Future Weapon Skill Adjustments

Hello, everyone!

It’s been quite a while since Matsui mentioned about revamps to elemental weapon skills and I just wanted to make a follow-up post and mention that the development team is looking into adjustments not only for elemental weapon skills, but weapon skills as a whole.

With a few exceptions, we have been seeing that in high-level battles that there is a trend of only using powerful weapon skills such as those learned through merit points. Due to this we would like to increase the power and stat modifiers for all weapon skills, including relic, mythic, and empyrean, in order to expand the number of choices during battle.

We will be performing the adjustments to elemental weapon skills at the same time as the aforementioned adjustment, and once I have further details to share I will make another follow-up.
(Please also note that these adjustments will not be nerfing any existing weapon skills, so please don’t worry ;))

Hi Again Camate!!!

I have a brilliant suggestion for modifying the elemental weaponskills. I have one specific weaponskill in mind, actually; Cloudspillter. :-D
It would be nice if Cloudsplitter were made strong enough to split things other than clouds. How about adding magic damage to the 119 Farsha, and to give Beastmaster a nudge towards participating in end-game activity, give beastmaster more magic damage gear.

Thanks so much Camate! You're swell.

Sincerely,

A humble Beastmaster

Well, if we are talking about real, meaningful changes to weapon skills then the obvious 1st item on the list should be renaming "Chant du Cygne" to "Chant du Zorro".

Everything else is secondary.

Blade: Hi is already nice; gonna be even sweeter now I suppose^^ Good news.

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Originally Posted by Camate

With a few exceptions, we have been seeing that in high-level battles that there is a trend of only using powerful weapon skills

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Am I understanding this correctly?

The development team is shocked that people don't use weaker weaponskils?

Why would I choose to do a WS that does 500 damage when I have one that does 5000?

I want to see scourge actually make it to the show please and hook coronach up on damage side while we at it as well. Thanks!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Genoxd

Am I understanding this correctly?

The development team is shocked that people don't use weaker weaponskils?

Why would I choose to do a WS that does 500 damage when I have one that does 5000?

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I caught this also, made me LOL.

Also can melees get a apology for having mods like Modifiers: MND:40% ; CHR:40% really come on now your just trolling us..........

As was already expressed in the "Broken/useless BLU Magic" thread, every WS should have a point. How can the devs be so surprised that our battles turn out really shallow and we only use whatever WS does the most damage when they purposely make only 1 or 2 even remotely worth using in the first place?

Again, the solution is to adjust WS and give them different effects so that there's situations where I'd say, for example, "Oh, I'm fighting undead with a sword. I'll go with Seraph Blade. It does the most damage to undead. Hmm, but Shining Blade, while not QUITE as powerful, gives me a short Holy Circle effect after using it so I may want to use that to play more defensibly." etc, etc. As it stands now, TP (Tactical Points) is just a misnomer because there's nothing tactical about spamming the same thing over and over regardless of what happens throughout the flow of battle or what opponent you're facing. The devs should know there's something wrong with WS when they see us use nothing but Fast Blade until we learn Vorpal Blade.

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Originally Posted by Camate

(Please also note that these adjustments will not be nerfing any existing weapon skills, so please don’t worry ;))

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Yowza! I love the disclosure. If the developers start assuring us that certain things won't be nerfed, you'll save us a lot of stress (for example, instead of saying something will be / has been "adjusted," let us know whether it's been improved or nerfed; this update is a step in the right direction).

Could you give extra-special attention to some severely underpowered weapon skills such as Camlann's Torment?

Agreed. It makes sense for different WS to have different effects associated to them and not being restricted to just stronger basic physical stats and the oftentimes very puzzling TP modifiers. As long as they scale well as players increase in levels we should be finally able to viably use a more varied repertoire of tools.

One of the things I'd like the most is if actually Weapon Skill affected weapon skills in a much more meaningful than just the att and acc stats.

Edit >
As a RDM one of the things I'd always wished existed is having elemental weapon skills that lowered elemental resistance to the opposite element the way ninjutsu and Ancient magic do. Say I use Burning Blade on a mob, and it lowered their resistance to water depending on Sword skill level.

So maybe at the highest level it would double my Enwater damage for a short time (10 seconds maybe?)

And things like that.

There is great potential in adjusting weaponskills, but people will still only use the strongest or most useful one in any given situation. You need to just make it so those WSs change. For instance, give viable WSs with attack multipliers to each weapon. Status effect WSs should actually land on relevant content. Make a non-crit WS that is good with high buffs. Make a crit WS that is good in situations where you can get a good crit rate. Make a good elemental WS. Make a high FTP first hit ws for sneak attack. Etc etc.

Changing Geirskogul from AGI to STR would make it as good as Tachi Fudo is for Gungnir DRG. Make it happen please!

Will the adjustments apply to fellows and alter egos?

Making each WS relevant is a tall order but I think it would be amazing. Rather than every WS be more or less an upgrade of its predecessor(upgrades can still exist i.e Sturmwind ->Upheaval or Thunder Thrust->Raiden Thrust) however. But making Shield Break give a potent 50-60 eva down for 60 seconds, buffing Flat Blade to be as potent of a stun as Leg Sweep, Weapon Skills that ignore defense like Camlann's Torment ought to have a huge attack bonus as well(as weapon skills with large attack bonuses simply 'pierce defense' more than weapon skills that use TP to pierce defense. Eliminate attack and accuracy penalties on weapon skills unless the weapon skill is extremely potent.

Adjust the DMG rating of elemental WS and have their DMG based on a function of Skill Level. So say a Cloudsplitter's damage instead of being based on only DEX/MAB, adds a large amount of MDMG from Axe Skill. That way instead of Cloudsplitter dealing 400-500 damage, it can deal comparable Thunder damage to a Thunder V spell.

players already can use empyrean weapon skill via WoE quest, they can use mythic weapon skill too, may you guys let us use Relic weapons skill with diferent weapons please, they are oldest REM weapons and at this point i think we should be able to use thier weapons skill.

Thanks

If all relic/emp/mythic WS gave a decent aftermath but did less damage then people would vary their WS choices to get the aftermath initially, then go for a damage WS until aftermath wears. Unfortunately, in most cases, either the WS with a decent aftermath is the best, so it just gets spammed repeatedly, or the WS is weak and so is the aftermath, so it's not even worth using, ever.

The only real way to get a good balance is by adding unique buffs and de-buffs to each weaponskill, and allowing these buffs to stack with other similar ones. EG. allowing slow from Ukko's Fury to stack with both elegy and enfeebling magic slow, would make it worthwhile using Ukko's over Upheaval occasionally. Making them stack with other buffs is essential to prevent enfeeblers from being removed from the game entirely.

Allowing DA/TA/QA procs to use the same Ftp as the original hit could offer more WS choices for using with Warrior's Charge and Assassin's charge, causing them to be a better option than just a low FTP muliti-hit WS when the timer is up.

I'm sure that there are other ways to make varying your WS worthwhile, but it has to be done right, otherwise, as Byrth said, people will just find the best WS for the gear available, and stick with it, just like they do now.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

Changing Geirskogul from AGI to STR would make it as good as Tachi Fudo is for Gungnir DRG. Make it happen please!

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Ha ha I just saw this - first reply on JP thread same topic:

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Originally Posted by Draupnir

最近では使われなくなったWSに再び使う機会が訪れそうで嬉しいお知らせ。
メリポWSにメリポを振っていなくてもジョブが出せるようになる日も近いですね。

ただ、一つ、とてもとても個人的なお願いが。。
ステータス補正を引き上げるのもいいのですが、ステータス補正そのものを見直しはないでしょうか？
特に、ゲイルスコグルのAGIが気になります。
おそらくグングニルの設定上そうなったのだろうと思いますが、投げるのにも力を使うのでSTRに・・・

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However, one can ask a very, very personal. .
You raise the status correction also is good, but I think the review status correction itself?
In particular, AGI of Geirusukoguru will care.
I think it would have become so set on Gungnir probably, in STR since they use force, even to throw ...

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I think it would be reasonable to point out a discrepancy i feel their is with r/m/e.
Gonna try to make this short as possible so forgive me ahead of time. All three weapons have some sort of aftermath/weaponskill. There is a third trait they share but only two of the three share it and that is that their respective weaponskill performs best on said legandary weapon. Glad to see this thread and look foward to the changes you will be making.



p.s. imo the hieracy of weapons should be Mythic > Empyrean > Relic. I know the amount of effort has changed in the ilvl increase they received but i think that order has been the most consistent not baring the evil empire dynamis days.

I always found it strange that no elemental WSes grew in strenght as you leveled up. It would at least have made a bit of sense to give the WSes 1 MAB per skill level above the level you learned it at, or something like that,

I sort of wish we could just have the FFXIV TP system and have different WSes cost different amounts and not empty our bar... That would allow us to be more tactical with which WS we use and maybe we could even start coordinating skill chains again because we wouldn't just be wasting TP and lowering our damage.

Is atonement going to be contained within these adjustments? While 750 might of seemed like a reasonable figure back in the day at this point in the game, its pretty much nothing.
Especially to those currently looking forward to doing Mythic kills :)

I am very please to hear this. I hope you carefully look into 1 hit weapon skill on many job because they often miss a lot on high level content. Please make it so that it has more accuracy or make it not miss at all and as of now Multiple hit weapon skills are in lead of damage. I'm sure it really suck for most sam to ws Fudo + Fudo and see it both miss or only 1 of the fudo land and the other miss.

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Originally Posted by Olor

I sort of wish we could just have the FFXIV TP system and have different WSes cost different amounts and not empty our bar... That would allow us to be more tactical with which WS we use and maybe we could even start coordinating skill chains again because we wouldn't just be wasting TP and lowering our damage.

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Yeah, I wouldn't even mind if the really good ones got more expensive. Let Smash axe cost 20 tp since it's basically just a stun, Bora axe cost 80 since it's okay damage and bind, rampage 120 and ruinator 150. At least then you don't have to devote an entire party slot to stuns.

Honestly the best way to fix elemental Ws's though is the flaming crush method. Right now only Magic attack bonus and the stats mods which are always terrible affect them. (Cloudsplitter for instance is 1 for 1. Each STR or MND adds... 1 damage) But flaming crush is 2 melee hits, then a magic hit. So normal melee stats enhance it just like any other WS. Getting a higher base damage strengthens it, crits, double attack, etc strengthen it, and the MAB gear none of these jobs have access to also does it.

That way it scales with level and is half useful for enemies with high defense or Physical damage taken-. And that way you don't have to readjust them a year from now when the item level cap increases, because the stronger weapons and gear makes the ws's stronger already.

Can we please see a good adjustment for atonement Weapon skill?

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Originally Posted by Olor

I sort of wish we could just have the FFXIV TP system and have different WSes cost different amounts and not empty our bar... That would allow us to be more tactical with which WS we use and maybe we could even start coordinating skill chains again because we wouldn't just be wasting TP and lowering our damage.

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This is actually the reason why I didn't like XIV. I played as an ARC/BRD in the game.....have been spamming the same bow skills since I started. I know the variety in XI is about the same in XIV but at least your ability to take your time with your abilities linked up with your skill to play instead of "Ok I use this one, this one , and this one, and repeat every 3 seconds the same skills"

It probably doesn't make sense to how I'm putting it, but to me I can play XIV blind folded if a boss could last long enough and I didn't have to move for its AoE attacks.

This could actually be quite good; for instance, if they increase the modifiers near merit ws numbers, they could indeed be a serviceable (Perhaps more powerful) option ; notably the critical hit weaponskills.

But yes, I second the bst whom referenced cloudsplitter, nice looking ws, wish I could use it more :(

WHich is the boost for Insrugency, Coronach exactly? they look exactly same on post and our current modifiers, ascetic fury got exactly same stats but you added attack bonus, for insurgency and coronach nothing was changed, let us know if this a misake or forget to add it thanks

They said "mostly every weapon skill" would be changed. Not every weapon skill will receive a bonus. I imagine weapon skills which are already powerful like Coronach and Drakesbane won't be changed. Perhaps they're removing the attack penalty for Blade: Shun, Resolutionm Penta Thrust and Drakesbane but who knows?