Yet another spell request thread

Dispel II - removes one special effect from the target (auras, spikes, 1 hour effects, and any other currently non-dispellable effects).

This would obviously be overpowered as is, which is why special effects would have lowest dispel priority, meaning if the target has normally dispellable effects on it too then it would target those first. It would also be on a suitably long recast timer, probably 2 minutes or more. We all know Red Mage isn't getting anything without crappy mechanics like this attached.

Virus - Inflicts plague on the target

Plenty of other ways to inflict plague or other forms of tp reduction, seems reasonable to ask for it.

Here's one I haven't seen yet:

Enrage (aka Berserk) - Locks the monster onto it's current target for the duration of the spell, regardless of changes in enmity.

Yeah probably a pipe dream, but it would slap a Band-Aid on the enmity cap issues. At best it would be another long recast spell, at worst anything worth using it on would be immune.

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Originally Posted by Zekander

It would also be on a suitably long recast timer, probably 2 minutes or more.

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There's a systemic issue concerning recast times as a means of balancing a spell though. That 2 minute recast is essentially a 24 (22 with /Sch Arts) second recast when cast in a capped recast set. As these and other forums have shown, not everyone is as apt to gear for such a tool in order to maximize it's use, making a recast of anywhere from 22-120 seconds far from balancing. Such an effect is fairly powerful anyways, some NMs only dangerous phase is during Mighty Strikes, Chainspell, etc. Being able to nullify these effects are tied solely to a 1 hour timer atm with Larceny. Even something silly like a 10 minute recast timer could be dropped to as low as 108 seconds. Just hard to imagine it being balanced around anything besides absolutely terrible MAcc, which then creates the situation of it being nearly useless. Spam cast it in the hopes of landing it, only for the SP effect to wear off before it lands. XD

Props on Enrage though, that would prove useful in melee based zergs at least, or during the final push on an NM with Rngs when you know hate isn't far from capping. Without being able to keep the effect on 100%, can't imagine it being much of a band-aid for the hate system as a whole though. Think it'd prolly come with a mild increase in +damage as well to balance it to create situations where even though you may want to cement a mob onto a target, it's not preferred due to the possibility of death.

Thanks, I had completely forgotten about /SCH. That pretty much explains why they haven't implemented any form of Dispel II after all these years.

I also rethought my stance on Virus. While it would only be a mild debuff in party situations, it could potentially be very powerful for soloing powerful mobs, where you could slow your tp feed to the point where they would never use a tp move. I think that pretty much spells the end of that as well.

Obviously if you could keep Enrage up 100% it would be overpowered, but I also thought that the strategy involved in using it would be a balancing factor. That is, you can't cast it when hate is already bouncing all over the place, you would need to communicate to the party to ensure it's effectiveness.

Two more spells I would like to see though:

Bravery - Increases physical damage dealt and physical damage taken.

Faith - Increases magic damage dealt and magic damage taken.

Obviously Faith is the more useful of the two, but you could possibly use Bravery on mobs that are not too aoe happy or just trash mobs that can't hurt you anyway, since it seems SE means to keep RDM melee as solo only.

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Originally Posted by Zekander

Dispel II - removes one special effect from the target (auras, spikes, 1 hour effects, and any other currently non-dispellable effects).

This would obviously be overpowered as is, which is why special effects would have lowest dispel priority, meaning if the target has normally dispellable effects on it too then it would target those first. It would also be on a suitably long recast timer, probably 2 minutes or more. We all know Red Mage isn't getting anything without crappy mechanics like this attached.

Virus - Inflicts plague on the target

Plenty of other ways to inflict plague or other forms of tp reduction, seems reasonable to ask for it.

Here's one I haven't seen yet:

Enrage (aka Berserk) - Locks the monster onto it's current target for the duration of the spell, regardless of changes in enmity.

Yeah probably a pipe dream, but it would slap a Band-Aid on the enmity cap issues. At best it would be another long recast spell, at worst anything worth using it on would be immune.

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I think you should un-scratch out virus on your OP because it's actually a great idea IMHO.

TP feed is actually a case where I think this game's battle system is flawed because it disadvantages certain play-styles in unfair ways. SE tried to address it by adding subtle blow mechanics but I still don't think it went far enough. So I would like to see the Virus spell become available, not only to Red Mages but to White and Blue mages as well. Possibly even more jobs too.

The enrage spell sounds cool also, so long as it had a fairly long recast timer which you pointed out it would. Though I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with this game's enmity system.

I have to concur with the previous poster though that the dispel II ability would probably be too powerful.

BLU can already inflict a fairly potent plague with the spell Lowing, though probably with limited accuracy (I don't know I don't play BLU). I don't really see Virus as a white mage kind of spell, plus WHM already has Auspice to reduce TP gain. I can see them giving it to BLM and/or SCH but that wouldn't be very fair to RDM, which are (apparently) supposed to be the masters of enfeebling and yet have so few exclusive enfeebling spells.

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Originally Posted by Zekander

BLU can already inflict a fairly potent plague with the spell Lowing, though probably with limited accuracy (I don't know I don't play BLU). I don't really see Virus as a white mage kind of spell, plus WHM already has Auspice to reduce TP gain. I can see them giving it to BLM and/or SCH but that wouldn't be very fair to RDM, which are (apparently) supposed to be the masters of enfeebling and yet have so few exclusive enfeebling spells.

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Well if that's the case, and Blue Mages and White mages already have similar spells all the more reason Red Mage should be getting virus.

So I would un-scratch it :)

actually blu has plague which is stronger version of disease(lowing is disease btw, and its acc is horrible because blus abused it on kirin to stop his regen) from delta strike its still fairly accurate as well, think its somthing like -10 tp (and i would assume mp as well) per tic. Probably should have clarified this earlier on but disease simply stops the regeneration of hp and mp plague actually starts eating the targets mp and tp. Presonaly i would like rdm to get a similar but diffrent debuff, maby somthing like Bleed but instead of mp and tp, drops hp and tp.

On faith and bravery i like faith as is(tho maybe a penalty to mevasion instead of mdef or mdt) , but bravery wouldn't be used like that, and would be alittle to close to berserk, maybe make it lower the chance for defensive traits to proc (parry block evasion ext)

Thanks, I was just going by what wiki says about BLU spells, and I know it's pretty outdated now.

As for Faith and Bravery, I was just going on what the stats do in FF tactics and trying to make a compromise between what we might want and what SE wants us to have (though that is apparently nothing).

Well traditionally bravery had no negative, and actually raised the chance for reaction abilitys, and faith was more for the boost of macc(and loss of mevasion) than for pure dmg boost i mean there was some just wasn't that much on someone you were already using as a nuker

Right again, it's been a while since I played Tactics, sorry about that. However it seems unlikely that SE is going to give RDM anything without a significant downside, though they did give us Haste II, but of course now they plan on giving it to everyone else so pretty much our only leverage in parties will be gone again.

still have flurry 2. dia 3. frazzle 2. slow2. refresh 2. still can do things like backup tank, backup healer.

So we are still slightly more effective then any other job subbing RDM. /hurray

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Originally Posted by Zekander

So we are still slightly more effective then any other job subbing RDM. /hurray

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I would also add Distract II, Paralyze II and Phalanx II into the mix.

I'm not sure how they plan on giving haste II to everyone. So I don't know the details about what you mean when you say that. But to be honest, haste generally is such a powerful effect it did need to be spread around a bit more.

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Originally Posted by Zekander

So we are still slightly more effective then any other job subbing RDM. /hurray

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do a stymie, saboteur distract 2 on Wopket. with that and buffs, DDs don't even need to switch to accuracy gear when it does its flash move. Let's see another job do that. oh wait, they can't, cuz they aren't going to land distract nine times out of 10. Flurry 2 makes it so you can kill DM on very difficult with less than two full parties. I can go on more, but I hope you get the point. Negative people like you should at least try to be realistic. I'm not asking for optimism, just realism. Get out of your small little view of how things are and take in the whole picture. RDM is a support class that can also be a backup tank and backup healer. We cripple mobs and enhance greatly party members. All the while we are still able to swing our sword as well.

Perhaps the sarcasm as unwarranted, I'm just a bitter cynic. However, I'm fairly certain that realism doesn't include backup tanking or swinging swords in party situations. Perhaps you have friends who allow you to do these things, but the reality is that most people don't. I could go on but I don't want to derail this thread any further, I made a separate thread for that purpose.

Does anyone have any other suggestions for spells they would like Red Mage to have?

i have no problem holding an NM when a PLD dies. i also swing my sword every time i go to delve as RDM. I do a lot of damage too. Last Wopket I did about 85k (little over 12% of the damage). Obviously it's not going to be anywhere near what the SAM that has SP abilities that are great for zerg damage. But I am not that far off of a mnk or war.

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Originally Posted by Protey

i have no problem holding an NM when a PLD dies. i also swing my sword every time i go to delve as RDM. I do a lot of damage too. Last Wopket I did about 85k (little over 12% of the damage). Obviously it's not going to be anywhere near what the SAM that has SP abilities that are great for zerg damage. But I am not that far off of a mnk or war.

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Agreed. This notion that a Red Mage can't melee effectively is just not grounded in reality - because they can.

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Originally Posted by Zekander

Perhaps the sarcasm as unwarranted, I'm just a bitter cynic. However, I'm fairly certain that realism doesn't include backup tanking or swinging swords in party situations. Perhaps you have friends who allow you to do these things, but the reality is that most people don't. I could go on but I don't want to derail this thread any further, I made a separate thread for that purpose.

Does anyone have any other suggestions for spells they would like Red Mage to have?

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I saw another poster suggest Amnesia. So maybe you could add that to your list. That would be a really cool spell for Red Mages.

Yeah, but a full amnesia spell would definitely be overpowered. Unless it had such a short duration that it was effectively similar to Stun, but even then giving RDM two different forms of stun would probably be overpowered as well. I liked the idea of an Addle type effect for TP moves, can't think of a name for a spell like that atm though.

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Originally Posted by Zekander

Yeah, but a full amnesia spell would definitely be overpowered. Unless it had such a short duration that it was effectively similar to Stun, but even then giving RDM two different forms of stun would probably be overpowered as well. I liked the idea of an Addle type effect for TP moves, can't think of a name for a spell like that atm though.

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To be honest with you: the way some of these NMs spam abilities - especially if a lot of melee jobs are on top of them - it's pretty ludicrous and I think a spell like Amensia is warranted. As long as it had a reasonable duration and recast that is. I agree a full amnesia spell a Red Mage could keep up indefinitely would be too powerful. But I like the idea of one that could be well-timed to stop certain effects - like a chain spell blizzaga which I experienced the other day lol

I like the idea of a addle-like spell for tp moves too. Sounds good to me.