Question regarding THF/COR/RNG (noob returning)

So i recently came back to the game after having read about all the changes. I know alot of people are divided on weather the changes are good or bad but personally as someone who was on more the one occasion demoralized from trying desperately to find lvling parties. (I joined the game in 2004) its nice to be able to play at my own pace and get something done when logging on for only an hour.

Anyways i have a few questions and most of the job threads are out of date.

1. Is thf and / or COR in any way a desirable DD end game? assuming they are geared properly?

2. I know about the recycle trait but as someone who is interested in playing RNG and COR, its seems a bit of a dead end if i want to play using a gun, as ammo is not on the AH? would i have to level ALC to craft my own ammo to even hope to enjoy the jobs end game?

cor will allways be a desirable job not so much as a dd but as a buffer/dd and rng is all the rage these days. the main ammo in the game you buy with a currency you get from doing delve (endgame) but don't worry you can get enough currency for 2 stacks of these bullets from a failed delve run so its easy to get, thf seems to be a for yourself job these days as I rarely see it in endgame (but I could be wrong as I rarely play it) hope this answers your question

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Originally Posted by Exeeter

1. Is thf and / or COR in any way a desirable DD end game? assuming they are geared properly?

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Thief and Corsair have places in end game content, but they might not exactly be top tier DDs in all situations. While I won't speak for if they're considered damage dealers or not since I haven't exactly been putting parties together lately, I can speak for their being useful.

For example, Ranger can generally output a massive amount of damage, whereas Corsair has a more utility function to bridge any gap instead. The amount of attack you can give a party from dice rolls is not insignificant by any means.

Likewise, regardless of damage, Thief has some nice utility functions including their new(ish) SP ability that allows them to steal buffs including monster's respective SP abilities after they've used them.

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Originally Posted by Exeeter

2. I know about the recycle trait but as someone who is interested in playing RNG and COR, its seems a bit of a dead end if i want to play using a gun, as ammo is not on the AH? would i have to level ALC to craft my own ammo to even hope to enjoy the jobs end game?

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Certain bullets are seen on the AH more often, such as Bismuth Bullets and their Pouches, Orichalcum Bullets, Steel Bullet Pouches, and Adaman Bullet Pouches.

There are a few things you can do to help yourself get ammo, but crafting some of it is the surest way to make sure you have access to it at a price you can afford, especially for lower level bullets so you can skill up. Don't forget that you can obtain crafting materials and shout to commission some bullets if you really don't want to craft any yourself.

Outside of crafting it, there are a few NPCs that sell normal Bullets, such as Olaf in the Metalworks. Farming the Bronze Bandolier can also be a big help, especially if you have some mules who can farm one too.

If you do Delve you can eventually buy the Adlivun Bullets for a small amount of Plasm.

Remember to use cheaper bullets while skilling up (or a crossbow and bolts when you can), so as not to break the bank.

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Originally Posted by Exeeter

1. Is thf and / or COR in any way a desirable DD end game? assuming they are geared properly?

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Geared and played properly, both are capable of respectable numbers. Your DPS will be more of a supplemental nature compared to a main job DD though. The problem with the two jobs are more community based than performance based. Thf is commonly thought of as TH only (though a good deal of recent content does benefit from TH) and Cor has been pushed to the realm of a mules job, except for some of the most devoted players. With that in mind, you may have issues finding groups that take you seriously, or take you at all over someone's mule Thf or Cor.

Cor specifically has taken a backseat lately in the buff department, Geo and Brd are both typically preferred over it, however some of it's luck based JA resets and such are still desired and helpful, if they work, in content. Specifically in Rng setup parties, Cor is very desirable for Courser's Roll though. Both benefit from easily taking a /Dnc sub and benefiting the party through Haste Samba (if your setup even benefits from this) and steps.

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2. I know about the recycle trait but as someone who is interested in playing RNG and COR, its seems a bit of a dead end if i want to play using a gun, as ammo is not on the AH? would i have to level ALC to craft my own ammo to even hope to enjoy the jobs end game?

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Some of the best ammo is available through other means, specifically plasm, plasm, and sparks ammos. There are some crafted ammos as well, but those are far weaker than the other options.

Crafted ammo here, here, and here. As you noticed, the AH isn't very populated with them. With the sparks bullets beating them, there's not much reason to bother with them, IMO.

1) Ppl tend to invite a THF for incursion or BC for TH, nobody really care about the output. However a well geared THF would deserve a DD spot.

COR isn't required in any event, but it's nice to have if it's well geared. Personally I think it's one of the top job for DD spot in most situations except VD BC zerg fights, most of the time it'd offer more party output than another SAM. But I'm biased, you know. In the world I live in, I'm not allowed to play any other job except COR >.>, so maybe my experience would be different from others.



2) Just buy ammo from NPC and skill up marksmanship(or use spark book to skill up), then use spark/plasm ammo in endgame. You would want to melee for TP with /DNC and WS most of the time in endgame unless using RNG setup, with recycle from gears you can finish multiple runs with 1 stack of bullet.

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Originally Posted by Malithar

Cor is very desirable for Courser's Roll though. Both benefit from easily taking a /Dnc sub and benefiting the party through Haste Samba (if your setup even benefits from this) and steps.

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Courser's roll can be skipped with flurry2 I think. However, allies roll buffs SC dmg by %, which is unique to COR and something BRD nor GEO can't do.

I just wanted to chime in and say that I've been getting a lot of low-level arrows and bullets from the Gobbie Box, so make sure you check that each day as your points build up.
(I keep putting them on the AH and they don't sell; I guess no one needs them on my server.)

Not one person has mentioned the utility that THF offers through Feint and Conspirator, which can mean the difference between capping acc, or not on high tier content. Not to mention the extra subtle blow from Conpirator can reduce the TP spam of mobs.

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Originally Posted by Bebekeke

Not one person has mentioned the utility that THF offers through Feint and Conspirator, which can mean the difference between capping acc, or not on high tier content. Not to mention the extra subtle blow from Conpirator can reduce the TP spam of mobs.

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The problem with Feint and Conspirator is they can't be up that often. Feint at best can be up a fourth the time of the fight, and Conspirator a fifth. Also with the way tp works even if thfs could keep Conspirator up all the time they would still be the leading cause of tp gain for mobs.

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Originally Posted by Ulth

The problem with Feint and Conspirator is they can't be up that often. Feint at best can be up a fourth the time of the fight, and Conspirator a fifth.

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This. And with the very nature of accuracy, if you need those time limited buffs to cap acc, you're having much larger issues than trying to justify Thf as a DD. Accuracy should be capped full time. At best, with a tight knit group or just yourself, you could make sets that lack accuracy in favor of mutli hit, crit+, att, etc for when Feint is up, but such coordination isn't common.

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Originally Posted by Malithar

This. And with the very nature of accuracy, if you need those time limited buffs to cap acc, you're having much larger issues than trying to justify Thf as a DD. Accuracy should be capped full time. At best, with a tight knit group or just yourself, you could make sets that lack accuracy in favor of mutli hit, crit+, att, etc for when Feint is up, but such coordination isn't common.

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It's funny the nature of accuracy makes thf undesirable in another way too. What used to be thfs best defense skill is now more or less useless. While it's easy to cap evasion on weak fodder mobs, mobs that actually matter like NMs typically have capped accuracy against thfs, and many tp moves never miss. That coupled with how everything seems to be AoE attacks now makes it hard to stay alive on the front lines without having an exceptional whm. There is the true advantage of rngs over other DDs, they can deal their damage from a safe distance without adding additional stress to the healer all while putting their hate on the tank with decoy shot.

Also I must add thank you whms who know what they are doing. You guys make it possible to do set ups that aren't rng based.

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Originally Posted by Malithar

Cor specifically has taken a backseat lately in the buff department, Geo and Brd are both typically preferred over it, however some of it's luck based JA resets and such are still desired and helpful, if they work, in content. Specifically in Rng setup parties, Cor is very desirable for Courser's Roll though. Both benefit from easily taking a /Dnc sub and benefiting the party through Haste Samba (if your setup even benefits from this) and steps.

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Just sharing some opinion about all that "GEO is a better buff job than COR!" floating around recently. Pure support wise, while GEO buff/debuffs are potent than COR buff, and being a more versatile mage job overall, having limited buff slot is still one major weakness. On the other hand, COR is better as a job to do multiple buffs for different pt/jobs, in fact it's a better job than BRD on this aspect as well, thanks to 8+ min roll duration.

For example, most Incursion pt tend to put Crowd control jobs like RDM or BLM on different pt from DD pt, and they tend to ask for macc buffs to land stuff on higher ilv. On COR I can just do macc roll on 2nd pt, and switch back to DD pt for double DD rolls. In fact I can still do mage rolls for mages in the DD pt. On GEO you'd have to sacrifice a buff slot for macc/meva-.

With PR job points category COR buff can stay longer than 8 min, just switch to 2nd pt before NM, macc roll can stay pretty much the entire duration of the fight without the need to reroll.