ive lost all respect for SE

ive lost all respect for SE they have ignored monstrosity for 2 updates now both updates are of decent size so dont try to be a smart ass saying they are small updates:mad: ive only came back to final fantasy 11 for monstrosity but last two updates they have ignored it they have had a monthly update of 1 family per update untill recently really se get in the game and if theres any smart ass comments i will be deleting them from this thread

The biggest problem with monstrosity, and really every PVP mode they've added, is that there is pretty much no point in doing them. They're simply fun little mini games, and as much as I love monstrosity, the fact that there is no reason for most people to sink time into it means that 99% of the time there is literally no one doing it. Ballista has been dead for years-- But Monstrosity came out not long ago and it's already in it's death thralls.

Some suggestions that might increase Monstrosity potential:
-Making certain monster types drop certain items once defeated. The Rarer the monster, the rarer the item (and hopefully most useful). The reason this should be done is twofold: Players will spend time leveling to get the high tier monsters so that people can kill them to get the special items from them, and it will become a useful way to fill up monstrosity. For this to work, however, you'd need to ensure that the monster is actually attacking and trying to defeat the people trying to beat it-- Maybe you could just put a timer on attack delays so that you can't turn away for too long before it stops the fight. Likewise, you'd have to ensure they use the skills available; Maybe the more 'direct control' you have over the monster correlates to how active you are in the fight, and the less active you become the more the monster begins to take actions of it's own.
-If the above is implemented, actually put in useful items! Primarily, upgrade and augmenting items for ilvl gear. If this isn't done, no one will ever touch it. There is very little in the game that isn't ilvl or obtained from delves/skirmish that is worth having at max level. At the same time, everyone wants to upgrade their gear, and this would be a very fun way to organize your own battlefields to obtain them, instead of grinding AA2 and Delves into oblivion.
-Player vs Monipulator balance needs to be considered. I fought a friend who was a raptor in Buburimu and got completely decimated. It seems like I'd need an alliance in order to fight him, and that's only at level 30. While this can make sense for rarer or more unique monsters, it might be a bit much for a normal raptor type monster.
-More monsters, of course.
-A 99+ level zone would be pretty amazing, especially considering that most jobs miss out on useful stuff (including ilvl gear) being capped to 90

Currently there's a lot of issues with the system, even if I do find it very enjoyable. Maybe this is why SE has stopped updating the races, in an effort to correct it and get it up to par? I really hope so, because monstrosity is something I've wanted since 2005.

I believe they said they're working on the campaign-like content for monstrosity but its going to take awhile because of the UI part of it.

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Originally Posted by Mnejing

I believe they said they're working on the campaign-like content for monstrosity but its going to take awhile because of the UI part of it.

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Ah, that would also help Monstrosity. The new UI does look interesting, and we all know FFXI needs it.

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Originally Posted by Dreadix

ive lost all respect for SE they have ignored monstrosity for 2 updates now both updates are of decent size so dont try to be a smart ass saying they are small updates:mad: ive only came back to final fantasy 11 for monstrosity but last two updates they have ignored it they have had a monthly update of 1 family per update untill recently really se get in the game and if theres any smart ass comments i will be deleting them from this thread

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You're not the only one who is disappointed, but throwing a fit isn't going to help. Others have asked them about content updates for Monstrosity and the devs basically said "It's coming, be patient." and that's just what you gotta do. If the wait's too long, then just find something else to do.

On the flip side though, I liked how the response to the survey for Monstrosity was "I am completely surprised that barely anyone cares about this event." I'd like to try to shed a little light on what that reason may be:

Player A: "Hey, I see you're really into that monster event, is it fun?"
Player B: "Yeah, it's awesome! You should try it too!"
Player A: "Maybe I will, what stuff can you do as a monster?"
Player B: "You level up all of your monsters you like old school style."
Player A: "Ooh, can we team up and go depopulate the dunes?"
Player B: "Nah, they haven't added that yet."
Player A: "So is there like a BCNM or something you can fight bosses when you're done leveling?"
Player B: "Nope, they haven't added that yet either."
Player A: "Do you get special gear or something for your moghouse at least?"
Player B: "No they haven't done anything like that."
Player A: "Well, sorry Player B, I don't really see a reason to try it right now, maybe when they add more stuff."

Then there's a part of that hypothetical conversation where Player B convinces Player A to try belligerency, and Player A ends up taking time out of their day to donate some delicious free infamy to Player B. I'm sure everyone knows that part of it by now, though.

I too am disappointed in the lack of a Monstrosity update for May.
I was hoping for new monsters/families, and more areas we can access.
Edited to add: I forgot to say it would be nice to party with others also to ease the grind.

The PVP needs to be balanced for solo vs solo - no one is gonna party up for that noise, and uncapped. No one is going to want to keep a level 90 gear set just for monstrosity.

Either that or just make the PVP MON vs MON.

I'd also like to note they need to do something so I don't have to remove my belligerence flag in order to enter dynamis. I'm not putting it back on until they fix it.

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Originally Posted by Olor

The PVP needs to be balanced for solo vs solo - no one is gonna party up for that noise, and uncapped. No one is going to want to keep a level 90 gear set just for monstrosity.

Either that or just make the PVP MON vs MON.

I'd also like to note they need to do something so I don't have to remove my belligerence flag in order to enter dynamis. I'm not putting it back on until they fix it.

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They can't make it uncapped. There is no way for a level 99 monster to ever even touch a 119 player, and the solo 119 player will bring the 99 monster down in less than a minute. Yet again, the item level system has screwed us over. They'd have to make the level cap for monstrosity 140 and let us grind it out in Ulbuka to even have a chance, but then you would get absolutely nothing but slightly higher stats for 41 damned levels, because none of the real jobs go beyond level 99.

The only way you're ever going to see PVP in Monstrosity is Monster VS Monster, which makes it insane that this hasn't been added yet. A giant battlefield thing might be cool, but for 1 vs 1 fights in belligerency, all they have to do is make it so monipulators in belligerence are the same as gladiators, and bam awesome cerberus vs adamantoise duels all over the place! You could have someone do that right now, this afternoon, and stick it into this month's update.

As far as keeping up with ilvl players goes, I don't see why they couldn't just add an instinct set that functions like ilvl gear. Something like when you hit 99 you talk to one of the skull NPCs and unlock an instinct set that says something along the lines of "If level 99: [Holy mackerel! Look at those stats!]" and then just add a system where you get the lowest leveled one and build up to the highest.

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Originally Posted by DarkBEWD

As far as keeping up with ilvl players goes, I don't see why they couldn't just add an instinct set that functions like ilvl gear. Something like when you hit 99 you talk to one of the skull NPCs and unlock an instinct set that says something along the lines of "If level 99: [Holy mackerel! Look at those stats!]" and then just add a system where you get the lowest leveled one and build up to the highest.

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A) I don't think you understand how powerful 119 characters are. 6 of them take down enemies with more than a million HP in a couple minutes. These instincts would have to add hundreds of thousands of HP, thousands of evasion and defense, etc. and hundreds of base stats, PER INSTINCT, in order to stand any chance. And even then it'd be pure base stats, since you'll only have abilities and spells the player jobs have. No aga IV's or aga Vs, no massacre elegy, no damage immunities, no auras, no using 1 hour abilities every 20 seconds that monsters have to be able to do to even be a challenge.

B) They would run into the same problem BLU has. You could equip maybe 2 of them and run out of points.

C) It's impossible that SE would balance it properly. Literally impossible. One side or the other would always be at a massive disadvantage, because the variables are just too big to be controlled for. And then it'd be even more impossible when item level stuff above 119 comes out. They can't balance 22 jobs against actual game content properly, how are they going to balance what are essentially hundreds of new jobs against each other?

D) You'd then make all of the old instincts entirely worthless. So why ever level anything but that one monster you wanted to use?

E) Do you really want to grind all these monsters to 99, then have to do whatever obscene grind to get item level 119 instincts require, too? Because if I have to level Frog to 90 to get 20% Haste, what is HP+600% DEF+900, STR, DEX, and AGI+150 going to require?

F) Monstrosity would destroy any zone anyone played it in, since a monster that could rival 119 players could fight every enemy in an entire zone, at once, and win with 0 effort. The griefing would be game breaking. It'd have to be a separate instance like Diorama. Which means you'd just have to sit there, doing nothing, in an empty zone, waiting for other players. No exping, no sneak attacks, no strategy, no hiding, no big zone to chase your enemy through, just sit and wait, and wait some more because there'll never be any useful rewards from it.

Also SE doesn't make new instances anyway, they just reuse old ones. Especially not for silly minigames. It takes a full, paid for, expansion to get a couple new ones made. So it just wouldn't happen at all.

Level capped though, 6 players vs a monster of equal level with 6 times a player's stats, or two equally matched monsters. Bingo, bango, fair fight.

If monstrosity is what made you lose all respect for SE, I don't think you've been paying attention for a long while.

Updates to Monstrosity mean a lot to me too, but I'm sorry to say the majority of the playerbase don't rely on Monstrosity updates. If the question is between Wardrobe and Monstrosity, Wardrobe means more, same with if it involves Job Points, or other things new to the system. Monstrosity has a lot of races, a lot of instincts, there's content still to do and unless it's literally all you've done you're unlikely to have finished it all. Am I saying it doesn't need updates? No, it does, parties and MvM as well as adjustments in general and new races to play are all needed to keep it going, but it's far from forgotten or ignored. Going 2 updates without adjustments to it isn't a sign of abandonment, as it was said in the OP we had consistent updates the last few months. The last 2 updates were large, but be fair, they added a lot of new things system wise such as the Job Point system and the new Wardrobe system which is unique system wise. I can see why they may have pulled the team away from Monstrosity for a bit, or it's also possible the Monstrosity team has taken this time to pull back from creating new families, having gotten out the primary 7, and are now trying to work in the special mobs which use TP moves for normal attacks such as Harpia that have been left out thus far.

Either way, cut them some slack, we've had updates every month for a bit, missing out on 2 isn't the end of the world.

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Originally Posted by Louispv

Valid concerns & arguments.

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A & C) One thing I don't think some players account for is that despite the many gimmicks used to challenge players in boss fights, all of those bosses are A.I. with predictable patterns and most if not all can be/are easily dealt with by designating one or up to a handful of people to distract it while you apply the cheese appropriately. The potential power and challenge of a player controlled boss is experience/knowledge of the game, adaptability, and the freedom to use abilities and make decisions in a way that the tactics you use against A.I. bosses fall mostly, if not completely flat on their face. There is also the factor that, in time, with a wide enough selection of instincts, a player can constantly rebuild their boss monster to fit whatever strategies enemy players commonly use to take them down and then try to overcome them. I believe all that is required to kick things off successfully right now, is a way to set Monipulators and Adventurers on equal footing by allowing Adventurers to use their gear without having to bog their inventory with lower level sets, but allowing Monipulators to scale up to the current level that Adventurers are at in a relatively simple way. I know I suggested an instinct set, but really, that's just me throwing one idea out there, it could be that, a one-time Monipulator limit break, Monipulator Atmas, a set of ilvl capped belligerency zones that scale monsters to various caps, you name it, all that matters is that it's at least looked into.

B, D & E) IF my instinct suggestion WERE used (remember now, it's just a suggestion), my idea would be to make it basically a "one size fits all" type of deal like the job based instincts, but you only get one, which would look something like "Limit Break Instinct I - If Level 99: Monipulator Level 104 - Cost: 15."
Then you'd be able to replace/upgrade it with new ones until you end up with "If Level 99: Monipulator Level 119 - Cost: 15" and it essentially would function like the SMN pouches that invisibly scale your stats/give you basic traits to be on par with an average/typical/medium difficulty end game boss at that level, then you'd be able to fill out the rest of your stats with other instincts to suit your needs.

F) Adventurers can/have already created this problem, with ilvl players turning up in a zone to train all of the mobs and one shot them with Stonega without regard for anyone else trying to EXP/farm there, leaving others to wait until they're done or move elsewhere. The only difference is that, Adventurers actually have content to go do to keep them occupied enough so they don't find the time to go troll people trying to level up.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong, MONs are WAY MORE POWERFUL than players. Ilevel might bring them to 1 on 1 chances. If MONS can't compete they could add some instincts comparable - but our ilevel gear doesn't have that much stats on it, really. I mean yeah maybe 100+ here or there and better base damage - but I've played as a MON and they are WAY STRONGER than comparable players of their level, even without good instincts. I can do stuff as a MON I could never do as a player.

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Originally Posted by Olor

I'm sorry, but you're wrong, MONs are WAY MORE POWERFUL than players. Ilevel might bring them to 1 on 1 chances. If MONS can't compete they could add some instincts comparable - but our ilevel gear doesn't have that much stats on it, really. I mean yeah maybe 100+ here or there and better base damage - but I've played as a MON and they are WAY STRONGER than comparable players of their level, even without good instincts. I can do stuff as a MON I could never do as a player.

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I know you just returned to the game and are therefore still 99ish, but you're just incorrect. A player in 119 cannot be touched by any level 99 monster. Even on jobs with terrible evasion, 99 monsters have floored accuracy and hit for less than 30 damage a swing when they do hit. And all the magic evasion and MDB on the armor means you don't even have to worry about spells anymore, since the 5% of them that aren't resisted do only a couple hundred damage. And that's before protect and shell, or other buffs.

And offense wise, my PLD, wearing full defensive gear with no DD gear, has 1k attack after food. My MNK after food, gear, buffs, and abilities has 1800 attack. Does your monipulator have the 4500 defense needed to floor that damage? While actually being able to hit and hit for damage too?

At 99 most monipulators will have 20k hp or so unless you're really going for an HP build. That's about 10 seconds for any competent DD job at 119. Heck if Level ? Holy procced on you with a good number you might be one shotted by a SMN. It's no contest, even solo a 119 player wouldn't even notice that fight. They wouldn't even need to heal afterwards. Six players would steamroll hundreds of 99 monipulators. It's level capped, raise the max level for monipulators to 140, or nothing.

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Originally Posted by DarkBEWD

F) Adventurers can/have already created this problem, with ilvl players turning up in a zone to train all of the mobs and one shot them with Stonega without regard for anyone else trying to EXP/farm there, leaving others to wait until they're done or move elsewhere. The only difference is that, Adventurers actually have content to go do to keep them occupied enough so they don't find the time to go troll people trying to level up.

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A Player can round up everything in a camp and kill it

A Monipulator that could fight 6 119 players could round up everything in the entire zone and hold it literally forever. Just hit them all with a single AoE to screw everyone who'd pull them off you out of exp, and the entire zone is closed until your internet cuts out. Doubly so if you pulled them all to a far corner no one visits, or behind a reive no one does.

I think you're underestimating the power of the monsters we can play as. I won't say you could do it without a ton of specific instincts, but to say solo 119s would destroy a level 99 Monster so easily? I doubt it. Sea Monk 1 is very easy to obtain, it alone is +3% Accuracy, assuming it works without any caps or anything like that, at 99 you could probably stack enough Accuracy instincts to hit a level 119 character without much issue when you count in amazing ones like Pugil 3 with +35 Accuracy or DRG with +40. After that stacking some simple Attack instincts would help crack the defense of a level 119, it's not easy either, but Behemoth 1, Gnole 3, WAR, DRK, they could crack a 119 wide open, especially if using one of the monsters with higher attack or a powerful berserk. As for combating the defense issue, you'd only need Wivre 1, Uragnite 2, and Crab 3, and you'd have enough defense to put up at least some resistance against a 119's attack. Adding up the amount of points for the things I just listed, you're looking at a cost of 97, easily do-able for a Lv.99 Monster. Add in Toad 3 for capped Haste basically and maybe a few extras on the side, and you're looking at a hard to get but very possible setup for 119s.

I don't mean to say that it's reasonable nor easy, and any party of 119 DDs would crush you yeah, but I'm just saying a single 119 wouldn't cut it if you did things right. Needing level 140 though, that's just not even reasonable from a balance standpoint in all honesty, at that point no level of 119 gear would come close to stopping us especially when you add in EVA & DEF instincts we can stack while players can't gearswap.