Ochain PLD or a COR or BRD so you have songs/rolls. I just feel like with the limited server pop being able to find good PLDs as well as a good buffer job, and some nights it's even hard to find that last DD sometimes.

I'm willing to admit it just might be my server. but even when I'm not taking charge as a WHM and forming my own group (which is what I usually have to do.), when I join someone else's shout, it just falls apart because we can't find one more person or we can't find x or y job we need to have a good party comp.

days like these makes me really miss the pre-SoA days where more people could tank besides Aegis/Ochain PLDs (remember how prolific NIN tanks were in Aby? or hell, WAR with /NIN tanks?) and that not having that BRD or COR didn't destroy your chances of getting anything done. back in Aby a lot of the time we had to roll without songs or rolls and we had to try our best to make due. (granted we had cruor buffs and Atma back then, but hell, for VW and those other non-Aby events pre-SoA that was a bigger deal.) But now it seems a lot of contents you NEED good rolls or songs, and/or you NEED a good GEO, and a good core of other mage support types for stunnign and all that, which I guess would make things more interesting if it wasn't so hard to even get such strict compositions together.

It's really cool SE is trying to fix these group coordinating problems with LS Concierges and the Unity thing, but the Unity thing is just going to be another big NM event you probably on't have the right party comp to actually do.

It's ahh, it's frustrating. even LS groups might be hard to pull off if your LSes don't have the right mix of jobs.

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A lot of the jobs are skippable, you definitely don't need a BRD, COR nor ochain/aegis PLD to beat the BC unless you're doing VD. Once I've seen a PUG leader refuse to enter a Normal difficulty BC without a BRD in pt, claiming it's 100% wipe without a BRD. It took me a while to convince him that it's completely not worth the time to /shout for a BRD and N is doable without a BRD. In the end we won fairly easily as well.

Next time if you can't find certain jobs, just go without them.

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Originally Posted by Granis

Hey, I've been trying to get into parties or form my own to actually do some events, and I and other leaders are finding it harder and harder to get enough people together to do high tier battlefields/skirmish/incursion/delve/etc. especialy when you consider how "strict" party roles are.

I just feel like it's hard to get anything done in terms of endgame events if it's gotten so hard to fill a party out for high tier battlefields or skirmish or even Adoulin missions, sometimes It's really, REALLY difficult to get that elusive Aegis/Ochain PLD or a COR or BRD so you have songs/rolls. I just feel like with the limited server pop being able to find good PLDs as well as a good buffer job, and some nights it's even hard to find that last DD sometimes.

I'm willing to admit it just might be my server. but even when I'm not taking charge as a WHM and forming my own group (which is what I usually have to do.), when I join someone else's shout, it just falls apart because we can't find one more person or we can't find x or y job we need to have a good party comp.

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It's cause job balance is borked and the fun has been sucked out of events. I have a 3 song bard that can do most events no problem but I got sick of only ever playing it, and being treated like crap when I did play it. Frankly support jobs are a pain to play because everyone feels entitled to yell at you if you don't play perfectly.

Now I see people shout for an hour for a bard for an event I could do but I'd rather level up my goldsmithing or something because I just don't have fun in pick up groups anymore. Abyssea was a good time, the game was chill there was content for all kinds of players, these days its "BE PERFECT OR DIE" and, frankly, I don't have the patience for it 99% of the time. I know I can't be alone.

Honestly, the devs need to up drop rates in easier difficulty levels a bit, so that people can lower the difficulty a bit and still have a chance of getting something more than a chapter. The game is supposed to be fun but the grim drop rates at "normal" and below make it so it doesn't feel like there is any point in doing the content at all unless it is on higher difficulties and at higher difficulties it's not fun anymore.

If the devs think that they are keeping players around by artificially extending the life of this content by making it no fun to do... well that's a really really crappy plan. Abyssea proved that giving plentiful rewards and having fun content that encouraged some job diversity gives life to the game.

I'm okay with like 1 event being "hardcore only" but right now I feel like every event requires a near perfect set up of a handful of jobs with perfect gearswaps etc. and it's just not fun.

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Originally Posted by Afania

A lot of the jobs are skippable, you definitely don't need a BRD, COR nor ochain/aegis PLD to beat the BC unless you're doing VD. Once I've seen a PUG leader refuse to enter a Normal difficulty BC without a BRD in pt, claiming it's 100% wipe without a BRD. It took me a while to convince him that it's completely not worth the time to /shout for a BRD and N is doable without a BRD. In the end we won fairly easily as well.

Next time if you can't find certain jobs, just go without them.

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Yeah, I guess next time I can just go "we have this many people, PST with jobs" and not stress out over getting those buffs and that cookie cutter tank. and just take whoever shows up, even if it's just me on WHM with 5 random DD (even if they are all SAM because Samurai Fantasy 11) at least one of the DD should hopefully have a hate holding/not die gearset.

I think one of the reasons is people are using the unity concord and joining linkshells and forming groups with those systems and that's reducing the number of shouts and candidates available when shouting.

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Originally Posted by Olor

It's cause job balance is borked and the fun has been sucked out of events. I have a 3 song bard that can do most events no problem but I got sick of only ever playing it, and being treated like crap when I did play it. Frankly support jobs are a pain to play because everyone feels entitled to yell at you if you don't play perfectly.

Now I see people shout for an hour for a bard for an event I could do but I'd rather level up my goldsmithing or something because I just don't have fun in pick up groups anymore. Abyssea was a good time, the game was chill there was content for all kinds of players, these days its "BE PERFECT OR DIE" and, frankly, I don't have the patience for it 99% of the time. I know I can't be alone.

Honestly, the devs need to up drop rates in easier difficulty levels a bit, so that people can lower the difficulty a bit and still have a chance of getting something more than a chapter. The game is supposed to be fun but the grim drop rates at "normal" and below make it so it doesn't feel like there is any point in doing the content at all unless it is on higher difficulties and at higher difficulties it's not fun anymore.

If the devs think that they are keeping players around by artificially extending the life of this content by making it no fun to do... well that's a really really crappy plan. Abyssea proved that giving plentiful rewards and having fun content that encouraged some job diversity gives life to the game.

I'm okay with like 1 event being "hardcore only" but right now I feel like every event requires a near perfect set up of a handful of jobs with perfect gearswaps etc. and it's just not fun.

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OMG yes, this is so true and has been since SoA came out.

As an ochain/excalibur pld, even I still don't have delve clears and am finding it impossible to get a group on Bahamut. I recognize a big part of my problem was that I was really turned off by Adoulin and the announcement of iLvl, and so originally I had no interest in the content and didn't put much effort in. However, after taking a break and returning, it seems the only way I'm going to get a delve clear is to either lvl and gear brd, or gear my sch. I'm not really up for playing a job I don't want to play, just to clear content - so that ultimately means no Delve for me.

I can see the predicament SE is in: if they make Delve inclusive for all jobs, that will probably also mean making the event easier. This means those who enjoy the difficulty aren't happy - either way, somebody isn't happy.

I wish I had an answer, but there probably isn't one other than leveling the cookie cutter job needed and doing the work. Party finders definitely aren't the answer, that was a disaster in FFXIV.

With regard to PLD in Delve, if that's the only job you're advertising, you won't get delve clears since in the typical set ups for low man delve, you only need PLD for Marjami and even then, it would be really beneficial to have an Aegis for the megaboss.

Another problem is that most people who regularly clear delve, do so in a sort of static, they have the winning formula and continue to stick with it as it makes them a substantial amount of gil.

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Originally Posted by Oakrest

However, after taking a break and returning, it seems the only way I'm going to get a delve clear is to either lvl and gear brd, or gear my sch. I'm not really up for playing a job I don't want to play, just to clear content - so that ultimately means no Delve for me.

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My hours are junk anymore, and tbh I've never seen you around in game, but if you catch me online, hit me up. Not going to lie, Pld doesn't have much use in Delve, but a few friends and I randomly do lowish man Delve just cause. Could prolly get you in for a quick clear or three.

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Originally Posted by Malithar

My hours are junk anymore, and tbh I've never seen you around in game, but if you catch me online, hit me up. Not going to lie, Pld doesn't have much use in Delve, but a few friends and I randomly do lowish man Delve just cause. Could prolly get you in for a quick clear or three.

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Whoa awesome dude! You're also on Bahamut? I'll try and message you anytime I'm on (usually EST pm hours).

And yea, I've come to realize PLD isn't needed or useful in Delve (hence my previous post), I was mainly just posting to show some forum visitors that even a relic/empy pld can struggle clearing content if you don't know enough people / friends. That said, I have a ton of other jobs, just none that are ilvl (or more importantly than I'm enjoying playing these days) such as cor, sch, mnk, etc. Perhaps cor would be useful since it's less iLvl dependent? In any case, it would be fun to meetup!

Back on SoA early days, there were big demands for MNKs to do delves. And so, I do spend about a week cap-levelling & skilling it, and maybe another week working on preliminary gears especially the one that helps enhance that 100 fist skill. And boy, I do get in those content quite easily. Not so much these days. ^^;

Heck, I can't even get a VW clears on Jeuno. Only thing I can do for the time being is joining most popular shouted stuff, like WKR or Skirmishes.

Anyways, I'm only here for the free login campaign, and unfortunately have to go back to XIV when it's over again. And with those troubles with payment options, it's getting even more harder for me to make longer returns.