Fish Usefulness

All the fish added during or prior to Chains of Promathia had a use. You could cook them, make them into ingredients for alchemy, fish up coral fragments, dredge up and repair rusted equipment, turn them in for guild points, or hand them over to Zaldon. And the fish from the ToAU expansion were basically the previous fish with new names, so they were also still used for the same purposes.

Nearly every fish added since then however, is entirely useless. They can't be made into any useful recipe, and the old fish's recipes are now outdated and worthless. They aren't used for guild points or fish ranking. You've made it quite clear they aren't even meant to be sold to NPC's for gil. Even the upwards of 30 new "Legendary Fish" that have been added to the game, only five or so are even usable by Zaldon for some sort of reward.

What then, is the point of fishing? Could you please go back and add useful new foods and potions made from all these new fish? I'm tired of reeling in mog garden nets full of fish I have to throw away, because they literally don't do anything! I'm tired of having a nearly capped fishing skill, and nothing to use it on because fish are not useful. Even when a fish is useful, you end up taking that use away. (When AttentiveIbuki required a moderately high level fish to make, for example, I was excited to have the skill necessary to get them. But then you just made them an incredibly common drop from the monsters in the area!) And why the hell are there so many "Legendary Fish" that are basically just inventory space-1, rather than a shot at some useful reward from Inside the Belly?

I ask you to please do a massive cooking recipe overhaul, changing and adding plenty of new useful foods using fish, furniture using fish, potions that use fish, quests that use fish, anything to make the hardest to level and most time consuming craft in the game useful. You overhauled the entire system to make it more user friendly, but there's no reason for the users to become friendly with it.

The legendary fish might be used in Inside the Belly at a later date... I believe they've done this before, added Leg. Fish and then gave them Inside the Belly later on. Still, I agree, hopefully they make a few more fish useful for something. Erm, train of thought, They added new Torques for crafting... maybe they'll come from Inside the Belly... while I personally hope not cause I don't have high enough fishing for it, maybe?

I think they are trying to make it clear between the recent gimp in npc prices (which were already a really bad way of making gil) to the aforementioned them not doing anything and then just sitting on their hands for the last 4 months with the huge bug that they inserted into fishing and haven't fixed last I checked that they don't want people to fish at all

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

The legendary fish might be used in Inside the Belly at a later date... I believe they've done this before, added Leg. Fish and then gave them Inside the Belly later on.

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While they didn't specify which fish, there was a dev comment a few weeks ago stating that they'd add Adoulin fish to Inside the Belly at a later date. As to when, which, and what may come of it, it's anyways guess. I'm glad Remoras come from Mog Garden though. ;)

Hello buoys and gills,

Thanks for the feedback on fishing!

As Malithar has said, while I can’t say an ofishal time frame or name any fish as of yet, we do plan on adding certain legendary fish from Adoulin areas to “Inside the Belly”. We’ll be looking into the reward items for these and once there is more information to share I’ll dolphinitely be sure to pass it on to you all. :)

I still fish off and on just for the halibut.

But seriously Matsya suck.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Hello buoys and gills,

Thanks for the feedback on fishing!

As Malithar has said, while I can’t say an ofishal time frame or name any fish as of yet, we do plan on adding certain legendary fish from Adoulin areas to “Inside the Belly”. We’ll be looking into the reward items for these and once there is more information to share I’ll dolphinitely be sure to pass it on to you all. :)

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Something was fishy about the amount of puns in that post... I may need to re-reef.

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Originally Posted by Camate

we do plan on adding certain legendary fish from Adoulin areas to “Inside the Belly”.

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I have no direct quarrel with this, but: please, please, no more items like Shaper's Shawl that affect other crafts. Especially not from a fish that essentially requires you be Ebisu-grade in skill and gear. Please, no more of those.

crafting torques GO

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Originally Posted by Rainehx

crafting torques GO

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god no... and just NO

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Originally Posted by woie

god no... and just NO

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You know thats going to be what they do >_>; and since they're R/EX, you'll have to fish em all up yourself, like Shaper's Shawl :D

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

You know thats going to be what they do >_>; and since they're R/EX, you'll have to fish em all up yourself, like Shaper's Shawl :D

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You mean you'll have to turn the fish in yourself like shapers. You don't have to fish anything (well other than enough to unlock the quest that lets you gut)

I know, gotta be 30 fishing for Inside the Belly, I thought about correcting it but decided it was too much effort :I

Bumping this thread since I have some follow-up information!

Instead of making current legendary fish from Adoulin areas applicable for “Inside the Belly”, the team is planning to add new legendary fish that can be used for this quest.

I’m herring that the rewards are something that will make you hooked and really let you brag about how masterful of a fisher you are!

Implementation is still a bit off, but I'll let you know when there is more information!

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Instead of making current legendary fish from Adoulin areas applicable for “Inside the Belly”, the team is planning to add new legendary fish that can be used for this quest.

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That's cool and all but...

is nothing is being done to improve the fish that are currently worthless?

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Originally Posted by Olor

That's cool and all but...

is nothing is being done to improve the fish that are currently worthless?

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i look at it this way.... you don't use low level gear anymore unless you are doing low level content. so you won't use those old fish that are used for old recipes unless you're doing that low level content.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Bumping this thread since I have some follow-up information!

Instead of making current legendary fish from Adoulin areas applicable for “Inside the Belly”, the team is planning to add new legendary fish that can be used for this quest.

I’m herring that the rewards are something that will make you hooked and really let you brag about how masterful of a fisher you are!

Implementation is still a bit off, but I'll let you know when there is more information!

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ok Cam, we all like you but with those puns... if this was the Gong Show "BBOOOONNGGG"

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Originally Posted by Protey

i look at it this way.... you don't use low level gear anymore unless you are doing low level content. so you won't use those old fish that are used for old recipes unless you're doing that low level content.

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But the Ulbukan fish are worthless too... Ruddy seema are used in a now entirely worthless crab jug, the mussels are used in a non repeatable quest, and that's it. And those are easier to get from a rank 1 mog garden than fishing them yourself anyway.

Take the 4 sea serpents. (Hakuryu, Sekiryu, etc.) Have them made into sushi with an acc/racc cap of 170 to match riverfin soups 80 att 90 acc, or magma steak's att +180. Have each one give +10 to a different base stat based on which serpent it is. Maybe Double attack +2, crit hit rate +2, MDB+5, and MAB+5, acc/racc+170 but take all 4 serpents to make some sort of rainbow roll instead.

Take Ulbukan lobster, Pterygotus, Shen, king locust, skull locust, selbina butter, and a persikos. Have it add Def+100 Eva +50, Pet Def +150 Pet Eva +100. Call it Eft's Delight.

Take a Bloodblotch, a yorchette, ulbukan coconut, beast blood, and el pachira fruit. Make it a drink that gives 7 mp/tick refresh and 1 hp/tick poison.

Just some examples. Bam, there are fish that are useful again. Fishing skill isn't worthless, Fishermen can make money selling them. Some old useless ingredients get used again. (Seriously, how many damn ingredients did you add just for jug pets that immediately became worthless because they have a level cap?) Crafters get more recipes to make. It only takes an afternoon to do the whole thing. Everyone wins.

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Originally Posted by Louispv

But the Ulbukan fish are worthless too... Ruddy seema are used in a now entirely worthless crab jug, the mussels are used in a non repeatable quest, and that's it. And those are easier to get from a rank 1 mog garden than fishing them yourself anyway.

Take the 4 sea serpents. (Hakuryu, Sekiryu, etc.) Have them made into sushi with an acc/racc cap of 170 to match riverfin soups 80 att 90 acc, or magma steak's att +180. Have each one give +10 to a different base stat based on which serpent it is. Maybe Double attack +2, crit hit rate +2, MDB+5, and MAB+5, acc/racc+170 but take all 4 serpents to make some sort of rainbow roll instead.

Take Ulbukan lobster, Pterygotus, Shen, king locust, skull locust, selbina butter, and a persikos. Have it add Def+100 Eva +50, Pet Def +150 Pet Eva +100. Call it Eft's Delight.

Take a Bloodblotch, a yorchette, ulbukan coconut, beast blood, and el pachira fruit. Make it a drink that gives 7 mp/tick refresh and 1 hp/tick poison.

Just some examples. Bam, there are fish that are useful again. Fishing skill isn't worthless, Fishermen can make money selling them. Some old useless ingredients get used again. (Seriously, how many damn ingredients did you add just for jug pets that immediately became worthless because they have a level cap?) Crafters get more recipes to make. It only takes an afternoon to do the whole thing. Everyone wins.

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and here i thought ruddy seema was just used as a skillup synth. There are lots of items that are used just for skilling up crafts but the end products are pretty much worthless otherwise. Fish are just another one of those items.

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Originally Posted by Protey

and here i thought ruddy seema was just used as a skillup synth. There are lots of items that are used just for skilling up crafts but the end products are pretty much worthless otherwise. Fish are just another one of those items.

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No item was like that until WoTG though. (Excluding nidhog scales which took 7 years to add a use for.) Everything was for a quest, or used in a recipe, or was useful in it's own right. It wasn't always the best use, since some gear was objectively better than others and some food better than others, but you could potentially use all of it. But then WoTG added a bunch of worthless fish, and then so did Seekers of Adoulin. Even the trash materials added in SoA for other crafts is made into usable items, even if those usable items became worthless when a higher item level came along later. But most of these fish are literally not even in any recipe. Just eat your bait and then npc them for less than the bait cost.

FFXIV did the same thing, but at least you can gut all the fish to get crystals for your other crafts, there.

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Originally Posted by Louispv

No item was like that until WoTG though. (Excluding nidhog scales which took 7 years to add a use for.) Everything was for a quest, or used in a recipe, or was useful in it's own right. It wasn't always the best use, since some gear was objectively better than others and some food better than others, but you could potentially use all of it. But then WoTG added a bunch of worthless fish, and then so did Seekers of Adoulin. Even the trash materials added in SoA for other crafts is made into usable items, even if those usable items became worthless when a higher item level came along later. But most of these fish are literally not even in any recipe. Just eat your bait and then npc them for less than the bait cost.

FFXIV did the same thing, but at least you can gut all the fish to get crystals for your other crafts, there.

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To counter your claims, these fish existed before WoTG:

Before WoTG came along, the Greedie fish had no uses other than to skillup.
Gurnard has no uses other than skillup.
Tricolored Carp has no uses other than skillup.
Lungfish has no uses other than skillup.
Before adding it to Inside the Belly well after it was added to the game, Yayinbaligi didn't have a use other than skillup.
Gold Carp has no uses other than skillup.
Sazanbaligi has no uses other than skillup.
Crescent Fish has no uses other than skillup.
Before level cap increase and adding it to Inside the Belly well after it was added to the game, Bladefish didn't have a use other than skillup.
Tavnazian Goby has no uses other than skillup.
Before adding it to Inside the Belly well after it was added to the game, Turnabaligi didn't have a use other than skillup.
Before adding it to Inside the Belly well after it was added to the game, Giant Chirai didn't have a use other than skillup.
Before adding it to Inside the Belly well after it was added to the game, Tricorn didn't have a use other than skillup.

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Originally Posted by Olor

That's cool and all but...

is nothing is being done to improve the fish that are currently worthless?

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Ha! That's not how it works! Instead, they make the old less wanted (via fishing at least).

I'm of course referring to matsya, and how they can be obtained via the Mog Gardens now. It's cool, in that pretty much anyone can find one, and well, it's not that there have been many around for people to buy, for which the reason is of course the effort it takes to reel in even one of them.

Here's a bit something (manually kept notes, which are probably not absolutely 100% error-free) from between

07/07/1198 Watersday 10:22
Waxing Gibbous (62%)
28 Apr., 2014 0:10:30

and

05/07/1207 Firesday 10:55
Waning Crescent (29%)
04 Sep., 2014 12:40:13

with a skill level of 101 (start) to 109 (end), with all the equipment on top including Mega Moglification towards the end of the way (which only seemed to make things worse, hahahadgfh...):

Total Casts 3592

Matsya 166
Snapsya 275
Jellyfish 373
Monster 290
Dividedbyzarrro 4
Failfish 5
Nothing 1050
Arrowwood log 352
Rusty 1082
bucket 264
leggings 522
subligar 296

That's about 740 drill calamaries and/or dwarf pugils, from which actually only 426 I fished for myself between

3/1/1193 Watersday 10:41
Waning Gibbous (62%)
7 Feb., 2014 14:32:52

and

11/09/1206 Watersday 6:10
Waxing Gibbous (71%)
23 Aug., 2014 18:14:21

which was about 1673 cave cherax (that is, 25% of them had bait). The rest, if my notes are to be believed, came from log-in campaigns (in which by the by I think their price is still too high!). I did not keep a record on the exact amount of bait I got from these campaigns, unfortunately, but as long as my matsya and cave cherax notes are not wildly off, the numbers should be quite accurate.

That's almost half a year for two (2) shaper's shawls and indeed only 166 matsya.

Obviously I did not fish every day, all day, but when I did, it would be pretty much the only thing I would/could do that day in Vana'diel.

What I'm saying is, that it's cool that more people have a chance for the shawl, but actually obtaining the fish for money making was made even less appealing than what it was (which it was not at all to begin with). The amount of lost bait is simply too high, and to get more is very time consuming, so one is not likely to sell them to people (what made me do this and actually level up fishing from 45 to 109 was to get the shawl to my friend; I've never sold a single matsya).

I guess what I'm also trying to say is, I would hope they made them more... fishable... especially if they insist on dropping their worth over at the auction house. Of course, if they changed the bait, or via other means made them more useful, botters would flock over at them and reduce the price, be it NPC or AH, like they always do. :[

(I never did fish hakuryu, so I don't care much for that change, but it's still sad that lowering the NPC vendor price is all they will do to battle against that plague... rant rant ranty rant.)

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Originally Posted by Protey

To counter your claims, these fish existed before WoTG

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Some of those you listed have been used for guild points and/or the fish ranking (from which the latter can be argued to go towards skillupses, but still!).

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Originally Posted by Protey

To counter your claims, these fish existed before WoTG:

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All of those are for fish ranking, or guild points, except the gurnard. I forgot that existed.

Even adding the new fish to guild points would be nice. Anything to keep from getting tricorn as the point fish. (You need a key item for it to even bite, then you can only catch it in the newtpool, between midnight and 2 am. Since the ferry only goes through the newtpool at midnight every other day, that's 4 minutes out of every 2 hours it CAN bite, and with a 1/50~ bite rate.... WTF)

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Originally Posted by Louispv

All of those are for fish ranking, or guild points, except the gurnard. I forgot that existed.

Even adding the new fish to guild points would be nice. Anything to keep from getting tricorn as the point fish. (You need a key item for it to even bite, then you can only catch it in the newtpool, between midnight and 2 am. Since the ferry only goes through the newtpool at midnight every other day, that's 4 minutes out of every 2 hours it CAN bite, and with a 1/50~ bite rate.... WTF)

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Sazanbaligi is not used for fish ranking nor guild points.
Tavnazian Goby is not used for fish ranking nor for guild points.
Yayingbaligi is not used for fish ranking nor for guild points.
Turnabiligi is not used for fish ranking nor for guild points.